Itachi vs Pain
Debate Rounds (5)
Videos are allowed for the sources.
1st rd - intro
2nd rd - argument, no rebuttals
3rd rd - argument, rebuttals
4th rd - argument, rebuttals
5th rd - concluding argument, rebuttals, entertainment vids is optional
Please PM me first once you have accepted the challenge and we will discuss the other terms.
I will now tell the location of our fight since we have not done so in our pms. The location is a 100m area of plane grass land with forests around the boundaries. Behind Pain ( all 7 ) is a 75m wide lake and more forest land behind Itachi. We discussed in our pm that both Itachi and Pain were in full health. Nagato is also not concealed
Abilities of Itachi Uchiha (2):
Clone Great Explosion
Crow Clone Technique
Demonic Illusion: Burning Paper Body
Demonic Illusion: Mirror Heaven and Earth Change
Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes
Dusk Crow Genjutsu
Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique
Fire Release: Phoenix Sage Fire Technique
Shadow Clone Technique
Transcription Seal: Amaterasu
Water Release: Water Fang Bullet
This shows that Itachi is really strong with the only thing letting him down is his strength and stamina but with Itachi's skills, speed and intelligence, he can easily destroy all six paths of Pain and Nagato too.
Itachi's speed, intelligence and sharingan skills would allow him to avoid damage from Pain and make or counter strategies too fast for Pain to counter.
Itachi's speed is a 5/5 and with his sharingan skills, he can predict Pain's moves easily. (1) This allows Itachi to counter each of Pains attacks. Itachi's sharingan allows him to see the Pain's chakra and counteract it.
One Possible way is that Itachi can use his 'Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique' (2)(4). The fireball would hit it both sides of the Pains and also the front so they can't escape, and then while they are getting ready to counter it, Itachi would speed over to them and attack them while they just countered the 'Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique'. (2) (4) If this doesn't work, Itachi would make clones to surround the Pains and then aim the Great Fireball Technique at them, we would then jump up and throw multiple shurikens at the Pains. The pains would not expect it since they would be concentrated on the fireballs. And so the shurikens would hit them and injure them. He would then use his clones to use his Clone Great Explosion. (5) Therefore winning the battle.
In summary, Itachi's great speed and intelligence allows him to create strategies like the one described above without Nagato having a chance to counter.
I thank the opponent for accepting the debate again, and also thank you for having the time to read my second Rd. I will look forward to my opponent's argument and I will be arguing in Rd 3
Contention 1: pain's history of battle.
Pain was trained by jeria. Whereas Itachi was trained by the regular
Pain leads his own village and the akatsuki
Pain has killed many people. Pain killed his old master- The great toad sage jerriah, while he was in his sage mode
Pain wiped out hundreds of leaf ninja, while they fought back
Pain killed kakashi, so pain has proven to beat the sharingan.
Pain Killed the legendary samurai hanzou and his entire empire by himself.
Contention 2 pain's abilities
Pain has seven lives. ( I don�€™t count the eight, because he cannot move) this proves a gret advantage for pain, because itachi could barely handle saskue by himself
Pain has the rinnegan. This allows him to master all six different style releases. Itachi only posses fire and water. This means pain will only have to use the animal path and then the path.
And of course pain's juitsu
Amplification Summoning Technique
Blocking Technique Absorption Seal
Chakra Propulsion Boots
Earth Release: Earth Style Wall (Anime only)
Five Seals Barrier
Flaming Arrow Missiles
Flaming Arrow of Amazing Ability
Magic Lantern Body Technique
Mirrored Sudden Attacker Technique
Outer Path: Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique
Rain Tiger at Will Technique
Sealing Technique: Illusionary Dragon Nine Consuming Seals
Shadow Clone Technique (Anime only)
Six Paths of Pain
Summoning Technique (Demonic Statue of the Outer Path, Konan, Six Paths of Pain)
Summoning: Demonic Statue of the Outer Path
Water Release: Exploding Water Colliding Wave (Anime only)
Water Release: Violent Water Wave
Wind Release: Violent Wind Palm
Chakra Disruption Blades
All of Itachi's attacks could easily be countered by the path of the stronger element.
