It was a mistake for Germany to take in 1million migrants.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk... According to the European Union Commission 60% of the migrants coming to Europe seeking refugee status in 2015, were economic migrants from North Africa and were not fleeing war. "More than half of the people now coming to Europe come from countries where you can assume they have no reason whatsoever to ask for refugee status. More than half, 60 per cent." Said Frans Timmermans, the European Commission"s First Vice-President, in an interview with the Dutch Broadcast Foundation (NOS). http://www.independent.co.uk...
72% of the migrants in Europe are men, 15% are women and only 13% are children. http://ec.europa.eu... 2. Education. German school children will be forced to share class rooms with children who do not speak German, many of whom, depending on their country of origin can't read or write. For example, 79% of Syrians population before the war was illiterate. In other Middle Eastern and North African areas, literacy rates are also low. Last year, the German interior minister announced his plan to drop educational standards to accommodate for the migrants. This means a lesser quality education for Germans. 3. Culture. Taking in 1million people in a year, all from very different cultures, is cultural suicide. In other European countries Migrants from the Middle East and Africa usually don't assimilate but set up their own ghettos to live in. 4. Standards of living. Figures from the European Commission show that people in cities with the most migrants claim to have the worst standard of living. http://www.dailymail.co.uk... 5. Crime. There is an epidemic of crime done by people with immigrant backgrounds (mostly Middle Eastern or North African) in Europe. Since Sweden opened its doors to immigrants in 1975, rape rose 1,400% with 6,620 sexual assaults being reported to police in 2014 compared to 421 in 1975. Sweden is the rape capital of the west. In Sweden, 77% of rapists have an immigrant background even though they are less than 10% of the population. In 2014, Swedish police released a list of 55 "no go zones," mostly Muslim ghettos, where law enforcement and ambulance workers are at risk being attacked. When Australian 60 Minutes TV program came to the suburb of Rinkeby in Stockholm, which has many immigrants they were attacked.https://www.youtube.com.... In Denmark people with an immigrant background, who make up less than 10% of the population, commit 50% of rapes. In Oslo, Norway, half of rapes and 100% of aggravated rapes in 2011 were done by people of African, Middle Eastern or Asian descent, even though they are 1.per cent of the population. http://www.optula.om.fi... A 2014 study by the University of Helsinki law department found that African migrants are 16 times more likely to rape than native Finns, and migrants from North Africa and the Middle East were more than 17 times more likely to rape than Native fins. Immigration has tremendously risen crime in other European countries and there is a migrant crime wave in Germany now, so it seems like Germany is going down the same path as Sweden, Finland, Norway and all the other countries which have been devastated by migrant crime. In February 2016 a report by Germany"s Federal Criminal Police Agency showed that refugees committed over 208,344 crimes between 2014 and 2015
http://www.breitbart.com... In January 2016, a social worker working in an asylum center in Hamburg spoke out about the way the majority of migrants she was working with treated her and her colleagues. According to her 90% of the migrants were unpleasent. They sexually harassed her and her colleges, gave them death threats and were very aggressive and sexist. In another case, Ercan Yasaroglu, a social worker in Cologne Germany told Focus magazine that 70 percent of migrants are engaging in drug abuse, theft and violence.
Here are some examples of migrant violence in Germany. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org...
Here are some more examples of migrant violence in Germany. A lot of my sources are from conservative and libertarian websites, but they contain links to the original German language sources and videos, so you can get unbiased accounts of the incidents. In September supporters of Turkish nationalism descended into violence when they clashed with rival Kurdish separatists http://www.breitbart.com...
According to chiemgau24.com. an argument broke out near ta railway station in Bavaria between migrants gangs. During the confrontation a migrant pulled a knife and held it to the throat of one of the locals before another local stepped in and hit the migrant.http://www.breitbart.com...
In November, a nineteen year-old girl at Magdeburg University became the fourth gang rape victim by refugees in the town, within a month. http://www.infowars.com...
