The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Losing
48 Points
The Contender
feverish
Con (against)
Winning
53 Points

It's time to crackdown on Lesbian impostors

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/21/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,330 times Debate No: 7495
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (17)
Votes (21)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

In preparation for this debate I conducted a thorough study of the "Lesbian Scene" in London and as a result of my tireless research have uncovered the shocking truth that few, if any, of the many Lesbian bars and clubs in the capital actually sell Lesbian food or drinks - or even employ staff from the Greek island of Lesbos.

Indeed, so anxious were the management of these bogus "Lesbian" establishments to cover up their scams, many of them refused me entrance when I asked if I could go in and poke around.

In America, you are legally prevented from selling a product labelled "Florida Orange Juice" if the fruit was grown and packaged in, say, Mexico. Similarly, in Europe, only sparkling wine produced in the vicinity of the town of Epernay may be sold as "Champagne".

Now the residents of Lesbos are fighting in the courts to protect their geographical status and to prevent fraudsters from trading on their proud name. I submit that governments around the world should support the islanders' cause by insisting that most of the products sold in Lesbian bars and clubs do actually come from Lesbos.

Please refer to this explicit, high quality Lesbian action video for further information. Thank you.
feverish

Con

This is my first debate so please be patient with me if I break any conventions.
I assume that my worthy opponent offers his argument with his tongue wedged firmly in his cheek.

This debate seems to me to come down to an issue of semantics. There are of course very few (if any) 'Lesbian' bars or clubs in London or anywhere else there are however numerous 'lesbian' establishments.

The capital letter in this case denotes a proper name as in English, Indian etc. wheras like gay clubs, strip clubs etc. no lesbian establishments would capitalise their title in this way.

Also the specific examples of Florida orange juice and French Champagne are consumable products that claim a particular origin. Obviously an establishment located in England is not claiming to have originated anywhere else.

While I admit I have never been to a lesbian club or bar, I would be extremely surprised if they sold any products described as being lesbian.

Lastly there are many 'Indian' restaurants in England (and especially my home town of Birmingham) that serve food produced and prepared outside India admittedly prepared in a (with varying degrees of authenticity) Indian style but often cooked and served by Brits of Pakistani, Bangladeshi or even white European origin. No one is trying to close down these establishments or the many 'Mexican' restaurants with entirely British staff.

While I applaud my opponents sense of humour, surely common sense must prevail and a Con vote is inevitable.
Thankyou.
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

First of all, I should like to welcome my opponent to this site and also thank him for approaching this particular debate in a suitably light-hearted manner.

Secondly, I should like to accept all his points regarding the issue of semantics as they are undeniably fair an accurate.

Instead, I should like to focus on the residents' of Lesbos' valid case - that being that the term "lesbian" has been hijacked and used inappropriately, thus besmirching their good name.

This has not only damaged their pride but also their trade. For example, if someone offered to sell you a shipment of "Lesbian tea", you might refuse assuming that it would be made out of sustainably-sourced, decaffeinated, organic nettles and that a percentage of the profits would go to fund wimmin-only drama workshops for the performance of non-gender specific, carbon-neutral, dolphin-friendly plays about the stigmatisation of menstruation in sub-Saharan Africa.

Similarly a businessman from Lesbos might do a nice line in sandals that fasten without laces which he markets as "Lesbian Strap-Ons". This would obviously have the potential to create a measure of confusion and may well deter more conservative customers from making a purchase.

Of course, homosexual women should have dedicated places to meet, just as gentlemen of a homosexual persuasion have. These establishments should be called "gay" bars as the word "gay" applies to both male and female homosexuals. Indeed, men of whatever sexual persuasion should be allowed into gay bars that cater mainly for women just as women are allowed into gay bars that are manly patronised by men - but that's a matter for a whole debate in itself!

In the final analysis, gay men don't have a separate word to describe their sexuality and nobody thinks there's anything queer about that, so why should gay women have to have their own term?

