The Instigator
Occisionis
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Thefightforfreedom
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

It is possible to eliminate the national debt for the U.S.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/15/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 335 times Debate No: 77705
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

Occisionis

Pro

It is possible using these steps:

1. Move the national capital to a small village.

2. Hold a referendum to separate the rest of the country from the new capital and win it to create a new country.

3. The new country has no debt, since the national debt belongs to the old one. Wait until the old country goes bankrupt.

4. Once the old country settled its accounts with the creditors, invade it and annex it.

5. Repeat for an infinite national fund.
Thefightforfreedom

Con

I have spoken to my opponent in the comments asking if I can debate that "we the people" don't in fact have any responsibility to the national debt, and that only a small group of individuals do. He said he agreed so I will begin.

Contracts and receipts
In order for a party to be held accountable for any kind of debt for services there must be a contractual agreement Where both parties understand all the terms and agreements. For example, I sign a contract with the phone company Verizon. They provide a service, I pay a monthly fee outlined in the terms and agreements. Now lets look at this the other way. Verizon sends me a bill out of the blue, stating I owe a debt of $300 to them. I never signed a contract stating to receive services for a fee. If I go to court, I would win as I never signed a contract. Even if verizon leaves a service in a house on for a previous owner of lets say a house, and I move in, if I use the phone or internet services unknowing who even provides these services, I am not held responsible as I never signed a contract.
Now lets look at this with the national debt in mind. The u.s. government claims taxes are needed for the services it provides. Yet there is no contract signed, nor consent given by any person in a town. If consent were to be given, legally speaking, records of who is giving consent would need to be kept. In the form of written contracts or receipts of services. Since nobody in the average given town in the u.s. has given consent to us there money for "public services" like roads, police, fire, emergency personnel etc, these services are paid with stolen money. Now for anyone to argue that a government has the right to tax because the people vote for it, I have an argument to make.
We claim the powers of the government a granted by the people. Using logic and reason, taxation falls flat. lets look at an example. I see a man and ask him for a dollar. He says no. I then take a dollar from him anyway. This is theft. So is it morally ok if I and 3 people take a dollar from the man if he says no still? Nope, still theft. What if 10 people SAY it is ok for I and 3 other people to take the dollar from the man even if he says no. It is still theft. So nobody has the power to take money from someone without consent. So how can anybody give this power to take money without consent if nobody ever had the power to give in the first place? The law holds, and reason declares, we cant.
Voting
So the u.s. government claims to represent the people residing in this country. We voted for the people in office and they do things on our behalf right? Which means we would be held responsible for the debt. This is completely untrue. All voting is done by secret ballot. There is no way of knowing Who actually voted for a person to represent them. So for someone to say, "I represent all the people of the united states" is logically false. First, lets look at the 2012 presidential elections. 131 million people voted. That is less than half of the population. So the second he/she says all, he/she is not telling the truth. At most he/she can say, is that he/she represents the people who voted for him/her. However, we don't know who voted for him/her so we cant know who he/she represents. Second, what about the other half that didn't vote? The only thing that we can logically assume is that they don't want a president representing them.
To say NOT voting means one does not care who represents them is simply irrational. One cannot say he/she speaks for me if I never gave my consent to do so. Imagine the fraud that would occur if the world WAS like that. Therefore there is only one way for a government to do any of this. That is force. According to law and reason, no court would uphold a contract that a party signed under duress. However, because this group of people run the courts, this is all rigged which would mean it is immoral. Yet this does not imply that we are RESPONSIBLE to pay this debt the u.s. government has created. It simply means in the very REAL sense that a group of thugs called the u.s. government will at gunpoint if necessary, force "we the people" to pay. Once again, this does not mean that the debt is ours. The debt is theirs and for example it is no different what they are doing, than a man who points a gun at you for money because he owes a betting bookie a debt.
Debate Round No. 1
Occisionis

Pro

Occisionis forfeited this round.
Thefightforfreedom

Con

Still waiting on PRO...
Debate Round No. 2
Occisionis

Pro

Occisionis forfeited this round.
Thefightforfreedom

Con

Thefightforfreedom forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Occisionis

Pro

Occisionis forfeited this round.
Thefightforfreedom

Con

Thefightforfreedom forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Occisionis

Pro

Occisionis forfeited this round.
Thefightforfreedom

Con

Thefightforfreedom forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Occisionis 1 year ago
Occisionis
That's fine.
Posted by Thefightforfreedom 1 year ago
Thefightforfreedom
I would like to accept the debate on the premise that we the people don't have a national debt. Only a small group of people do. Let me know if you want me to accept.
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