The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
Robert_Santurri
Con (against)
Losing
14 Points

It's time for the Government to crackdown hard on Elton John.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/21/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,248 times Debate No: 5767
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (24)
Votes (5)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

The man has gone too far and it's time he was stopped. Whether you hate and despise him, or merely loathe him with a passion, you have to admit that this over-rated celebrity singer-songwriter is at least one sandwich short of a picnic.

Let's look at the facts:

He's a married man. Nothing wrong with that, you might say, until you discover he's married…TO ANOTHER MAN!

http://www.flickr.com...

It doesn't matter that he's gay, obviously, and I know that same-sex marriages are not illegal everywhere, but how far do you think he and his husband would get trying to check into a double room at the Cromosaig guesthouse in Scotland or the Al Faisaliah Hotel in Riyadh? Surely he thought about the international reaction before he took the plunge?

http://www.guardian.co.uk...

Not that he should be allowed out of the country in the first place, mind you. This cracked old crooner is a Knight of the Realm, and so is viewed as a cultural ambassador for his nation. Yet, when he's abroad, he behaves like the spoilt little brat that he is by acting up in front of the world's press, as he did in Taiwan when he threw a Wendy at some photographers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

His disgraceful behaviour brings shame and dishonour on Britain and his anti-social antics abroad cannot be allowed to continue unabated.

Then there's the question of his profligate spending. Okay, it's up to him how he spends his own money, but when half of the world's children are mal-nourished, can he really justify spending over �300,000 ($600,000) a year on flowers? Yes, that's right – flowers. Most people in the developing world wouldn't earn even a fraction of that amount in an entire lifetime, but Sir Elton wastes that amount annually down at his local florists. What do you think of that?

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

For these, and many other reasons, I propose that the British Government should find a way to slap an ASBO (1) on him and have his passport revoked.

Thank you.

.
(1) http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk...
Robert_Santurri

Con

I would first like to take this time to thank my opponent for creating such an interesting debate topic. I hope we both will be able to enjoy it.

I will first like to start off by stating the obvious; my opponent does not feel the love tonight.

My opponent calls Elton John overrated, but Elton is far from overrated.

Here are some of Elton's awards: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Here is also a list of Elton's songs, included are many time-tested legendary songs: http://en.wikipedia.org...

I also point to this Billboard hot 100 chart 50th anniversary where Elton is #3: http://www.billboard.com...

One of the finest songs by the Rocket Man is posted in the first YouTube video.
It is called Candle in the Wind 1997 and the original rewritten specifically for Princess Diana's funeral. He has only performed this once live, which was at her funeral. Also, the only reason he did not write a new song is because he was too depressed by her death as they were good friends. Elton has also written the song "Empty Garden" in tribute to John Lennon.

Facts:
Though my opponent may/may not have a problem with Elton being homosexual, it isn't wrong to be homosexual. My opponent says it doesn't matter but obviously has a problem with Elton trying to get a hotel room somewhere. It isn't Elton and his partner fault that the hotels decided to discriminate.

Elton was not acting like a brat in Taiwan. You may not appreciate his behavior but it was justifiable. Would you not be angry if you had just arrived at an airport only to be mobbed by flashing cameras and reporters throwing questions out at you? Not only did that, but the police force there to protect Elton not do their job properly as stated in the article my opponent posted. There have been several examples where the media (Paparazzi) have gone too far. Just like when they played a part in Princess Diana's death.

Would I call Elton behavior here unsocial? No, rather angry at the present situation and maybe even perhaps having a bad day. Elton John is only human like the rest of us; he has his bad days too.

In fact, the second YouTube video is short but shows Elton John signing autographs for his fans after the concert. How many singers do that these days? This certainly does not look like anti-social behavior to me.

Now my opponent has seems to have a problem with Elton's spending habits. Sure he can justify spending over $600,000 a year on flowers. My opponent seems to be holding Elton John to higher standard then all other celebrities; do other celebrities not have their own habits?

