The Instigator
FritzStammberger
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
makhdoom5
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

JESUS IS LORD (and other discrepancies between Christianity and Islam)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
FritzStammberger
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/17/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,239 times Debate No: 30354
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (88)
Votes (2)

 

FritzStammberger

Pro

1. Jesus is Lord not just a prophet as Islam teaches.

2. Let's discuss the twelfth imam

"The twelfth and final Imam is Muhammad al-Mahdi, who is believed by the Twelvers to be currently alive, and hidden until he returns to bring justice to the world.[6] "

http://en.wikipedia.org...


3. Did Jesus die on the cross?

Let us reason together.

Fritz
makhdoom5

Con

fist of all.
tell me what is the topic.
the crucifiction of Jesus AS( peace be upon him)
or imam Mahdi
both topic are really different.
if you have taken Jesus as GOD than about Mandi's topic is not relevant.
this topic have proved many time from Muslims.
and its easy to t information it.
i suppose some one should come up with some extra ordinary topics .
like talking with ALLAH and seeing him.
i saw some peoples talk here like ( i don't believe Jesus was crucified and you are wrong. that is it proved wrong)
loll
if this discussion it going to be like that than i don't want it.
but if you want a real debate than prove me Jesus is lord or god which automatically will be proved wrong when you would say he was crucified loll.
Debate Round No. 1
FritzStammberger

Pro

We will limit this debate to the crucifixion of Jesus.

- Islam teaches that Jesus never died on the cross.

EVIDENCE FROM THE BIBLE THAT JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND DIED

JESUS PREDICTED HIS OWN CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH.

Jesus was not afraid to die. In fact, He predicted His own death and resurrection

Matthew 16:21 - From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.

Luke 18:31,32 - Jesus took the twelve aside and told them, 'We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. He will be handed over to the Gentiles, they will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him, and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.'

John 12:30-32 - This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself". He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

JESUS WILLINGLY WENT TO THE CROSS

Matthew 26:53 - "Do you not think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more that twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

Matthew 26:39 - "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

John 10:18 - "No man takes it (his life) from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father".

THE NEW TESTAMENT DESCRIBES JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH.

Matthew 27:32-50, (vs 35) - When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

(vs 50) - And when Jesus had cried again with a loud voice he gave up his spirit.

Luke 23:26-46, (vs 33) - When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals - one on his right, the other on his left.

(vs 46) - Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit". When he had said this, he breathed his last.

John 19:17-30 (vs 18) - Here they crucified him, and with him two others - one on each side, and Jesus in the middle.

(vs 30) - When he had received the drink, Jesus said "It is finished.” With that he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

BIBLICAL WITNESSES TO JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH

Matthew 27:54-56 - When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God." Many women were there watching from a distance... among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.

John 19:26 - When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son", and to the disciple, "Here is your mother."

THE TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE CRUCIFIXION AFTER HIS ASCENSION

Peter speaking to the crowd at the Jewish Temple:

Acts 2:23 - "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross."

Paul speaking:

Acts 13:29 - When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in the tomb.

OTHER HISTORICAL REFERENCES AS EVIDENCE

Evidence from the JEWISH SOURCES:

Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. ... Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.

The Amoa "Ulla" (Ulla was a disciple of Youchanan and lived in Palestine at the end of the third century) adds: "And do you suppose that for (Yeshu of Nazareth - Jesus) there was any right of appeal? He was a beguiler, and the Merciful One hath said: "Thou shalt not spare neither shalt thou conceal him." It is otherwise with Yeshu, for He was near to the civil authority.

Note here that the writers of the Talmud took their job seriously. These men were Jews who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They were not Christians but they documented Christ's crucifixion.

EVIDENCE FROM ROMAN SOURCES:

Cornelius Tacitus in his Annals, xv. 44: Christus ... was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontious Pilate.

Lucian of Samosata: (Christ was) the man who was crucified in Palestine

Note here that these men were professional historians. They researched their work before publishing it. They also documented Christ's crucifixion.

Therefore, three types of witness all of whom are from the 1st or early 2nd century have been presented.

All This information is from here:
http://answering-islam.org...

