The Instigator
1Historygenius
Pro (for)
Winning
25 Points
The Contender
xxx200
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

It would be better if the Ottoman Empire still ruled the Middle East.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
1Historygenius
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 11,421 times Debate No: 20973
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (4)

 

1Historygenius

Pro

Now this is a topic I am interested in for a debate. Before I start let me give some information on the Ottoman Empire.

The Ottoman Empire (1299-1924) was an empire that largely controlled the Middle East and even more at its height including the Barbary Coast, the Balkans, and the Black Sea. The empire unified the the Middle East until its permanent damage from fighting with the Central Powers in World War 1 and years later it would fall in 1924 due to a revolution. Today the relics of the Ottoman Empire are in Turkey where it was first established in Istanbul (back then called Constantinople) and was ruled by a monarch knows as a Sultan.

I believe that in terms of issues in the Middle East today the world would benefit more if the Ottoman Empire still ruled the Middle East. Specifically at its pre-World War 1 borders seen here:

http://euroheritage.net...

Round 1 is just for introduction.
xxx200

Con

i am accepting the debate. please give your argument.
Debate Round No. 1
1Historygenius

Pro

I welcome my oppponent to this debate. Now lets get started.

1. What It Possessed
First off the Middle East is in chaos and the US and NATO were forced to enter areas such as Iraq and have to intervene a lot in Israel and its wars. Other issues such as Iran and revolution in Egypt are also critical in this time. However, before all this chaos started the Ottoman Empire unified the Middle East. As I have said I am specifically supporting its pre-World War 1 borders before that war started. The Ottomans ruled over Iraq and maybe we would had not needed to enter the country if the empire still existed today. The Ottomans also owned places like Palestine where there is chaos also. This is my first reason I believe the empire should still exist because it controlled some areas we are stuck in today. (1)

2. Its Relations With the West
Today relations with the Middle East could be better, but the Ottomans held a great relationship with Europe specifically. Bear in mind that the Ottoman Empire helped some European powers in World War 1. Even before the alliance was made, Allied Powers like Great Britain and France also got a lot of interest from the Ottomans to make an alliance. It was allied with Germany and it had close relations with Austria-Hungary and Italy which were part of Germany's Triple Alliance before the war. Not to mention Turkey (which was the heart of the empire before it was broken up) today is a viable candidate to be in the EU. This shows that Europe and the Ottoman Empire do hold some close relations. The economic growth of Turkey will help the EU even more at this time. (2,3)

3. Open to Religion
Yes the Ottoman Empire was open to religion. Now most of you might say "WTF what about the Armenian Genocide you twat!" and to that I will present you with some knowledge. The Armenian Crisis mainly was caused by a series of coups on the government, various policies such as taxes, World War 1, and the emotions of various Ottoman people and leaders. The Ottoman Empire started treating Christians and Jews as their intellectual equals in the 1860s and this continued to progress over time. Great Britain, France, and Russia had intervened in several instances over issues with the Armenians and the Ottomans and the Ottoman Empire did negotiate with the three countries. Anyway the first tension was caused by Ottoman officials and not the entire government to be exact. Tension rose when various Ottoman officials raised taxes on the Armenians causing some fighting. However, as time went on things got better for them with the first coup knows as the Young Turk Revolution and the formation of a constitutional monarchy. Incidents building up to World War 1 were due to Islamic militants on Armenians. However, the government was not in favor ofr massacre at the time which if you compare that to Palestine today the Ottomans seems to tolerate others better. When World War 1 did break out the Armenians moved to various places, but could not escape the blooshed specifically with the Russian Empire and the Ottoman Empire during the war. Most issues were caused by the war minister at the time, Enver Pasha. The Ottoman military officials were also scared of a revolt by the Armenians. After thwat would be when hysteria happened by Ottoman officials eventually too much for the government to handle. The government made mistakes however such as the orders for deportation and such, but the government was corruptebly run by three man known as the "Three Pashas" which were mainly responsible for the deaths of these Armenians. Also, its not like the Turkish today are proud of this like the Germans are not proud of the holocaust. The facts are that every nation has its dark days even the United States. We still progress and make things better. Besides that Turks were Muslims and were tolerant of other religions because of that. From its beginnings Islam had accepted the existence of other monotheistic religions. Jews and Christians had lived in -lands ruled by Islam since the time of the prophet Muhammad. (4, 5)

4. Keeping Iran in Check
The Ottoman Empire and the Perisan Empire were not perfect with each other. They had been in several wars. Today the Persian Empire is now Iran. I believe that the Ottomans would be concerened with Iran today especially with their chance of gaining a nuclear weapon.

1. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk...
2. http://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://www.todayszaman.com...
4. http://en.wikipedia.org...
5. http://www.globaled.org...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...
xxx200

Con

ottoman empire cannot control islamic terrorism. besides ottomans are themselves muslim. how they could be out of islamic terrorism ?

ottomans might help west in ww1 but that was a battle of chrisian vs christian. war on terror is a battle of christian vs. muslim. here ottomans cannot help.

if ottomans still ruled middle east the west will have an unified enemy much more powerfull than divided middle east. thank god ottomans did not rule middle east.
Debate Round No. 2
1Historygenius

Pro

First off my opponent has not answered any of my arguments.
My opponent said:

"ottoman empire cannot control islamic terrorism. besides ottomans are themselves muslim. how they could be out of islamic terrorism ?"

