Its Men Who Need Liberation Not Women
Debate Rounds (3)
Let me now discuss the specific issues of men where we demand Liberation
1. Men need liberation from being family breadwinners or ATM cards. All responsibilities should be shared by all adult family members.If there is a family business, the son is forced to join no matter how unsuited or how unwilling.
2. Men should be able to pursue their dreams. Men need liberation from a system that expects them to " marry, ensure their spouse is dutiful, and have sons to carry on the family name "and the same responsibilities.
3. Men need liberation from being "protectors" of women. Girls who do not have brothers manage perfectly fine, women who do not have sons or husbands learn to "protect" themselves. I think families should make an effort to encourage girls to take care of themselves, so their brothers " sometimes years younger " are not forced to be their "protectors".
4. Most parents are selfish when looking for a life partner for their son. The happily married daughter is seen as an asset to the family name and honor, but not a happily married son.
5. Paternity leave. Men to be granted paternity leave
I would like to conclude with the remarks that why talk of just Women Empowerment ? Why don"t we talk about equality or humanism. It is high time for normalization and neutralization.
I agree with you on many of your points, but I think that women are more in need of liberation than men. Of course I agree that the whole idea of gender roles is hurting both men and women, I feel that women are getting the worst of it.
The statement, "Its Men Who Need Liberation, Not Women" is wrong since both genders need liberation from forced gender roles. Also, in third world countries its obvious that women are more in need of liberation. Maybe in war time when men have to go out and fight they have it worse, but women are treated brutally in many peaceful third world countries and in war times are killed and raped with no weapons to defend themselves. Not to talk about forced marriage and the law that states that if a man rapes a women they have to marry.
Firstly though I will look at your argument. I will be using the same numbers as your argument did and and look at each of your points individually.
1. Although I like your idea that responsibility should be shared by adults I think that since part time jobs only get so much money its much easier for one person to work full time while the other spends their time with the kids. Also please note that in this case the women has to stay home and raise the kids. I and some others feel that this is not a very great job sometimes since you hardly ever get credit, do not make money and can not really use your creativity to solve problems. Also,no the son is not always forced to take the family business and I as a daughter would actually like the family business since it provides financial security. When do girls get to inherit it?
2. Actually it is women who are more forced to marry by society who lose their dreams. I will not say that its not the same for men, but its definitely worse for women. Men at least get to achieve some success in their workplace. What dreams do women who are forced to marry get? And in many third world countries women are usually forced to marry as soon as their period starts. No education and no dreams.
3. Well, in I agree that people should stop telling girls they are weak, but I think being told you are a protector and strong is better than being told you are weak and in need of protection. Again its bad for both males and females, but I think females have it worse.
4. Firstly, no parents are not lazy. There is a time when a parent needs to say,"Ok, my child is now grown up." Looking for a partner for your child is wrong and not the parent's responsibility. I think the whole idea of having to marry should just be stopped. I think marriage should be a choice and you should only marry a person you love. Anyways, females have it worse. They have to probably go against their parents will and not marry the suitor they found or they have to marry someone their parents found. which could force them into an unhappy marriage. Also, in first world countries neither married females not married males are seen as a asset to the family. Sure in some families still, but not in most. Third world is different, but still worse for women.
5. I don't think paternity leave is a bad idea, but remember women are in a physically weaker state and have gone though the painful and traumatic experience of giving birth. Men on the other hand just want to see their child and help their wife. In countries where the economy is not that strong its better for men not to have paternity leave. Its widely known that women can survive without their husbands there all the time with the baby and most husbands can take a day off to see their child.
I conclusion I agree that first world men and women suffer almost equally under sexism and forced gender roles, but definitely not in most third world countries. Also most of the time women are thought of as impure and "sluts" when they sleep around, but men are "players". So, I think women (especially in third world countries) are the ones more in need of liberation.
Here I list a few websites about this:
Thank you for reading my argument and giving it a chance.