This whole point is null and void however, since this has only occurred between January of 1996 to September of 1997. This happened OVER TEN YEARS AGO ladies and gentlemen. My opponent is trying to blame my opponent for having a slight spending spree on flowers over ten years ago. My opponent own article states the time period this happened and the date of the article itself is November of 2000.

Now, Elton John has also given plenty to charitable causes over the years which my opponent also fails to state.

In 1992, Elton founded the Elton John AIDS Foundation to fund programs for HIV/AIDS prevention, for the elimination of prejudice and discrimination against HIV/AIDS-affected individuals, and for providing services to people living with or at risk of contracting HIV/AIDS. Elton is still passionate to this cause as he donated one of his two red pianos to auction on EBay to raise awareness and funds for the foundation. Elton also each year has a ball to get more money for the foundation. In 2007, the ball raised 3.5 million pounds and 4.6 million pounds in 2006. http://www.telegraph.co.uk...

The foundation has risen over $125 million to support worthy causes in 55 countries to date.

My opponent also chooses to ignore "Elton's Closet" which is a store where Elton sells his second hand clothes in order to raise money for charity. http://www.theage.com.au...

Finally, I have refuted all of my opponent points here. I have proven that Elton John has done nothing wrong and has contributed greatly to society. He is not anti-social, and he does not qualify to receive an ASBO. In fact, all my opponent has done is give you the reader a link with no evidence on how he has broken any sort of laws to get a ASBO or get his passport revoked.

I would like to thank my opponent once again for this debate and hope he can once again feel the love tonight. If not, well I guess that's why they call it the blues.
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

Many thanks to my opponent for his valiant attempt to defend Elton John. I admire him for this, as Sir Elton's PR people are paid fortunes to do this and deserve every last penny, it's got to be the toughest job in the business.

The best way to illustrate this point is to refer the voters to a recent television interview he gave.

My opponent pointed out that Elton has received a large number of awards and accolades and in so doing, proved my point that he is over-rated.

Regarding his charity work, I'm not impressed. So he turns up at a ball once a year, sups some champagne and scoffs some canap�s and then buggers off back home. So what? He's not working these days, why doesn't he roll his sleeves up and do some volunteer work for AIDS victims in the slums of Jo'burg? I think everyone would respect him a bit more if he did that.

Just to clarify, if enough people complain about an individual's behaviour, for example making a public nuisance of themselves in public places, the local authorities can impose an ASBO on which places limits on their movements. I therefore call for all voters to vote for me and I will refer my victory to the Crown Prosecution Service and demand that they act against Elton John into hand forthwith.

Thank you.
Robert_Santurri

Con

I would like again to thank my opponent for this interesting debate and interesting second round argument. I will however jump right into his points due to character limits.

I see my opponent has taken the path of humor, as if I were a paid PR person for anybody then I probably be having a lot more money then I do.

My opponent has taken a joke interview someone made up on YouTube to mock the Rocket Man. This however holds no water to the case as my opponent has decided to take this debate in a non-serious direction from a serious direction after round 1. Do not fooled by this.

I pointed out all those awards and songs of Elton John to show he is NOT overrated. My opponent never proved how or even why he considered Elton John overrated. Someone who is overrated would not have tickets that sell out within a hour as shown here. http://eltonjohnnews.blogspot.com...

Regarding Elton charity work my opponent is not impressed about $125 million raised since 1992. That is $125 million more that would have NOT been there if not for Elton starting this charity. I wonder how much my opponent has risen if he scoffs at this number? Now my opponent wonders why Elton does not go to these countries, do some volunteer work, etc.

My opponent once again has failed to do his research because Elton does such things! http://eltonjohnnews.blogspot.com...

That link above goes into depth about Elton's LOW KEY visit to South Africa. Every year, Elton and his partner David go to parts of the world that money from the charity goes to. He does this out of his own heart because he cares. Below is another link in which Elton visits KwaZulu Natal. http://www.aids.org.za...

As the choir member at the end of the article said, this is a good man and never forget him.

