The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
darkprincess
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points

It's time for the Government to crackdown hard on greedy fat scroungers

Do you like this debate?NoYes+4
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/30/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,764 times Debate No: 5821
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (5)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

You see them all the time, don't you? Big, fat, sweating piles of flab sitting in fast food restaurants, gorging themselves on super-sized burgers while everybody else is out earning the money to pay for them.

"No, I'm to fat to work" they say, "I'm morbidly obese and I get out of breath just walking to my Government-subsidised car".

So, instead of going out and earning an honest wage like everybody else, they slob about in junk food outlets. And when they haven't got their snouts in the trough, they are filling out their Income Support, (1) Housing Benefit, (2) Council Tax Benefit (3) and Disability Living Allowance (4) claim forms.

All this is in addition, of course, to free health care. But do they care that fat people cost the National Health Service billions of Pounds every year? (5) No, of course not. They think the world owes them a living.

Well I'm here to say that it doesn't. Its high time the British Government turned round to these corpulent spongers and snarled "Right, enough is enough, you freeloading fat f*****s; you've taken the p**s out of decent, hardworking taxpayers for too long – it's the workhouse for the lot of you."

Yes, that's right. It's time to bring back the workhouse for those indolent, overweight parasites that think the taxpayer has a duty to fund their profligate lifestyles.

But wait, I hear you say, I don't want to live next door to a prison for big, fat, stinking wasters - for one thing, it'll bring down the value of my property.

It's okay, there's no need to fret. These workhouses will be located next to landfill sites, well away from residential housing. The beauty of this idea is that the inmates will earn their keep by sifting through the refuse separating out recyclable items such as cans, bottles and paper.

In addition to improving the environment, the benefits of this scheme will be manifold, including making huge savings in state benefit payments and vastly reducing health care costs.

Furthermore, since food rations will be meagre (think watery cabbage soup and insipid gruel) and the work on the rubbish dump will be very taxing, the prisoners will quickly lose weight. The good news for them is that once they are back down to a normal size, they will be helped to find a job and, if they are successful, they will be released.

I really don't understand why the Government hasn't already thought up this scheme for itself and included it in the Queen's Speech. Perhaps there are some flaws in the plan that I've missed, but I can't think what they might be, so I hereby humbly submit this reasonable and balanced proposal to the House.

Thank you.

(1) http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk...

(2) http://www.dwp.gov.uk...

(3) http://www.dwp.gov.uk...

(4) http://www.direct.gov.uk...

(5) http://www.thisislondon.co.uk...
darkprincess

Con

First of all what someone eats or consumes orally is none of your concern unless it is you.

I find that the Pro side does not understand the meaning of morbidly obese.. Yes, sometimes it is a choice, But sometimes it is a genetic disorder.. that is why I find the pro side has forgotten some of the facts.

My second point, being Morbidly obese people have slower metabolism and probably are having a hard time to give up some of there acquired habits.. it takes some people a little longer of time to adjust to some new changes and who are you to tell them they are wrong to be slow.

My third standing point would have to stand with the quality of freedom, freedom meaning making your own choices.. no one else can choose your weight or anything else that means physical body features.

Me being a bigger person feel the hatred in this argument against larger people but I promise you they more then likely look at your beautiful tiny women and men and want that alone, and when you put them down just like in this argument saying blaspheme words towards them.. They re-think that decision in fear that they will become what they fear and that is mean, crude and most of all a hating person like pro.

Thank you!
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for her astute comments and wish her good luck in this and her future debates.

I should also like to apologise to my opponent for not expressing myself clearly enough. I seems she has erroneously formed the impression that my scheme is somehow intended to punish unemployed people who are overweight.

My goodness me, no! On the contrary, nothing could be further from the truth! My idea is that economically-inactive obese citizens should be rehabilitated into society through a workhouse-based programme of diet and exercise that will enable the participants to regain their health, dignity, self-esteem and, most importantly, their social standing through loosing weight and eventually obtaining paid employment.

In relation to my opponent's claim that people do not, as a rule, become overweight through being lazy and greedy, as I may have implied in the opening round, rather that it has something to do with genetic disorders and metabolism, I can only say that since I am not a doctor, I will not presume to contradict her. However, I will make the following observation: these medical conditions only seem to effect people in the West.

I mean, you don't see too many obese people in places like Sudan, do you? I mean lok at them…

http://www.bbc.co.uk...

They don't know how lucky they are, do they? Here we are, in the West, sending these grasping bloodsuckers aid when we could be spending that money on stuffed-crust mega-supreme meat-feast super-deluxe pizzas for ourselves. But how often do they send us money to spend on medical research so that we can discover why Westerners are so pre-disposed to obesity? Never! The bunch of miserable ingrates!

I must say, I fully accept my opponent's final point that people who want to be obese should be free to be so, with the following caveat – provided they earned the money to pay for the food themselves. If not, they're going straight to the WORKHOUSE.
darkprincess

Con

Let me thank my opponent for clearly stating his points.

I fully understand my opponents points, my reply would be that YES. Most of the people who or maybe morbidly obese, yes are Freaking huge because they eat a ton or don't work or just sit there i will not deny you that because then i will be lying on the facts. But also wouldn't you think that the people you so call needing "rehabilitated into society through a work-house based program." Shouldn't they be able to just say 'NO! Yes we would all have better health, dignity, self-esteem. But my opponent fails to explain to you what these three things are.

Self-Esteem: self-esteem reflects a person's overall evaluation or appraisal of her or his own worth.