I don't have any personal grudge against women but all I want is that there should be equality for every gender as all are part of the same world. Men have done everything for the liberation of women. But now it's high time. Everyone should be treated equally, all should perform the same tasks, and everyone should be given same responsibilities and provisions.
Over to you con.
Ok, so you agree with my previous argument? In which I say that women are still more in need of liberation? Looking at the rest of your argument (in which you say men have done everything to liberate women) I don't think your agree with it. I'm a bit confused though.
Well, I agree there should be equality. What I'm saying though is that women are the ones more in need of liberation than men. Also no, men have not done everything to liberate women. Some men have, but definitely not everyone and in a lot of third world countries men still actively oppress women. Countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Mali and Pakistan. I'd like you to look up these countries and how women are treated in them and still tell me with a straight face that men are the ones more in need of liberation.
This website for example:
And I agree that Western Feminism can be incorrect some of the time, here's a article about it:
And let's look at women in Afghanistan, a third world country.
The Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission has said that the number of cases of violence against women in 2013 has risen by 24.7% compared with last year - an increase it describes as "staggering".
Some of these reports will be the kind of everyday violence that a number of Afghan women face at home. Many women are too afraid to seek justice because, campaigners say, more often than not their cases are ignored.
But others are cases of brutality meted out in areas under Taliban control such as the case in 2010 where a couple were stoned to death in a village in the northern province of Kunduz.
Here are two horrifying true stories.:
Rescued from stoning in Kunduz
In a remote northern village, a woman was about to be stoned to death after her husband accused her of adultery.
It is all the more remarkable for being a case where the police managed to rescue the woman from the Taliban - there have been few examples of such cases.
The militants put her into a fenced compound for two days before the police swooped in and plucked her to safety. She told the BBC about her ordeal.
"After my husband divorced me, I went to my father's home where the Taliban would come day and night as unpaid guests. Unfortunately the whole area is controlled by the Taliban.
"When my father, along with other villagers got fed up with this because they were concerned that the government forces would quiz them on why they were feeding and supporting the Taliban, they told them to go to the mosque and they would provide food for them there," she said.
According to her, this angered the Taliban who, she says, "seized the opportunity to turn on me".
In this case, Afghan Interior Ministry spokesman Sidiq Siddiqi said that the police fought hard against the Taliban for two hours in order to rescue the woman and took her to a safe house where she will remain with her children.
"I have decided to fight for my rights against my husband. Of course, I can't fight the Taliban - the government should deal with them but I will do what my husband did to me, I will fight him but I will do it via the courts."
Sutara: Engaged at 11, mutilated at 30
Thirty-year-old Sutara spoke to the BBC from her hospital bed in the western city of Herat after being subjected to a savage knife attack by her husband.
On Friday, 13 December, she says that her husband insisted that she hand over her jewellery to him so he could sell it to buy some drugs.
She refused - so her husband hit the back of her head with a stone and she lost consciousness, she says. While she was unconscious, her husband stabbed her head several times, she says, and then he sliced off her top lip and cut off her nose.
Sutara's four daughters, who range in age from three to 12, were at home at the time of the attack.
She was taken to hospital and the children were taken to her mother to be looked after. Meanwhile, Sutara's husband ran away and he is still in hiding. Police are looking for him.
Sutara says that once her husband is found, she wants some justice
Interior ministry spokesman Sidiq Siddiqi said: "We have plenty of evidence against her husband so when he is found, and after the police have carried out a complete investigation, he will be handed over to the court and will end up behind bars.
"Meanwhile we will send Sutara overseas to receive more medical treatment but sadly her children will have been traumatised to witness such a horrific attack."
For many observers, the problem is that women are afraid to report violence because they know the law and its practice favours men.
Farkhunda Zahra Naderi, MP says that this year there have been more instances of violence against women
She said the trend was continuing because "men know they can get away with it" due a law designed to protect women not being fully implemented.