By last fall, the town of Ellwagen Germany was destroyed by migrants who killed pets, raped women, sexually harassed girls, robbed stores and dealt drugs in the playground. Here is part of a post a friend of a resident of Elwagen wrote on facebook. "I live in Germany and a lady who lives over here in a town of 3,000 posted on FB that they got about 650 refugees. Within two weeks they had seven attempted rapes, cats and dogs disappeared and shop lifting was remarkably on the rise. In the local playground refugees hang around drinking alcohol and dealing drugs. The mayor of the town has apparently instructed the police not to take any refugees to the police station but to let them go instead"" http://www.infowars.com...
Last fall, a fight between Christian and Muslim migrants in an asylum center resulted in three hospitalizations. http://www.breitbart.com...
Last fall,a 24 year-old Syrian migrant attacked several in Mittweida, Saxony, Germany. He molested one women, than attempted to rape another women. http://www.breitbart.com...
A hospital in Sigmaringen, Germany was forced to hire security guards after migrants physically attacked nurses while receiving healthcare, several times according to Schwbische.de. http://www.infowars.com...
And of course, the Cologne sex attacks. In Cologne Germany on New Years Eve gangs of North African and Middle Eastern men sexually assaulted almost 1000 women.http://edition.cnn.com... was an instance of taharush, a game in the Arab world where men surround lone women and assault them, in crowded places. CBS reporter Lara Logan was a victim of Taharrush in 2011, while in Egypt covering the protests. http://www.cbsnews.com...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk... Similar attacks happened in Stuttgart, Hamburg, Dussendorf and Frankfurt.
Also on New Years Eve, 2 German teenage girls were raped by three Syrian migrants. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...
In Dortmund Germany, two transgender women were attacked by North African migrants. http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
In Dortmund a group of men groped a woman and told her that German women are just for sex. http://www.express.co.uk...
In January, an 18 year old pregnant woman in Lbben Germany was attacked by 6 migrant men while walking down the street online.de/regionen/spreewald/luebben/Hochschwangere-Frau-von-Maennern-attackiert;art1058,5364609 http://www.infowars.com...
In Hannover, Rheda, an Algerian has been proven to have raped a 25 year old German women named Lara, by DNA evidence. Afterwords he asked her is she enjoyed it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk... 6. Terrorism. Letting in millions of people without properly screening them as Germany is doing increases the risk of terrorism. The Paris attackers had traveled to and from ISIS territory posing as refugees before the attacks.
My opponent begins this debate by giving 27 (!) sources supposed to portray refugee delinquency in Germany. She thus opens with a Gish Gallop, that is a torrent of small arguments impossible to answer to any satisfactory degree within the bounds of a/ this debate.
We can see this in the form she presents some of them:
“Here are some examples of migrant violence in Germany” (then proceeds to list two separate articles)
If I wanted to answer all of them individually, I would have less than 400 characters per article, not taking into account that I might want to present an argument myself. To put this into perspective, the above bit alone contains more characters than that.
Therefore, I will briefly deal with some of them at the same time and focus on more important points in greater detail. Her sources are numbered chronologically with 1)-27).
1. Reasons for migrating
3) Gender statistics are irrelevant. There is nothing inherently bad about 72% of refugees being male.
Germany’s Federal Agency for Migration and Refugees makes it pretty clear that the great majority of requests are issued by people from Syria, Afghanistan and Iran.
Here are this years numbers (1):
The political situation in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and Eritrea is such that it permits Section 16a GG of the German Basic Law, which states any politically persecuted person is entitled to political asylum (2), to come into effect. That is 81.5% not 40%.
Of course there are some from the Baltic States requesting asylum. However, since these countries among others have been classified as “safe countries” the chance of these requests being accepted is close to zero. The Daily Mail is not exactly known for accurate reports.
My opponent is not hesitant to cite more than a dozen anecdotes of violence, but when it comes to hard facts, like some policy or actual numbers, the citations are nowhere to be found.
Syria’s literacy rate from many years ago hardly matters at it is now that we are dealing with Syrian refugees. UNESCO reported that Syria’s literacy rate was at 86.4% in 2015, not 21% (3).