Self-esteem encompasses beliefs (for example, "I am competent/incompetent") and emotions (for example, triumph/despair, pride/shame). Behavior may reflect self-esteem (for example, assertiveness/timorousness, confidence/caution).

http://en.wikipedia.org...

dignity: the quality of being worthy of esteem or respect; "it was beneath his dignity to cheat"; "showed his true dignity when under pressure"

Health: a healthy state of wellbeing free from disease; "physicians should be held responsible for the health of their patients"

http://www.google.com...

As my second standing point doctors have said that it is possible and has been proven that obesity is majorly caused by a genetic issue my evidence stand with:

"It is wrong to place all the blame for a child's excessive weight gain on the parents - it is more likely to be due to the child's genetic susceptibility"

-Professor Jane Wardle
University College London

" Even if someone has a gene which predisposes them to obesity, it doesn't mean they will become obese if they work hard to eat healthily"

Tam Fry
Child Growth Foundation

http://news.bbc.co.uk...
Debate Round No. 2
brian_eggleston

Pro

Many thanks to my opponent for her continued interest in this subject. With Britain now having one of the highest rates of obesity in the world, the problem has now become one of widespread debate in the general population.

Firstly, it should be accepted that overeating is an addiction and obese people deserve proper medical help to overcome their cravings for food, just in the same way as a drug user might be trated for their addiction..

However, just as junkies that refuse treatment, or relapse, face mandatory rehabilitation, usually involving incarceration within a secure environment, so this same principle applies to obese people who persistently refuse to address their weight problem. This is not punishment, it is assistance for those people who damage their health and cost the taxpayers fortunes as a result.

My opponent went on to quote Prof. Jane Wardle who said that parents shouldn't be held totally responsible for their children's excessive weight. I'm not a medical practitioner, as I already admitted, but it would appear to me that overweight kids' parents should be held to account. After all, where do the children get the food (or the money for food) from?

Perhaps if they steal it, the parents may have an excuse, but if they are knowingly feeding them too much junk food, isn't that child cruelty? Wouldn't' a mum that plied her kids with alcohol or a dad that bought his kids crack be punished?

Her final quote from Tam Fry reinforces my argument by suggesting that even with a gene predisposing one to obesity were to be identified, becoming overweight is not inevitable provided one leads a healthy lifestyle.

In other words, becoming obese, or addicted to drugs or taking up a life in crime are matters of personal choice. In society, we have rights but also responsibilities, to ourselves and to others and if we neglect our responsibilities, we should expect to receive help in order to rehabilitate ourselves back into society, whether that is through prison for drug offenders or the workhouse for the obese.

Thank you.
darkprincess

Con

My opponent holds a strong argument topics that have backing, evidence and so much more...
I can only tell you if you were obese like many americans and many british people as my opponent clearly states in round three.

would you want to be sent off to a rehabilitation workhouse for some that is the way, but for many they learn the hard yet difficult. I can offer you so much wisdom on one subject and I really hope it is convincing you that pro's topics are sort of impossible.

I am honored to have been apart of this topic and hope to become more knowledgeable and once more go up on this or a different one, but until then i wish him luck... and I hope you took my few short simple lines into consideration of the heart.

Thank you!
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
Good show, Brian. I can't believe you whipped out that photo of the starving Sudanese and layered in a pile of sarcasm. The point was harsh, but well made.

I gave the vote for most convincing argument to Pro. Con's arguments relied largely on appeal to emotion. Certainly, no one wants to be the target of a government work house program, but that is irrelevant insofar as debate is concerned. I gave spelling and grammar to Pro as well. I even gave the vote for most reliable sources to Pro since Con's source turned out to strengthen Pro's position all the more.

After going back and forth, I decided to give the conduct vote to Con. Mostly because the Sudan photo pushed the line of propriety a bit, in my opinion. Sorry, Brian.
Posted by elgeibo 8 years ago
elgeibo
I'm already digging this debate. Darkprincess says she's overweight and sympathizes, however I feel brian_eggleston is speaking on the ridiculously overweight. I wonder is darkprincess is being gentle on herself, or if she fears eventually becoming ridiculously overweight.
Posted by solo 8 years ago
solo
Agreed.
Posted by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
Eggleston easily wins a medal for the most fun to read debates.
Posted by solo 8 years ago
solo
LOL! I love it. I can't wait to see this one play out. XD
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
That's cool LM - shame though, I was looking forward to debating you, what with your formidable reputation and all!

Incidentally, that "business you need to take care of" sounds very sinister!
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Sorry for taking up this debate. I had this great idea to argue something along the lines of "A modest proposal" in response, but I waited so long to begin responding the I completely lost my train of thought. That, and I have some business to take care of at the moment so I can't really afford to cram that idea back into my skull. I apologize for wasting your time, Mr. Eggleston and shall try not to do so in the future.

In the mean time, I'll let my first round be forfeited so that this debate can automatically go back to the challenge section. Again, I deeply apologize.

PS: If no one takes this debate within the next 3 days, I will have most likely recalled my idea of an argument at that point and will retake this debate. Till then . . .
Posted by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
Robert_Santurri
Brian, you sure to love have the Gov't crackdown hard on quite alot huh? Haha
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by zach12 8 years ago
zach12
brian_egglestondarkprincessTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Vote Placed by Kantus 8 years ago
Kantus
brian_egglestondarkprincessTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
brian_egglestondarkprincessTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by KRFournier 8 years ago
KRFournier
brian_egglestondarkprincessTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:61 
Vote Placed by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
brian_egglestondarkprincessTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30