I thank the source.

makhdoom5

Con

EVIDENCE FROM THE BIBLE THAT JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND DIED
JESUS PREDICTED HIS OWN CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH.
Jesus was not afraid to die. In fact, He predicted His own death and resurrection
Matthew 16:21 -
Luke 18:31,32 -
John 12:30-32 -
See ALL these scriptures were written by Matthew. Luke and john.
Who are they. I don't know. They wrote all this more than 100 years after Jesus.
And the most important.
These 3 person do not have the credibility of prophet.
http://www.biblica.com...
http://www.britannica.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
As you see in links.
There is large diversity.
You may see these books were written by the follower of prophets.
Who wrote all these under the influence or supervision of angles.
So they give it authenticity.
One more thing you may see the different version of bible.
My first point is.
Is bible 100% authentic.
As if a person eats something in morning don't remember after 2 or 3 days.
They also say. The part of bible come from peoples to peoples orally until it was written.
And also the history of bible is so old there come some times in the history.
When peoples become dominant who don't like bible at all.
Indeed the roman until they personally become christian themselves.
JESUS WILLINGLY WENT TO THE CROSS
Matthew 26:53 -
Matthew 26:39 -
John 10:18 -
Second thing is. was it not sue side to go to the Jerusalem.
What Jesus was preaching to commit sue side.
What his death had brought, nothing.
He was suppose to remain there and change and fight for right but not lose from criminal and ill gotten and misguided Jews.
You may say he died for us for our salvation.
http://www.ewtn.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
its same as Hindu do.
They do a lot of sins, kill people hurt them rape them and things like that.
As they believe if they take bath in the ganga river, than all their sin will be washed.
How bad it is.
Same is in Christianity Jesus died for salvation of human. Which means all sin are forgiven.
Which make it allowable to do whatever sin they wanted to do only the human law can tackle with them.
how bad it is.
Other thing is you said he died because it was written in book.
Is a book more valuable than a prophet or human. I don't think so Islam allow us to protect our self whatever happens.
He took the death or punishment of cursed peoples see what crucifixion means.
Odd really.
As the debate name is Jesus the lord.
How could a lord be treated like this.
Despite this many prophet were killed by the bad people.
People before but they were prophet and some mistake( not wrong or sin) they had done that's why ALLAH made the lesson for upcoming prophets.
http://www.islam101.com...
http://www.thefamouspeople.com...
here he was died like that because he took refuge in tree not in Allah's hand.
But why prophet Jesus.
THE NEW TESTAMENT DESCRIBES JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH.
Matthew 27:32-50, (vs 35)
(vs 50) -
Luke 23:26-46, (vs 33)
(vs 46) -
John 19:17-30 (vs 18) -
(vs 30) -
In our Qur'an the Jesus was not crucified.
Than what was the real story.
I am going to explain.
Jesus was suppose to crucified. He had many companion with him. Among them was a traitor or hypocrite. Every prophet know who is real believer or hypocrite.
By for hypocrite. They are not punish as they have said, they believe by tongue but the believing in heart. On which ALLAH will punish them in hell.
Its part of ALLAH rule. But some time when they cross the limit they are punished in this world.
So there was a hypocrite.
The told the Jew where is Jesus is. But ALLAH wanted him to go away from those ill gotten peoples.
As he told them ( hypocrite).
ALLAH took him for punishment.
He was with Jesus and he had already told them where they will find them.
But ALLAH took Jesus from that place alive.
And gave the same appearance to that man which the jesus had.
And than he was crucified.
So who is your Jesus. Loll.
BIBLICAL WITNESSES TO JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH
Matthew 27:54-56 -
John 19:26 -
what was that earth Quake. What was the purpose of this. If he was to die than what was that. Actully ALLAh took him and. The wrong person was hanged on cross.
THE TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE CRUCIFIXION AFTER HIS ASCENSION
Peter speaking to the crowd at the Jewish Temple:
Acts 2:23 - "
Paul speaking:
Acts 13:29 -
It is the way ALLAH take test.
Yes indeed there would be same story in bible. Which story is in Qur'an.
But for the sake of salvation or making people corrupt and letting them to do any thing or the pop or there christian scholars wanted to be free from the burden of sin they invented new theory to get rid of sin.
What a preplain idea.
OTHER HISTORICAL REFERENCES AS EVIDENCE
Evidence from the JEWISH SOURCES:
Note here that the writers of the Talmud took their job seriously. These men were Jews who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They were not Christians but they documented Christ's crucifixion.
Yes again this is research and done by simple men.
They were Jew do not satisfy me as i mention above the credibility of both are not valid.
There must be problem with both to religion. That was the reason for the new religion to come to get rid of.
EVIDENCE FROM ROMAN SOURCES:
Cornelius Tacitus in his Annals, xv. 44: Christus ... was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontious Pilate.
Lucian of Samosata: (Christ was) the man who was crucified in Palestine
Note here that these men were professional historians. They researched their work before publishing it. They also documented Christ's crucifixion.
Yes we see many contradiction in history and historian.
And how could they not say. As it was pure real. The man was crusified and he look like jesus but was he jesus.
No Jesus (AS) if we say was crucified means he could not fall in the list of prophet. The meaning of prophet is to stand against wrong not to go and let it prevail.
He had power to cure and power to make dead alive.
He had miracles.
These two miracles are true, as mention in Qur'an.
Allah always protect his prophet from harm. And his companion too.
Therefore, three types of witness all of whom are from the 1st or early 2nd century have been presented.
All This information is from here:

see this:
http://en.wikipedia.org...

there much more about the Jesus life in the article.
Again i must say.
That not any prophet died as the criminal.
If he did mistake ALLAH gave him death as a moral.
Just like i mention above.
He was cut in half because he took refuge in tree.
When he asked Allah's help.
ALLAH claimed this thing and said get this death other wise you would not be in the list of prophet. So he never complain and accepted it.
A normal person do that but if he would be hiding in cave or behind tree than ALLAH would not be angry.
Because he used power of a prophet and asked tree to hide him. this is the reason ALLAH put the punishment which should be for prophet.
Indeed it was not sin or wrong but a mistake.

Also i have used wrong language i mean it could be acceptable for you but for Muslim. They are not allow to use that language for prophet.
So I ask forgiveness from ALLAH.
And i will apologize to Jesus at the day of judgement.
Further more i used this language for the person (hypocrite) not for Jesus (AS)
The salvation i call it theory.
Thats the reason christian are killing innocent peoples throughout the world.
Debate Round No. 2
FritzStammberger

Pro

"Matthew. Luke and john.

Who are they. I don't know"

"Matthew - The early church unanimously held that the gospel of Matthew was the first written gospel and was penned by the apostle of the same name (Matt. 10:2-4). "

http://carm.org...

"Mark

Mark was not an eyewitness to the events of Jesus' life. He was a disciple of Peter and undoubtedly it was Peter who informed Mark of the life of Christ and guided him in writing the Gospel known by his name."

http://carm.org...

Luke - a historian from the first century and grandson of a disciple.

the purpose of Luke is to write a historical account,[2] while bringing out the theological significance of the history.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Luke

Luke was not an eyewitness of the life of Christ. He was a companion of Paul who also was not an eyewitness of Christ's life.

http://carm.org...

Luke also wrote the book of Acts

John - one of Jesus closest apostles.

"John

The writer of the gospel of John was obviously an eyewitness of the events of Christ's life since he speaks from a perspective of having been there during many of the events of Jesus' ministry and displays a good knowledge of Israeli geography and customs."

http://carm.org...

"They wrote all this more than 100 years after Jesus."

- more like "between 58 - 68 A.D.."

http://newsletters.cephasministry.com...

"These 3 person do not have the credibility of prophet."

- They were hand selected by the almighty creator. Today we have and study their words along side the old testament scriptures. The new testament is contained, hidden in the old testament, the old testament is properly revealed with the lense of the new testament with which to examine it through. As Chuck Missler says

"the bible is an integrated holographic message system from outside our time domain."


"Is bible 100% authentic."

- Yes, God is powerful enough to oversee it's existence.

"was it not sue side to go to the Jerusalem."

- not suicide, but mercy, the lord demonstrated his mercy to us.

"God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Romans 5:8

"He was suppose to remain there and change and fight for right but not lose from criminal and ill gotten and misguided Jews."

Jesus did not "lose" anything, he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures. conquering sin and death.

"Same is in Christianity Jesus died for salvation of human. Which means all sin are forgiven.