Concerning the issue of lower education standards, what many newspapers seem to ignore in their reports is the emphasis on this proposal’s improvised and short-lived nature. Nobody is planning to keep it that way. Further, until now it is not clear how this reduction will look like. In Germany there are generally 3 kinds of schools you can visit after elementary school, each with a different level of education. Since this policy’s aim only is to bring people faster in a position where they can get a job, it is not at all unreasonable to assume the highest and perhaps even the second highest tier of school graduation will be unaffected by this.
She has not justified this point in any way and “other European countries” are not Germany. My experience of everyday life has not changed in the slightest and my personal testimony is just as good as the testimony some of her sources got from Facebook (like source number 14)).
Even as a German, it is not clear to me what exactly this “German culture” is supposed to be.
4. Standards of living
The survey my opponent relies on was conducted by asking people on the street, not empirical data. Surveys like this are grossly inaccurate. For example, when people in France and Great Britain were asked how many Muslims live in their countries, the French said 31%, the British 21%. The actual numbers are 8% and 5% respectively (4). My opponent is not presenting any hard evidence here.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Norway are not Germany. What happens there is irrelevant to this debate unless my opponent can demonstrate the relation.
8) and 9) alone contain a total of 12 points and that’s just 2 of my opponents 27 sources. This debating style is ridiculous. Concerning 13), the mayor of Ellwangen allegedly ordered the police to not arrest refugees. What is the source of this claim? A Facebook post. I researched this claim in both English and German, but could not find anything to support it.
But there is something very important to note about sources like this, especially 8)-27): all of them present merely anecdotal evidence. More than a million people came to Germany, it would truly be a miracle if there were no criminals among them. To turn any of these reports into support for an argument, Pro has to show, not that more people commit more crimes (that should be obvious to anyone), but that the criminality among these people is significantly higher than among Germans. Say she lists 10,000 crimes committed by refugees. That may sound like a lot, but divided by a million people, that’s still just 1%. In other words, what she needs to do is deliver percentages not absolute numbers and the great majority of her sources don’t do that.
But I won’t deny that none of her sources talk about percentages, so let’s look at some of them in greater detail. Supposedly 90% of refugees are “unpleasant, liars and threaten to behead people” (5). That sounds horrible. But where does this number come from? They come from one social worker. Yes, a single one. No statistics, no empirical data, just what a single person testified he experiences.
Supposedly 70% of refugees engage in drug abuse, theft and violence. That sounds horrible. Where does this number come from? Again, a single non-authoritative person. No statistics, no empirical data, just, once again, a single person testifying his experience.
Surprisingly, Pro cites the Feb. 2016 report of Germany’s Federal Criminal Police Agency in support of her position. Let’s see what the report concludes (6) (7) (8):
She claims taking in so many refugees would increase the risk of terrorism, but does not justify this in any way. In all of history there have been a total of two people killed due to Islamist attacks (9), both of which were Americans. Compared to the death tolls of German right wing terrorism, that’s nothing. I won’t deny Germany’s high risk of being the target of a terrorist attack, but this risk has been high since long before the Syrian civil war.
2. Lowered standards will harm school kids and teens not matter how long they last. Plus Germany will have to take money and resources away from German school kids to give to migrants. Do you want this to happen? How will you guys teach all those people German and get them caught up?
3. Your experience of every day life is anecdotal evidence. You got on me for using dozens of anecdotal cases but you want to argue with just your own? Do you not understand what German culture is? Every country has a culture and/or sub cultures and so does Germany. The cultures the migrants are coming from is very different from yours. How can you possible assimilate 1million people a year from vastly different cultures? What will happen in otehr countries will very likely happen in Germany. Many of the migrants will create ghettos and even no go zones where they won't assimilate but will continue to practice their own cultures (some of which are bad). You'll probably get on me for saying that some of the cultures the migrants are coming from are bad. Some of them, not all, but some are.
4. Standard of living. Massive increase in crime, worsted education, different and some even regressive cultures will lower that.