"In addition, the Supreme Court in Afghanistan is male-dominated which filters down to the lower courts so women don't have a strong voice to get them justice. It's worrying because we have no clear definition of what will happen to women after 2014," Ms Naderi says.
But these are just two recent cases that have come to public knowledge - many more go unreported and campaigners say the unfortunate truth is that the first case is all the more remarkable because the woman was rescued.
Don't believe me that they're true? Here's the link: http://www.bbc.com...
Even though in the first story the police managed to save the women please note that she was a mother. She had children. Children who would be left motherless if she was killed. And like the story states it does not happen a lot that they manage to save the victim.
And in the second story the woman also had children. Her husband attacked her in the same house as his children and mutilated her. Her life is almost ruined. Sutara will always be left with the scars.
I ask you to read these stories and the hundreds of others on the internet and tell me that its not women, but men who are more in need of liberation.
Coming back on the debate.
Men are hurt by the male gender role and patriarchy and that men's lives are alienating, unhealthy and impoverished. It is often sympathetic to feminism and seeks to emancipate men in the same manner by which women continue to seek liberation through the feminism. They believe that men are overworked, trained to kill or be killed, brutalized and subjected to blame and shame. They give attention to the damage, isolation and suffering inflicted on boys and men through their socialization into manhood.
Thank You for reading my argument.
Secondly, If I made an infringement on copyright, I am sincerely sorry. I did not intend for it.
Honestly. Think about it. If I did try and claim it as my own, would I really leave a very convenient link to the website it was from? Again though, if this is the case I sincerely apologize.
I made no attempt at plagiarism since the two stories and one paragraph of facts was obviously copied from the website to which I left a link to at the bottom. I thought that would make sure everyone knew I did not write them although it retrospect I should probably have left a clearer disclaimer.
My reasoning behind posting those facts and stories was that a lot of the time people don't bother on clicking your links. I just wanted to put them at the forefront. I understand though that its must not have been to hard to think I typed it all out myself.
This is my first argument on Debate.com, so I'm not so used to it. The paragraph with the facts and the two stories are not mine. They belong to BBC news. I make no claim to them and simply posted them to try and raise awareness of how badly some women are treated.
The part from the website aren't arguments. I posted my own arguments using them as facts to back it.
Also, you said I went on to different sites? No, I actually went on to one site and that is where I got those. The site I left a link too. Seriously, find the supposed sites where the rest is from and I'll give up and let you win this debate.
You probably clicked the link I provided to go to that website anyways. Please make sure of your facts before you accuse me.
Now on to the argument:
There's really nothing I haven't said. The words, "Men are the ones in need of liberation, not women" are fundamentally wrong. Had the words been,"Men are also in need of liberation" I would have agreed. Had the words been,"First world men are more in need of liberation, than first world women" I would have maybe given it a chance.
But, the words are,"Men are the ones in need of liberation, not women"
This includes third world women. I'm sorry, but saying men (1st world and 3rd world) are the ones more in need of liberation and not women (1st and 3rd world) is just fundamentally wrong.
Also even though it may be different in first world, third world countries take up a considerable bit of our planet. You can't just ignore the women suffering there.
Sure, ok, men are told to be strong and stereotyped harshly, but I think you would agree that that is a better life than constantly living in fear and having no chance to even change your life. Go do the research. In fact I'm not sure Pro did any research. Really, I'd like to see the facts that back statements such as,"Men have done everything for the liberation of women." I'm sure that a lot of men have.
I, for example, play chess. In my country chess is mostly male dominated. Anyways, those men held a all girls chess tournament and made it pretty clear that they appreciated girls playing chess. I really respect and admire those men and I'm sure there are many like them out there, but all men? Not likely. Just like all women don't always respects men. Sure lots of them do, but not all.
Having said this I would be shocked if you still thought that men need liberation and women do not.
I personally believe both genders should be equal. And right now both genders are in need of liberation. Not just men.
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