He has concentrated this on a war of religion, but as I have proven through sources, the Ottoman Empire was open to religion. Because the Ottoman government is open to religion there would be not as much trouble as there is with the several Middle Eastern nations today. Also, I mentioned that the Ottoman Empire HAS dealt with Islamic terrorism. The coups to control the empire were all from other Muslims and they were terrorizing the Ottoman Government and the people in the empire that supported the government. Now some people in the empire maybe so emotional and protest the government for its open religion policy but the government would try to stop that. May I still remind you that even before World War 1 the Ottoman Empire was close to European powers. The Ottoman Empire had traded with the Europeans and was allied with several European powers for years and its only real European enemies were some of the Balkan States and Russia.

"ottomans might help west in ww1 but that was a battle of chrisian vs christian. war on terror is a battle of christian vs. muslim. here ottomans cannot help."

I have already stated that they can. First off, Islamic terrorists saw the US as big and powerful, but the Ottoman Empire was a big and powerful too and many people prospered undered it. So maybe people who are radical Muslims today would be less likely to be ones in a world where the great Ottoman Empire exists. Maybe if the empire would still be around there would be no 9/11. Not saying that this is guaranteed, but it sure could happen. Now my opponent has no real rebuttal to the Ottoman role in World War 1, but that it was Christain vs. Christain as if religion played such a significant role in World War 1 which religion did not. Also, if the Ottoman Empire was in World War 1 it was not Christain vs. Christain.

"if ottomans still ruled middle east the west will have an unified enemy much more powerfull than divided middle east. thank god ottomans did not rule middle east."

Wrong, it would be a unified ally.
xxx200

Con

ottoman empire was never an ally to the west.The Portuguese discovery of the Cape of Good Hope in 1488 initiated a series of Ottoman-Portuguese naval wars in the Indian Ocean throughout the 16th century.In southern Europe, a coalition of Catholic powers, led by Philip II of Spain, formed an alliance to challenge Ottoman naval strength in the Mediterranean Sea.see ottoman wars in europe here:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

if ottoman empire's relation with west is that bad how could it be any good to west till date?
Debate Round No. 3
1Historygenius

Pro

"ottoman empire was never an ally to the west"

My opponent's statement could not had been more wrong and idiotic. He just gives some small examples of wars between Europe and the Ottomans when in truth no country can be allied with everyone. The fact is that right up until the end the Ottomans were allied with various nations and a perfect example is that the Ottomans were at war with Austria-Hungary in the 16th Century yet it fought with them in World War 1. The Netherlands had allied with the Ottomans and fought together against the Portugese in that very war Con mentioned in the 1570s with Spain. In 1494 the Pope, yes the Pope, asked the Ottoman Empire for help against France and the Ottomans did respond. Then in the 1530s Francis I of France and his allies opened relations with the Ottomans and they worked together against the Austrians and the Holy Roman Empire. The Sultan opened relations with the French king and they traded together. In fact, Francis I admitted that if it was not for the Ottoman Empire the Holy Roman Empire would conquer all of Europe as well as the Austrians. And yet the Ottoman Empire allied with the Austrians in World War 1. Portugal and Spain were just bad omens with the Ottoman Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

On a further note I have already stated that relations between Turkey today and Europe ARE improving because of Turkey's possible acceptance into the E.U. which would possibly bring economic wealth to the E.U. and chances are the same possibilies would occur with the even larger Ottoman Empire.

Vote Pro!
xxx200

Con

ottoman's fight with different european countries on request of other european countries. ottoman's role in different european war was that of a professional killer or of marcenary.

today there are many muslim countries that play the role of professional killer or of marcenary. there is no difference if ottomans survive or not because there are many muslim govt. today in middle east that could be a professional killer or of marcenary in fighting terrorism.

therefore ottomans are not needed at all.

vote con.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by 1Historygenius 4 years ago
1Historygenius
OK now that this debate is over I think it is fair to say that xxx200 is the most insane debater I have ever met. He really did not even try to debate me he really just said random s***.
Posted by UnStupendousMan 5 years ago
UnStupendousMan
The Ottoman Empire still here. It's called Turkey. : D
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
Maybe
Posted by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
@mimshot I believe the Ottoman Empire would be best at its pre World War 1 borders. Here:

http://euroheritage.net...
Posted by lannan13 5 years ago
lannan13
If the Ottowan Emipre was still around the terrorism in the middle East would be very little. Why they had a open religon policy
Posted by Mimshot 5 years ago
Mimshot
I find the topic very interesting, but a little vague. The Ottoman empire changed sized continuously over its existence. What group of modern day countries make up the Ottoman empire of your hypothetical? For example, Egypt was no longer part of the Ottoman empire at the time it was broken up, but is generally considered to be Middle Eastern and Arab. Also, you don't specify "better" for whom. Do you mean better for someone, everyone, or the world at net?
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
It obviously could not in the past otherwise it would not have fallen.....so probably not....
Posted by 1Historygenius 5 years ago
1Historygenius
This is not about its fall, its about if the Ottoman Empire would do more to benefit the Middle East politically rather than the several nations that were once part of it.
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
The Ottoman Empire had been fading since the 1600s....it was more economic and internal issues that caused their demise than external....
Posted by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
The Ottoman empire was dismantled, along with the Austria-Hungarian empire after their defeat in WWI. The Central powers were treated most unjustly with the Treaty of Versailles, its not the Ottomans fault for not being successful.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
1Historygeniusxxx200Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: obvious win is an obvious win.....good job 1Historygenius
Vote Placed by imabench 5 years ago
imabench
1Historygeniusxxx200Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: arguments to pro, sources to pro, spelling to the pro, and conduct to the pro since the con completely derailed what should have been an awesome debate
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
1Historygeniusxxx200Tied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I agree with the last vote. Also he had more sources and better arguments refutations. Pro wins.
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 5 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
1Historygeniusxxx200Tied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Idiotic debate because of xxx200. Well done HG.