Now my opponent points have refuted in both Rounds 1 and 2 so therefore any reasoning for the ASBO does not exist. My opponent also has only been able to cite one example where Elton John COULD be considered a public nuisance and even that was refuted. Let us not limit Elton movements because otherwise he will not be able to do such things like go to Africa and visit these people. I therefore call voters to look at the evidence along with the facts and vote for me.

Final Points:
My opponent failed to bring up several of my refutations in Round 2 so I assume he has conceded such points.

I have refuted my opponent points in both rounds while my opponent tried to move to humor.

Any questions about Elton charity work in Round #2 were answered clearly with links of pictures to back it up.

My opponent has failed to bring up any other examples of why Elton should deserve a ABSO other then that one in Taiwan which was refuted.

So therefore, I think this is a clear and concise victory for CON and hope you the reader vote as such.

Thank you and I will leave you with these two videos of the Rocket Man from his 60th birthday performance at Madison Square Garden which was also his SIXTY (60th) sold out performances at MSG which further proves how he is not overrated.
Debate Round No. 2
24 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by bthr004 8 years ago
bthr004
I like Eggleston's debates because I find I read them to myself in a British accent.
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
*This being the video. Forgot youtube videos are automatically put onto the website.
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
Thanks for the feedback scissorhands.

I was thinking about taking the debate the same direction as Brian but decided not to.

Though I admit I was tempted to say, if not for Elton John then we would of never had this:

Haha
Posted by scissorhands7 8 years ago
scissorhands7
A very interesting argument to read. I think the true question in this debate is who had the better arguments.

1. I agreed with Pro before the debate and have mixed feelings after the debate.
2. Conduct. I must say I was pleased with both debaters conduct. They both were very friendly and humorous and if I could give them both points for their conduct I would. Excellent.
3. Spelling and Grammar - On this instance I think Pro has one. Although pro spelled behavior wrong twice, con has made 3 fragment errors and forgot to include a verb in one of his sentences. While spelling errors are menial fragment errors are large. Therefore Pro slightly wins this. However the grammar was very well done by both debaters.
4. Convincing arguments. While Pro has some excellent arguments as to why we should not support Elton, I do have to say Con had some excellent points as to his charity work. This is a very hard argument to judge. However I think Con wins due to refuting several points such as the issue of his sexuality and the reasons why Elton acted the way he did. He also provides excellent examples as to his charity work and that all celebrities have odd behavior. So on this I give a slight victory to Pro.
5. Tie, both debaters had excellent sources

All in all a good debate that made me laugh. Props to both of you!
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
*He has had several bouts.

Sorry about the typo.
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
That was my point about the alcoholic part.

Never said Elton John in general for every aspect of his life could be a role model. Which of us could be? None that I know of.

He is however clean and not a alcoholic anymore. He has several bouts with depression and was ready to kill himself if you didn't know.

We should however emulate certain parts of Elton life. His love of music, his love of charity, and many other things of his life. How many people do you know made a foundation that has raised $152 million, never mind the fact it was for AIDS research in a time where people were still violently rejected from society because they had AIDS.

Related to that, one of the major reasons that Elton said he entered rehab was Ryan White and that whole story.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
He was an alcoholic too by the way. The point is this: When you make poor life decisions they are a reflection of your character. Elton John has made many poor decisions in his life and he is not by any means a role model to look up to and he is in no position to give advice or represent anyone or any govt. He still continues to make poor choices and his personal behavior is unpredictable. If you want to tell your children and friends and family that they should look up to and emulate such a person go ahead. But quit honestly this sort of thinking by propping up ex-coke addicts and alcoholics as role models and ambassadors is just plain lunacy in my opinion
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
I assume you mean his coke habit. And I don't think you mean to bring up alcohol when you said he became sober?

We all have had our habits, I don't think that disqualifies him because he had personal problems though.

As the old saying goes, "He is who is without sin may cast the first stone."
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Elton John was a drug addict for many years. It is only recently that he became sober
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
"A life of debauchery and sin" Mind expanding upon that statement.

What "debauchery and sin" has he taken part in?
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Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
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brian_egglestonRobert_SanturriTied
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