The Instigator
Koopin
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points
The Contender
ournamestoolong
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points

Italians should always be considered White

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Koopin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/31/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,721 times Debate No: 10627
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (30)
Votes (4)

 

Koopin

Con

I would like to thank who ever accepts this debate. Since I am Con I will let my opponent go first.
Since this is a four round debate, please be brief on your first argument.
ournamestoolong

Pro

Well, lets have a go at it then!

Definitions:

White: without malice; harmless
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Always: every time; on every occasion
http://dictionary.reference.com...

presented or thought out with care
http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

RESOLUTION: Italians should always be considered as White

I do not need to tell anyone in the audience that Italians, as a people, are generally kind. Even if you disagree with this satatement, you must agree that some people are kind. This brings us to the conclusion that people should always consider if anyone (including Italians) are white.

I will end here because you asked me to be breif.
Debate Round No. 1
Koopin

Con

Many Italians are kind people yes, but just because someone is kind does not mean that they are always without malice or harmless.

It was said that Hitler was a very kind man to the blonde hair blue eyes. But to say that he was harmless because he was kind is absurd.

We must face it, no one is perfect.

Now, even if there was someone who was perfect, that does not mean that everyone is.

Let us say we put one person in a room that is perfect. Then we put nine other people in the same room who are not perfect. We call them test subjects 1.As

We can not say that all 1.As are perfect just because one of them is.

Do you think that Benito Mussolini was always perfect?
Thank you,
I look forward to your next argument.

Sources:
(1). http://en.wikipedia.org...
(2). http://dictionary.reference.com......
(3). http://dictionary.reference.com......
(4). http://en.wikipedia.org...
ournamestoolong

Pro

Thanks to my oppponent for what is bound ti be an interesting debate.

"Many Italians are kind people yes, but just because someone is kind does not mean that they are always without malice or harmless"

Does this mean you should not consider the fact? In fact with all people, you should always consider this fact.

"It was said that Hitler was a very kind man to the blonde hair blue eyes. But to say that he was harmless because he was kind is absurd"

As I said, it should have been considered (Thought about) that he was harmless. However, when his actions disproved this, he should should have been considered as evil.

"Now, even if there was someone who was perfect, that does not mean that everyone is."

I aree with this.

"Let us say we put one person in a room that is perfect. Then we put nine other people in the same room who are not perfect. We call them test subjects 1.As"

Okay.

"We can not say that all 1.As are perfect just because one of them is"

But you can consider it. Also, I would like to point out that white does not mean perfect, but without harm.

Do you think we should always assume people are evil?

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
Koopin

Con

Thank you for posting your next argument.

You yourself said that considered means thought out with care.

Another translation, though meaning the same thing, is

"Reached after or carried out with careful thought"

That is the translation from your own source you provided me.

So, considered does not mean just reach or carried out. What it means is reached after or carried out with careful thought.

Care, or careful means cautious in one's actions.
Do you see where I'm going?

If we think about all the Italians carefully, we relies that there has to be at least one person who has, is, or will harm someone. There has to be at least one person or is with malice.

Mr. Russo is an Italian mob boss that was just caught. His mob was called the Russo clan.
Police described the Russo clan as a leading player in the Camorra organized-crime syndicate that operates in and around Naples.

There are other Italian mobs that are currently running loose causing harm to others.
Since we have no proof that someone is innocent, we can not always think they are.

I will use something more familiar, the mafia games that are played on DDO.

There are usually about eighteen players, some are innocent and some guilty. There are more innocent than guilty. Everyone, including the guilty, pretends that they are innocent. Just because most of the people are innocent does not mean that we should consider all of the people playing the game innocent.

If you are unfamiliar with the game you can find the link in my sources below.

I thank you and look forward to your next argument.

Happy New Years.

Sources:
(1). http://dictionary.reference.com...
(2). http://online.wsj.com...
(3). http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
(4). http://ddofans.com...
ournamestoolong

Pro

"Reached after or carried out with careful thought"

This is where we disagree. I said considered means thought out with care, while you have said its carried out after careful thought.

"So, considered does not mean just reach or carried out. What it means is reached after or carried out with careful thought."

It has two definitions, and since they are from the same source, and I hadprovided mine first, I feel my definition trumps your's.