Contention 3: Itachi's faults
Itachi may have been able to slaughter the uchihas, but Itachi could only massacre the uchihas under the cover of night. Itachi�€™s main weapon, the genjuitsu, would not work on pain as He is able to easily escape genjuitsu
If my opponent says that itachi is an uchiha. According to madara, so is nagato. They have equal inherent from the sage of the sixth paths
And although Itachi, is strong and swift, on the battle feild, he has never show to utilize these skills. His main attack has proven only to be his genjutsu.
And he says that the sharinga allows itachi to predict pains moves, but nowhere in the series has the sharingan been used against 7 exteremely powerful opponents. Also I would like to point out that nagato also has a keike gankei of the rinnegan
Also, Although my opponent provided a good strategy, he talks about it, like pain is an incompetant ninja who can't do anything. I would also like him to post any source where Itachi used said strategy. And this power, although impressive is really easy to combat. Use the asura path as it can sustain extreme amounts of damage
Because of time constraints, I hope if my opponent doesn't mind that I put my sources for round 2 in round 3
Thank you and I await a rebuttal
1.My opponent stated that Itachi could barely kill Sasuke . This is incorrect since Itachi was weak and was on drugs to survive and battle Sasuke, he wanted Sasuke to believe that he was the one that killed the evil Itachi.(1)
2. My opponent said that Itachi's genjutsu would not work with Pain. This is incorrect since it is said in Narutopedia that Tsukuyomi could only be broken by a sharingan user with the same blood line and since Pain is not of Itachi's blood line, he cannot escape it.(2) Pain also shown to be affected by genjutsu and was not capable to escape Fukasaku and Shima's genjutsu. The 3 Pains would have died if not being rescued by the other Pains.(3)
4. My opponent stated that nowhere in the series has the sharingan been used against 7 extremely powerful opponents. This is incorrect because 1. Madara against 1st Hokage
2. Madara against 4th Hokage
3. Sasuke against Itachi
4. Itachi against Deidera
5. Kakashi against Deidera
6. Kakashi against Pain
7. Kakashi against Kakazu
note: You can find these fights in the anime (4)(5)
Another way is using tsukuyomi, Itachi just has to make eye contact with Pain and make him suffer.(2) He can then use amaterasu to burn Pain to ashes.
Good luck to the opponent and I hope he can rebut this.
(Most important source) http://www.debate.org...
2. Tsukuyomi could only be broken by a sharingan user. 1well let us consider if he used it, because of the massive chakra it requires, then he could take out maybe 3 paths and then have to end the fight. "since Pain is not of Itachi's blood line"- false read the back ground
http://naruto.wikia.com... (let this also function as my source on pain arguments from round 2)
") Pain also shown to be affected by genjutsu and was not capable to escape Fukasaku and Shima's genjutsu. The 3 Pains would have died if not being rescued by the other Pains"
exactly, if pain has been proven to be able to help his path's escape, then how can you prove tskyuomi would be effective?
Building up on point 1, all itachi's moves can be intercepted by the preva path.
(correct me if I'm wrong) but I beleive he intercepted 3 rasengan, 1 rasenshuriken, and 2 chidori's. I think it can handle 1 amaretsu
just extend point 3's points that itachi is weak
argument 2 well, no he can't. read his own source and I quote "Such a powerful technique is not without its disadvantages, however. Due to the complexity of the illusion and the quickness with which it is executed, an enormous amount of chakra is necessary and an added amount of stress is placed on the left eye, leaving Itachi's vision to be more darkened". so the tskuyomi would cause a massive drain, also as quoted from amaretsu, it would cause strain on the eyes. itachi may have powerful eyes, but even he cannot hit someone with tskyomi and then kill them with ameretsu, seven times in a row and still be standing. Also, what is to restrain the other pains from attacking at the same time? and also, when has anyone been able to recover quickly from genjuitsu and then just use such a harmful move like amaretsu?