Which make it allowable to do whatever sin they wanted to do only the human law can tackle with them."

This is ignorant of the actual christian perspective. No true follower of Jesus thinks this way.

"How could a lord be treated like this."
Exactly, this is the ultimate display of humility, unmatched in all the universe.

God condescended to display His attributes to men. In Jesus.

"In our Qur'an the Jesus was not crucified."

This teaching is repulsive to the true followers of Jesus Christ. The whole entire bible, all 66 books from Moses to Revelation revolve around this one act. You can not interpret the scriptures without this exact 'lens' to look through. without this lens of the crucifixion of Jesus you will only get a fuzzy picture of the holographic story contained in the compilation of the bible.

Your teaching of what happened is not only illogical and filled with error but was predicted by God 600 years before it was received by Mohamad .

from who did mohamad receive the quran?

An angel?

for this was written 600 years earlier;

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Galatians 1:8

mohamad himself first thought it was a demon whom gave him this gospel, he should have known and would have known had he studied the scriptures.

I'm sorry, I know this is probably hard to hear but it is true.

Jesus Christ was the Lord God Almighty who came to earth, lived a sinless life and died for the sins of all mankind who will accept it. He rose again from the dead before over 500 witnesses, many of whom died for him and others who went on to form the foundations of the church as we have it today in the modern world. This act displays Gods holy grace to mankind and the Lord truly is our saviour.

Now I am going to really blow your mind….

A man named Ron Wyatt found the crucifixion sight of Jesus in 1982, he dug under the cross hole where there was a crack in the earth and found the lost ark of the covenant as spoken of in the scriptures. Ron took a blood sample from the ark and it was tested at a lab in Israel. The blood had 24 chromosomes, 23 from Marry and 1 y chromosome to make him male.

Think about it.

the ark of the covenant containing the ten commandments was hidden in a cave for 600 years.

When God died on the cross for the sins of all mankind, the earth shook and cracked under him. His blood poored down and ran down through the crack in the rock and dripped onto the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant.

It is time you muslims stopped asking IF Jesus died on the cross and started asking WHY?

consider this verse from Isaiah the prophet written 700 years before Jesus Death and Ressurection.

Isaiah 53

King James Version (KJV)

53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of theLord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