5. http://www.express.co.uk... Figures from Germany's Federal Crime Office (BKA) show that in 2015 migrants committed 208,344 crimes (nearly 40,000 being violent) . This is 92,000 more crimes than they committed in 2014. The dramatic rise in crime is obviously because of the dramatic increase in the number of migrants who came in to Germany. 208,000 crimes by a population of 1 million. Do the math. The crime rate among migrants is extremely high. This does not mean that all migrants are criminals it means that there is a higher rate of criminality among them than other demographics. And if Germany allows 1 million more migrants in in 2016 crime will again rise dramatically.
The rate of migrant crime in Germany is not surprising when we consider the rate of migrant crime in other European countries. Considering the increase in crime caused by migration in other European countries and the high rate of migrant crime in Germany, it is obvious that Germany is going down a dangerous path.
6. Allowing in millions of people (mostly men) with out accurately screening them is a recipe for disaster. It will allow ISIS terrorists to travel to Europe. The Paris attackers for example went back and forth from Syria to Europe disguised as migrants. They killed 130 people. Is even that worth a risk?
1. Reasons for migrating
She does not object to what I said, but let’s look at her source and what she said. First of all, it is important to note that Syria is not the only country of origin that legitimizes asylum status. Secondly, the numbers she states represent that: 21% are from Syria, but only 60% are alleged to be economic refugees. Obviously that is just 81%. What are the other 19% supposed to be? Neither legitimate nor economic refugees?
These are the top three origin countries:
The top three countries alone make up 662,540 out of 1255,640 refugees. That is already 52,7%, not 40%.
“Germany will have to take money and resources away from German school kids to give to migrants.”
I had to read this twice. Is this actually supposed to be an argument? Countless people in non-industrial countries have to suffer daily so that we can sustain our lifestyle, but can’t spend a minuscule amount on people from less wealthy countries?
“Do you want this to happen?”
No, I don’t exactly want this to happen, but politics is not just about what you want to do and especially when such a humanitarian crisis is at hand, politics requires you to not only do what has the immediately best effect for the native population.
We don’t even know what these changes will look like, but to just assume it is somehow going to ruin Germany is ridiculous.
She misses the point of what I said entirely. I never claimed my experience to be superior to that of anyone else here. Nor did use it as an argument. I said my testimony is just as good as someone else’s to illustrate how ridiculous it is to rely to anecdotes.
Concerning German culture, she merely asserts that it, whatever it is, is going to change, presumably in a bad way of some sort. Well, then surely she is able to identify some part of my culture that will be lost. Stereotypes like Beer and pretzels hardly qualify as culture and values like the inviolability of human dignity hardly qualify as German culture. These are truths not only Germans take to be self-evident. I take this point very seriously, I really do, because it affects me personally. But as a German satirist once said, Germans are “proud to not be proud” of being German and as such I entirely fail to see what characteristic of the German lifestyle would be lost.
My opponent does not respond to my point, nor does she justify hers in any way. All she does is to reassert what she said in the first round.
Last round I presented the exact same figures myself and I “did the math”. The rise in crime is, as I’ve said, not at all “dramatic” once you realize refugees committed only 78% more crimes while their number increased by 440%. She talks about crime rates, but she never presented a crime rate. I did and to put it in the words of Uld Kuech, head of the CID Braunschweig, suspecting a great deal of refugees to be rapists and such is “absolute nonsense” (1) (my translation).
Most importantly, it is against the law to revoke asylum status based on criminality (2).
There have been multiple attempted terrorist attacks in Germany, yet none of them succeeded. In the entire history of mankind not a single German citizen died on German ground because of an Islamist attack. A second Paris would be horrible, but to deny a peaceful life to more than a million people, real humans, because of an unjustified and fringe probability is nothing more than ridiculous.
Yes, this is worth the “risk” any time.
Unless she delivers some numbers I don’t see the point in responding in any greater detail.
Your stats are about German's intake of migrants mine are about the migrants who came into all of Europe.
2. You don't understand how hard it is to assimilate and teach German to over 1 million people.
Why should Germany be forced to sacrifice its education, economy and safety for people who aren't eve refugees? The sacrifices are worth it for the actual refugees but not for the economic migrants. Most of the migrants are not part of some humanitarian crisis and according to the European Comission shouldn't be in Europe. Countries should worry about their own people before others.