"If we think about all the Italians carefully, we relies that there has to be at least one person who has, is, or will harm someone. There has to be at least one person or is with malice."

Agreed.

"Mr. Russo is an Italian mob boss that was just caught. His mob was called the Russo clan.
Police described the Russo clan as a leading player in the Camorra organized-crime syndicate that operates in and around Naples"

I agree with this biography.

"There are other Italian mobs that are currently running loose causing harm to others.
Since we have no proof that someone is innocent, we can not always think they are"

However, you can always consider this.

"There are usually about eighteen players, some are innocent and some guilty. There are more innocent than guilty. Everyone, including the guilty, pretends that they are innocent. Just because most of the people are innocent does not mean that we should consider all of the people playing the game innocent."

Mafia is a game of complete analysis. If you fail to analyze and consider the posibility of someone being innocent, you are going to lose.

Thank you for reading.
Debate Round No. 3
Koopin

Con

Thank you for posting your next argument. My last argument will be brief, since I have already made my point.

Listen to the following sentences,

"Reached after or carried out with careful thought"

"Presented or thought out with care"

Tell me something, what's the difference?

The only difference is that it is worded differently.

You say that you disagree with my translation of considered. That is contradicting yourself. There is no difference between your and mine.

Since there is no difference, if it pleases you I will use your translation.

I live in the USA.
When people from North Korea here Americans, they do not think of them as kind and harmless.

Italy also has enemies, so not everyone will consider Italians as harmless.

Analysis, interesting word, lets look at what is means.

"The separating of any material or abstract entity into its constituent elements"

In order to do this you have to carefully think over the facts, or, as you say, consider.

Where is your proof that Italians are all kind?

Audience, my opponent is still trying to win a debate that he lost in round two.
Although he is somewhat a good debater, he has failed to provided sources that would prove his case, has made numerous spelling and grammar mistakes, and has had a weak argument. I believe I have made my point clear and heavily urge a Con vote.

I would like to again thank my opponent for accepting this debate, and would like to thank the audience for reading.
ournamestoolong

Pro

I thank my opponent for a wonderful debate.

"Tell me something, what's the difference?"

On has one option as a definition (Presented OR thought out with care) where the definition could just mean thought out. The other definition means only one thing.

"Since there is no difference, if it pleases you I will use your translation"

Excellent, though you do contradict this point later in your argument.

"When people from North Korea here Americans, they do not think of them as kind and harmless"

This is a matter of perspective, one thing that must be considered when determining if someone is white.

"Italy also has enemies, so not everyone will consider Italians as harmless"

But you must consider perspective into this as well.

"Where is your proof that Italians are all kind"

I never stated I believed that.

"Audience, my opponent is still trying to win a debate that he lost in round two."

We shall see what the voters decide.

I would like to thnk the audience for reading and my opponent.

Vote PRO.
Debate Round No. 4
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rockylightning 6 years ago
Rockylightning
I am offended by this
Posted by Sky_ace25 7 years ago
Sky_ace25
Nah man, vacation man you relax and enjoy =P

Now the work starts again -.-
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
lol, yeah.
Posted by ournamestoolong 7 years ago
ournamestoolong
Resolved: All DDO users have too much tim on their hands.
Posted by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
Resolved: Some ddo debaters have too much time on their hands.
Posted by True2GaGa 7 years ago
True2GaGa
sky- you are 2 funny!
Posted by Sky_ace25 7 years ago
Sky_ace25
Geesh Koopin, for a chicken you are lethal =P.
Posted by Sky_ace25 7 years ago
Sky_ace25
Geesh Koopin, for a chicken you are lethal =P.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
My post will probably be up tonight. I'm gonna be real busy today.
Posted by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
Lol ournamestoolong, my definition is the same as yours. It is just worded different.

presented or thought out with care
carried out with careful thought

Same thing.

:)
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by EHS_Debate 7 years ago
EHS_Debate
KoopinournamestoolongTied
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Vote Placed by Sky_ace25 7 years ago
Sky_ace25
KoopinournamestoolongTied
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Vote Placed by RoyLatham 7 years ago
RoyLatham
KoopinournamestoolongTied
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Vote Placed by Koopin 7 years ago
Koopin
KoopinournamestoolongTied
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