makhdoom5

Con

Before any thing i am going to put the true definition of prophet.
Its not the prophet responsibility to die for the sin of all humans of universe.
Also than what would be the purpose of world. Every human is suppose to test here.
The world should be ended at that very time.
Because ALLAH know who is going to do sin and who is going to do good.
And Jesus died for your sin. Which you also admitted is for salvation and what definition i gave for salvation you interpret it same way and more clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://dictionary.cambridge.org...
http://oxforddictionaries.com...
"Matthew. Luke and john.
again. Not under the supervision of Jesus.
"Mark
again disciple. Not Jesus himself or under the supervision of Jesus. Which already have been discussed and also you wasted the time for this the source i presented already mention all of this.
Again you never replied what i was asking.
How could they be authentic the prophet could be.
Luke
This most unacceptable as the grandson of disciple. And also the historian.
Its not history is religion. There must be prophet and historian both there or a writer.
All above believe but do not prove.
And the church held. In the books where it is mention that ALLAH or you call him GOD is taking responsibility for the preserver of these books.
he was eye witness of Jesus life. Not the anjeel or bible. Bible was revealed on Jesus not on them also. Did Jesus shared all bible to them.
Indeed the Qur'an was learn by heart by our prophet and there were many other companion of prophet who did this and at last sermon he read Qur'an twice in front of one hundred and fourteen thousand Muslims.
I am not saying all were hearing his voice but they were there and he mention who who know tell others. Even if it is only a verse. No doubt the first copy of Qur'an is preserved until now. Thanks to ALLAH.
Bible was not written in the time of Jesus.
How could a person the write difficult words of GOD and can remember for such long time.
Indeed they wrote, despite it was not 100 but 50 to 60 i could say that. Which means they would be young at the time of Jesus but old at the time of writing. The old man any way do not have good memory.
John
as i already put evidence in this regard if you have read i don't know. That all believe that we don't know was john a prophet or disciple.
"They wrote all this more than 100 years after Jesus."
- more like "between 58 - 68 A.D.."
http://newsletters.cephasministry.com......
s this news letter much authentic or this.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
i was write as i wrote above i saw a debate where they mention it was written 100 year after Jesus.
Now i am providing the authentic source. And the source i provided is more authentic. With better citation and with more reference.
Every body know Wikipedia.
"These 3 person do not have the credibility of prophet."
again the con argue with me here about this statement. I am going to put light on this statement.
If they are credible than they should not had contradiction even with there own statement. (Bible vs bible)
I am putting it here.
http://atheism.about.com...
thanks to atheists.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com...
"Is bible 100% authentic."
http://wiki.answers.com...
- Yes, God is powerful enough to oversee it's existence.
GOD or catholic church.
"was it not suicide to go to the Jerusalem."
- not suicide, but mercy, the lord demonstrated his mercy to us.
"God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:8
This GOD deserve more mercy than showing mercy to us.
Was this not more mean than mercy. He died so that we admire him until the day of judgement.
Was is not a show off.
Just like in Hindu religion or some old African religion.
They torture themselves for the sake of gods. That always happened in mythology.
http://oxforddictionaries.com...
a great quote by Muhammad D Makhdoom. (which is me)
" you only have faith, but fortunately we have faith as well as logic.)
our religion is nature.
anything unnatural than its not Islam.
"Jesus did not "lose" anything, he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures. conquering sin and death"
If he was raised 3rd day than what he did on 3rd day why he never gave any statement that he was crucified and raised again.
Why he left it doubt full.
And why he never killed those Jews.
One more important question.
If he died for the sin of us than he should have not been crucified by the human.
Human killed him and again human was rewarded salvation.
This do not make any sense.
Also what happened to those Jews it was also their sin to crucify Jesus. Was there sin also be forgiven.
If than was it not preplanned or cheating to ALLAH.
That hew will kill Jesus.
And Jesus will become hero and the human will worship him and the Jews who killed him will also be forgiven.
If this is not the real interpretation. Than what it mean Jesus died for the sin of human. Which you gave above.
You said we were sinner and he died for us. Not you actually but it was verse from roman.
"This is ignorant of the actual christian perspective. No true follower of Jesus thinks this way"
Than why you not explain salvation.
Its not about thinking but reality. And how can you tell about the thinking of billions of christian.
Just i cant tell the thinking of billion of Muslims. That is the reason there are some terrorist hired for this purpose.
And indeed among you are also
"How could a lord be treated like this."
Exactly, this is the ultimate display of humility, unmatched in all the universe.
God condescended to display His attributes to men. In Jesus.
Oh really.
Was it sacrifice. For this all other prophet was using sheep or camels.
See the Abraham or Moses.
http://www.merriam-webster.com...
also was this not attribute (unjust).
How could be ALLAH( GOD) unjust only for Jesus.
I think for all other prophet only prayer was enough to get any thing.
Indeed salvation is not big deal.
Why he suppose to die.
That do not make any sense.
"In our Qur'an the Jesus was not crucified."
You can not interpret the scriptures without this exact 'lens' to look through. without this lens of the crucifixion of Jesus you will only get a fuzzy picture of the holographic story contained in the compilation of the bible.
Indeed,
If crucifixion is proved wrong the whole bible is proved wrong.
Which show the people with there eye saw other man in the appearance of Jesus. They are force to write it in this way.
from who did Mohammad receive the Qur'an? An angel?
Who told you only angel.
He was also having direct revelation form ALLAH. But it was more painful.
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."
Galatians 1:8
our prophet never been cursed but was always rewarded. See in the world. And his life too.
"Mohammad himself first thought it was a demon whom gave him this gospel,"
Don't make false statement. And presenting it with out evidence it is so much wrong.
After ward all was not concerning.
Bible is contradictory, unpure, wrong, written by men not prophet, even not under the supervision of prophet.
And even you can not prove crucifixion in any way. But faith.
And you talked about the blood and DNA.
Actually its normal.
X from female and y come from male, it could be x.But if than she give birth to a girl.
Any body know merry do not have any relation with man.
In Jesus blood there must not be y chromosome.
But some kind of other thing to make him male.
Which can prove it miracle. Other wise it would be a normal birth.
Which also proves that he was not Jesus.
Thanks for giving me another argument.
Indeed i know more than you about embryology.
Debate Round No. 3
88 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
i dont have time for this.
coz u are retarded.
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
Don't bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die. 2:6-7