I therefore contend that the word "Lesbian" (capitalised or otherwise) should be legally reserved exclusively to describe an entity originating from the island of Lesbos.

Thank you.
feverish

Con

Thanks to my opponent for his cordial welcome, for someone who is somehow both a cockney and a mackem he is surprisingly well-mannered. (I'm joking of course, I don't believe in stereotyping by city or nationality, us brummies being perhaps one of the most stereotyped groups in the UK!)

If points were to be awarded for comedy value I'm sure that I wouldn't stand a chance, but hopefully voters will judge this debate for the strength of the arguments.

I am pleased to observe my opponents recognition of the accuracy of my points in the first round, I think we can agree that I totally negated his opening comments.

A couple of his points from round two:

'if someone offered to sell you a shipment of "Lesbian tea", you might refuse assuming that it would be made out of sustainably-sourced, decaffeinated, organic nettles'

The island of Lesbos does not produce tea so such an offer could never be made. (For a list of agricultural products they do produce see: http://en.wikipedia.org... )

'sandals that fasten without laces'

All sandals fasten without laces. Concise Oxford English Dictionary: 'sandal: a light shoe with an openwork upper or straps attaching the sole to the foot.'

'gay men don't have a separate word to describe their sexuality and nobody thinks there's anything queer about that, so why should gay women have to have their own term?'

Interesting bit of anti-sexism there. There are in fact many terms for gender-specific homosexuals both male and female. As most are usually seen as derogatory I won't print them in full on a site with rules against profanity but the most obvious ones are 'f#ggot' for men and 'd#ke' for women. In fact I would argue that that there are significantly more of these terms for men than for women; b#tty bwai, sh#t stabber, p##fter etc.

I think that I have proved here that my opponents examples (while admittedly lmfao material) are deeply flawed. I will now turn to his general argument.

Gay women have been described as lesbians since the 1800s (source:COED.) The origin, as my opponent is presumably aware, comes from the poet Sappho (the original Lesbian lesbian) who described her affection for women in verse, (some historians now believe she was actually bisexual.)

Although a few homophobic Greeks (I'm sure there's some irony there, as the ancients and even some of the Greek gods are generally believed to have been a bunch of shirt (or toga) lifters) want lesbians to stop describing themselves by this commonly ascribed term, the people of Lesbos are actually proud of their history and contrary to my opponents assertion it has benefited their trade rather than damaged it.

Lesbos is more authentically titled and pronounced as Lesvos [see: http://www.greeknet.com... ] and the Greek government once tried to change it's name to that of the Island's capitol Mytilini [see: http://news.bbc.co.uk... ] yet despite this the inhabitants still call it Lesbos mostly due to the huge lesbian tourist trade which apart from olive oil is the strongest contributor to the Lesbos economy.

Here are just a few of the many sites offering 'women-only' holidays to Lesbos:

www.lesvos.co.uk
www.sapphotravel.com/sappho/womenonly.php
www.mantrav.co.uk/women-holidays-lesvos.php?section=lesvos&expt1=11
'Our tour is for women only because women need and cherish time to themselves away ...'
www.cyclegreece.gr/pages/Unique_tour_Cycle_Lesvos.htm
www.mykonos-accommodation.com/lesbos.htm

There is even an annual 'womens festival' held every year in Errossos (the birthplace of Sappho) [see: www.womensfestival.eu/accomweb/accomdetail.php?accomid=6 ]

Think about it, there are so many other Greek islands to compete with; Santorini, Crete, Mykonos, Naxos, Paros, Corfu, Lefkada, Zakynthos, Kefalonia, Alonissos, Skiathos, Rhodes and many more, most with better weather, beaches, accommodation, nightlife etc. yet 'Loyal fans make the big island of Lesbos one of the most popular islands for repeat visitors. ...' [see: gogreece.about.com/od/greekislands/Greek_Islands_Visiting_the_Islands_of_Greece_.htm - ] this is down to lesbian tourists.