4. 1. my opponent misunderstands me, I mean that when has the sharingan been used on seven powerful opponents AT ONCE. all his examples were one on one. i apologize for not wording that correctly
1. 'so this was the best itachi could do even on life sustaining drugs, I don't think anyone is very impressed by that. 1 this also doesn't answer any of my points.'
This is incorrect because it proves that my opponent's argument stated in Rd 2 wrong. My opponent stated that Itachi could barely kill Sasuke.
2. 'Well let us consider if he used it, because of the massive chakra it requires, then he could take out maybe 3 paths and then have to end the fight. "since Pain is not of Itachi's blood line"- false read the back ground. Pain also shown to be affected by genjutsu and was not capable to escape Fukasaku and Shima's genjutsu. The 3 Pains would have died if not being rescued by the other Pains.
exactly, if pain has been proven to be able to help his path's escape, then how can you prove tskyuomi would be effective?'
This is incorrect because Pain is not of Itachi's blood, it is said in Narutopedia that Nagato is a descendant of the Uzumaki clan.(1) The 3 Pain were only helped because the other Pains were not there. (2) And tsukoyomi would work because all Itachi needs to do is to use clones to distract the six paths of Pain and the real one would target Nagato. Once they get eye contact, all the other pains with Nagato would be in Itachi's tsukuyomi. Itachi would then kill Nagato, therefore winning the battle.
3.' all itachi's moves can be intercepted by the preva path.
(correct me if I'm wrong) but I beleive he intercepted 3 rasengan, 1 rasenshuriken, and 2 chidori's. I think it can handle 1 amaretsu.'
Amaterasu (hell fire) is a fire that cannot be stopped, it will keep burning until the target is out of the user's sight. This means that Amaterasu, is not able to be absorbed.(3) If it was to be absorbed the flames would burn the Preta Path inside-out. If this doesn't work, Itachi would just use the Great Fireball Technique with either shuriken or kunai inside it. Preta Path would be too busy absorbing the fire, he wouldn't notice the ninja tools inside them which will then kill him.
3.'well, no he can't. read his own source and I quote "Such a powerful technique is not without its disadvantages, however. Due to the complexity of the illusion and the quickness with which it is executed, an enormous amount of chakra is necessary and an added amount of stress is placed on the left eye, leaving Itachi's vision to be more darkened". so the tskuyomi would cause a massive drain, also as quoted from amaretsu, it would cause strain on the eyes. itachi may have powerful eyes, but even he cannot hit someone with tskyomi and then kill them with ameretsu, seven times in a row and still be standing. Also, what is to restrain the other pains from attacking at the same time? and also, when has anyone been able to recover quickly from genjuitsu and then just use such a harmful move like amaretsu?'
This is incorrect because it is shown in the anime that Itachi was able to use Amaterasu in a row.(4) My opponent said that Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi causes strain. This is correct. With this information, we can figure out that if Itachi can use Amaterasu twice in a row without resting, he should be able to use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. And it is shown in the videos that Itachi was able to recover from Tsukuyomi and use Amaterasu. Tsukuyomi only hurts the user if the genjutsu breaks. If it breaks, Itachi would need to recover in about 1-2 mins.
4. What does this point have to do anyway. Just because it has never been used on seven powerful opponents AT ONCE doesn't mean it can't be. The battle is Itachi vs Nagato and the Six Paths of Pain, that's 1 vs 7. As you can see a sharingan user is against 7 powerful people. I rest my case.
As I have proven my opponent wrong, I will state another way of killing Pain.
Itachi can use Ephemeral, which is a genjutsu that works just by people seeing him move and since all the Pains are focused on Itachi, they are all affected by it. Itachi would then just kill them. And since all the Pains are protecting Nagato because he is in a 'thing' that does not allow him to move, it would just be easier for Itachi because they are all watching his movements.
I await my opponent's response before the last round.
(important source) http://www.debate.org...
(4) 3 Videos Above
boredinclass forfeited this round.
boredinclass forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited the last two rounds. Pro also had better spelling and used far more sources.
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