Allah has sickened the hearts of disbelievers and increased their disease. He is a spiritual anti-doctor. 2:10

If you try to compose a surah that is better than those in the Quran, and then fail, Allah will burn you forever if you in the fire that he has prepared for disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Allah will shed human blood while angels praise him in heaven. (The angels question why Allah has to kill people; Allah says they'd understand if they knew everything like he does.) 2:30

They who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein." 2:39

There will come a day when Allah will refuse all prayers and help no one. 2:48

Allah brags about drowning the Egyptian army. 2:50

"Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81

Christians and Jews (who believe in only part of the Scripture), will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85

"They have incurred anger upon anger. For disbelievers is a shameful doom." 90

"For disbelievers is a painful doom." 2:104

Allah will make disbelievers' lives miserable in this world and torture them forever after they die. 2:114

"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

"On the day when they behold the doom and all their aims collapse with them ... Allah is severe punishment!" 2:165-6

They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
see devient.
i can do more better than u.
u knew that but i am not in mood.
:)
got it.
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
segay u are right.
its not logical.
why is GOD suppose to be killed but ill hearten peoples..
Posted by makhdoom5 3 years ago
makhdoom5
devient.genie
stop this other wise i will report about u.
u are saying dirty words about me.
ok
Posted by devient.genie 3 years ago
devient.genie
fitzhamburger already knows he is a tard!

fitzhamburger claims he used to be an atheist!

He is a francis collins liar!
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
LOL, must have touched my douchpad at around the same time as hitting the post button, always causes double posts. Usually watch out for this, but often forget about it.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
People have to swear @ the Bible in US courts, so swearing can't be that bad. LOL
Besides, since it is possible that Jesus did not die on the cross, as there are other accounts that deny the event, not just from Islam, but the teaching of the Cathars were that Jesus simply disappeared. Some researchers thing he may have been stoned to death, but since this does not give any glory, they changed it to Cross Crucifixion to make him appear as being considered a threat by the Romans and thus glorify his death.
Yes, there are many stories and so very little evidence of what really happened.
It's so hard to know what to believe.
The Bible cannot be considered believable, as most of the accounts of Jesus were written long after his death, so the possibility of embellishment and added fiction are highly probable.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
People have to swear @ the Bible in US courts, so swearing can't be that bad. LOL
Besides, since it is possible that Jesus did not die on the cross, as there are other accounts that deny the event, not just from Islam, but the teaching of the Cathars were that Jesus simply disappeared. Some researchers thing he may have been stoned to death, but since this does not give any glory, they changed it to Cross Crucifixion to make him appear as being considered a threat by the Romans and thus glorify his death.
Yes, there are many stories and so very little evidence of what really happened.
It's so hard to know what to believe.
The Bible cannot be considered believable, as most of the accounts of Jesus were written long after his death, so the possibility of embellishment and added fiction are highly probable.
Posted by KingDebater 3 years ago
KingDebater
Swearing is for naughty people.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Deadlykris 4 years ago
Deadlykris
FritzStammbergermakhdoom5Tied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con had worse spelling and grammar. Neither side presented any persuasive argument that would conceivably sway the opinion of someone not of their own respective faiths. BOP wasn't defined at start so I consider it shared.
Vote Placed by morgan2252 4 years ago
morgan2252
FritzStammbergermakhdoom5Tied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: I'm not a Muslim, (actually, I don't believe in any relgion in particular) but I do believe that Jesus existed but did not die on the cross. To me, this was a bit of a battle of who the Bible really belonged to, and the Qur'an was mentioned also. I can easily see where both sides are coming from, however, it seems pro has better arguments. My main reason for this was being able to see verses from the Bible to see what was actually said, and being able to verify if it was valid. Undoubtedly, con did a good job of rebutting the Matthew, Luke, and John argument by saying they were written years afterward, but it seemed the John argument wasn't exactly solved. Even though I do like con's little twist at the end, I have to give arguments to pro. It seems con is trying to learn English, however, I find the spelling and grammar very distracting on his part, so I give that to pro also. Conduct and sources were good on both sides.