Also, no one is complaining about terms like French kiss, Glasgow kiss or Chelsea smile (although you probably would complain if someone came up to you, stuck their tongue down your throat, head butted you and then sliced both your cheeks from lip to ear with a razorblade) the term lesbian is no more damaging to Lesbians than these terms are to people who come from these places.

Lastly at the risk of being dull and pedantic, allow me to turn to my trusty COED again and examine a term my opponent used in the headline of this debate:

Impostor: (also imposter) [I won't make a big point of the fact that this site has clearly Americanised my opponent, a fellow Englishman, to the extent that he no longer uses the traditional English spelling!] n. a person who assumes a false identity in order to deceive or defraud.

Lesbians [I mean lesbians by the way and am capitalising it here as it begins this sentence] are clearly not trying to deceive or defraud anyone when they label themselves as such, and in no way are they assuming the identity of any Greek islander, therefore my opponent's central premise is clearly as false as a strap-on d#ldo.

Unfortunately the only lesbian impostors I have ever met were straight women looking for an excuse not to sleep with me.

Vote Con.
Thankyou.
Debate Round No. 2
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by brian_eggleston 5 years ago
brian_eggleston
No, it is "Lesbian" - see the explicit Lesbian video embedded in the debate for evidence.

BTW, this debate is ancient, why the sudden attention and hits?
Posted by drafterman 5 years ago
drafterman
I think the proper term to people and products from Lesbos would be "Lesbosian" not "Lesbian"
Posted by Ren 5 years ago
Ren
The Island of Lesbos exists?

That is some pretty epic information there.
Posted by feverish 8 years ago
feverish
Yes, your right Roy, as I pointed out if people judge on humour I don't have a chance. Brian is too darn funny!!
I don't however see that category on the voting screen.
No hard feelings though, thanks for checking out the debate anyway.
Posted by RoyLatham 8 years ago
RoyLatham
Funny! Hard to judge a debate that is complete nonsense. Give Brian a point for humor.
Posted by unlikely 8 years ago
unlikely
oooooh flippin ilairious...them lesbians eh!
and then football chants????
cheeeeeeeeeeeeesus what is this the small penis club...........
Posted by debatefan01 8 years ago
debatefan01
brian_eggleston:

First speech was quite funny; i did not see that coming at all.

That really made my day! :)
Posted by feverish 8 years ago
feverish
Damn, sorry Brian, couldn't see the headline when typing my round, don't know why I thought you spelled it 'imposter.'
My sincere apologies.
Debate was great fun, have to do it again some time.
Posted by feverish 8 years ago
feverish
Hey Brian, you forgot about the biggest team in Brum! and i reckon (even on here) a lot of people will know a specific chant about us (it is sung to the tune of 'roll out the barrell' ).. he he
I can't really be bothered to follow the football (sorry thats soccer for yanks) these days, just one more thing to make time for, a bit like ridiculous debates like this one!
looking forward to round 2
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
My opponent is from Birmingham! England, not Alabama!

I wonder if he is a City supporter or if he's West Bromwich Albion?

As a Sunderland fan, I'm glad West Brom are in the Premiership along with us. Not because I like them - I don't - but because when they come to play at the Stadium of Light it gives us a chance to sing:

Oh I do like to be beside the seaside,
Oh I do like to be beside the sea.
Oh I do like to walk along the prom, prom, prom,
Where the brass band plays "F*CK OFF WEST BROM"!
21 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Ren 5 years ago
Ren
brian_egglestonfeverishTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Well, clearly, Feverish is correct, and the points he raised made that clear, particularly in the final round. However, this did not detract from the fact that Brian_Eggleston made this debate sincerely enjoyable to read.
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con makes a good argument about the capitalization of letters and how the name doesn't imply anything. Pro however was far more humorous which is the intent of this debate.
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