3. Do you want sharia controlled no go zones in your country? Do you want rape to sky rocket? Hows that for ruining a culture. A lot of the people coming in have regressive views on women and will treat women all ready living there like second class citizens. Sweden has literally become the rape capital of the west due to immigration. There is a huge epidemic of migrant rape in Europe, which is obviously horrible for women. Do you want that to happen to Germany? Do you want German women to go through what Swedish women go through?
4. First post.
5. 40,000 violent crimes per 1,000,000 means that 1 in 25 migrants commits a violent crime. That rate is very high.
How is it against the law to revoke asylum status for a criminal?
6. No successful terrorist attacks have happened in Germany yet and hopefully won't happen. But unfortunately with Germany's open door policy the likelihood is high. Just because no German citizens have died in Germany die to an Islamic attack before does not mean it won't happen. Is the risk of terrorism worth it for economic migrants? Maybe for actual refugees but not economic migrants.
1. Reasons for migrating
She essentially concedes this point when she admits she presented the statistics of all of Europe, not Germany. I did the latter and as such the data I has authority in this debate. Not that her source contradicted my claims, she just misrepresented it and never objects to what I said. She merely reiterates that only 19% of asylum requests were made by Syrians, but every single round I pointed out that the idea of only Syrians being entitled to asylum is false. The only way for her to respond would have been to argue that Iran, Afghanistan, etc. are save countries. Which is absurd.
Again, Baltic countries etc. have been declared to be save, as such requests by people coming from there have almost no chance of being accepted and the sources we both presented deal with requests, not how many actually got accepted. Thus, the number of economic refugees are even smaller than what the statistics at hand might suggest.
She drops the specific argument about the unspecified changes in German education and instead asks
“Why should Germany be forced to sacrifice its education, economy and safety for people who aren't eve refugees?”
This is essentially the first point she made, because the phasing implies Germany should not care for economic refugees. As such she concedes her point on education in general and the complaint at hand was answered under 1. Reasons for migrating.
In short: Nobody forces Germany to help people who don’t need help and Germany rarely does that.
I could respond to the other things she said here, but since she does not deliver any justification for her claims, she does not meet her burden anyway.
She asks questions like whether I want the sharia to be implemented or whether I want a lot of rapes happening as if it was somehow established fact that these things are going to happen. Of course I don’t want them to happen, but Pro gives not a single reason to think the might actually happen.
Indeed, it is precisely claims of rape skyrocketing like this, Ulf Küng, head of the CID Braunschweig, whom I quoted last round, responded to, when he said they are “absolute nonsense”. I don’t think my opponent realizes what numbers we are talking about here. One million refugees aren’t going to change the culture of a country with over 81.2 million citizens.
She refuses to respond to anything I said. I rest my case.
My opponent, once again, twists the numbers in her favor. I presented the exact number, 3.4%, in my opening statement. Why does she feel the need to claim it is 4.0% (1 in 25)? I calculated 3.4% by assuming every refugee would commit only one crime, which I admitted to be a grossly inaccurate assumption. 3.4% is the worst case scenario, because those refugees who stand out for violence commit far more than just one crime (1).
Yes, it is against the law to revoke asylum status unless the person has committed crimes of outstanding severity (was repeatedly serving prison sentences) or is a threat to public safety, as stated by Section 53 and 54 of the Residence Act (2).
Further, expelling any criminal refugee would be against the non-refoulement principle of the UN Convention relating to the Status of Refugees which states:
“No Contracting State shall expel or return ('refouler') a refugee in any manner whatsoever to the frontiers of territories where his life or freedom would be threatened on account of his race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion” (3)
I asked her to present the numbers, which she ignored. My opponent only reasserts her unsubstantiated claims.
There have been seven attempted attacks in Germany after, all of which were prevented (4). I’ll say it again, to take the fringe possibility of a terrorist attack happening, even assuming some dozen people would be killed, as a reason to leave multiple hundreds of thousands of people to ISIS is not only ridiculous, it is paranoid.
In conclusion, my opponent did an extremely poor job of justifying her claims. What she proposes violates both German law and international conventions, whenever I asked to back up some claim, she ignored my request and she blatantly misrepresents data several times.