The Instigator
olivermeredithcox
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Freeman
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

It should be against school rules for a pupil or member of staff to wear any religious dress

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Freeman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/16/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,174 times Debate No: 9712
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (2)

 

olivermeredithcox

Con

I have two points to put forth for my first argument; My first concerns how variety is good for society and for children, and the second concerns human rights and religion's relation to them.

Firstly, variety is good. Put simply. We don't want to have children in and having left our schools to be regular uninteresting carbon-copies of each other. We want to have variety within schools and within society. Variety makes things more interesting, and enriches the lives of people to whom it is exposed.
We are supposed to live in a multi-cultural society. One of the founding principles of prejudice, which threatens to destroy that society, is ignorance. My point being that if we expose our children to religion in schools, if we show them the nature of what exists, they will have the experience and will be less ignorant and therefore hold less prejudice.
Variety makes society a better and more interesting place, and allowing religious freedom within schools should be the paving for a varied multi-cultural society.

Secondly, human rights. In the UN declaration of the rights of a child it is stated that children have the right to worship and to express their religion. Put quite simply, if these rules were to be enforces we would be going against this declaration, something it would be unwise to consider.
On a less legislative note, should we be taking peoples away, even if it were perfectly legal and not in contravention of any human rights declarations? The answer is no, the moment you take away a freedom, is one when to chip away yet another of the freedoms allotted to a human beings in the world today. We, should, be free to express our religions on the street most certainly, and quite in the opinion of the opposition, in the school scene.

And there you have it, how the sanctity of variety, and the un-assailable nature of human rights make it thoroughly immoral for the religious freedom of children to be taken away from the school setting.
Freeman

Pro

My opponent has left this debate pretty wide open so my argument will focus on public schools and teachers in particular. Teachers are members of the staff so this contention is legitimate. Having established that this debate will only be concerned with them and not with students at private schools. Consequentially, my opponent's first two arguments are rendered irrelevant because it is unconstitutional for public school teachers to wear religious costumes. Public school teachers don't have the freedom to wear religious costumes to school any more than they have the freedom to take their clothes off at the Olive Garden.

Contention 1: A Public school teacher wearing a religious outfit to school violates the establishment clause.

What exactly comprises a religious costume? Well, in order for any costume or dress to be considered religious it has to represent a certain religion in some conspicuous manner. The costume cannot merely be something that certain groups of religious people often wear; it has to symbolize the religion in some significant sense.

Here are a couple costumes that do just that.

Catholic priest http://www.abc.net.au...

Jewish Rabbi http://www.oliviamunn.com...

Islamic Mullah http://smma59.files.wordpress.com...

Buddhist Monk http://zoltantakacs.com...

In order for a religious costume to really count as a religious costume it must be conspicuous, because it must meaningfully represent a certain religion in some way. Wearing any religious costume is therefore a conspicuous display of a certain religion that in some way promotes the religion of its origin. Therefore by public school teachers wearing these costumes they violate the establishment clause, because by wearing them they would be tacitly promoting a religion while acquiring taxpayer's money. [1] Moreover, we can expose students to various other cultures or religions by providing them with world religions classes that never seek to promote any one particular point of view.

Contention 2: Children should be free from the religious influence of teachers at public schools.

Even if we were to go outside of the United States to someplace like the UK the essence of my argument would remain the same. Children are young and vulnerable and they shouldn't be bombarded with overtly religious symbols from their teachers while they are in school. They should be encouraged to think for themselves while being free from any kind of religious promotion.

=========
Conclusion:
=========

Let me take a minute to address the religious people that may be reading this debate. I haven't completely dismissed the idea of becoming a teacher, although if I did I would want to teach at a university. However, if I did teach in a public school would you want me to wear this? http://liberal-debutante.com... I didn't think so. If religious people can keep their religious costumes at home we will keep our irreligious costumes out of school also. (Resolution affirmed.)

Sources:

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Best,
Freeman
Debate Round No. 1
olivermeredithcox

Con

olivermeredithcox forfeited this round.
Freeman

Pro

Hmm.... very interesting

Extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
olivermeredithcox

Con

olivermeredithcox forfeited this round.
Freeman

Pro

Extend my arguments and vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by olivermeredithcox 7 years ago
olivermeredithcox
Sorry everyone, and freeman especially. My dad had some awkward stuff going in a group he's in, and I've not been able go go online. Would Freeman like to restart the debate with our initial arguments and add other rounds?
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
Oops, I meant to vote earlier. My vote defaults to you, Pro, but this is due to forfeits alone. I was rather unimpressed by your arguments, but I'm sure they would have tightened up down the road =D
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
Someone please vote...

My opponent forfeited two rounds.
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
If someone could read the debate and then vote that would be appreciated.
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
"CON argued about teachers, while PRO only argued concerning teachers. Fail."

What exactly does that mean?
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
CON argued about teachers, while PRO only argued concerning teachers. Fail.
Posted by olivermeredithcox 7 years ago
olivermeredithcox
Me, well just more moderate, I like to argue against my own opinion. I do think that people should be free to wear whatever they want in public. But If the school rules state that a person should not wear jewelry for example, religion should not a a get-out. However, in a school with no uniform, religious people should not be discriminated against.
Posted by Freeman 7 years ago
Freeman
I wont disappoint.
Posted by Volkov 7 years ago
Volkov
Jaques Chirac and Nicolas Sarkozy: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Posted by Danielle 7 years ago
Danielle
Who in their right mind would be Pro on this issue?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by wonderwoman 7 years ago
wonderwoman
olivermeredithcoxFreemanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
olivermeredithcoxFreemanTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07