JFK Assassinated by Secret Service
My opponent would need to answer the following questions in order to prove this:
1. What motivation would the Secret Service have to assassinate JFK?
2. If the Secret Service assassinated JFK, then what was Lee Harvey Oswald's role in this?
3. What is the URL to your "evidence"the JFK was killed by the Secret Service? (please post on the next round)
Furthermore, here are reasons why the Secret Service did not kill JFK.
"A ten-month investigation from November 1963 to September 1964 by the Warren Commission concluded that Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, and that Jack Ruby also acted alone when he killed Oswald before he could stand trial." http://www.americanhistoryusa.com...
My opponent argues that since the agent shrugged his arms, the Secret Service killed JFK. However, this is a non sequitur; a person shrugging his arms is not conclusive evidence to make the claim that the Secret Service assassinated JFK.
For these reasons, please vote CON.
1. The deathbed confession of E. Howard Hunt, one of the agents, said they did it. What reason would he have to lie when he was about to die?
2. SS NEVER abandons the President. They did. Completely and it's on video.
3. The best snipers in the world tried to replicate Oswald's shot and none of them could do it - see Jesse Ventura.
4. As far as motives to kill him, he did lots of things the military industrial complex didn't like, such as executive order 11110, where the Federal Reserve would lose ALL its power and the US would be backed by LAWFUL Constitutional money. The Federal Reserve is a PRIVATE bank, owned by the wealthiest people in the world.
5. You look through history and find that any time a President has attempted to take away power from privately owned banks, he was assassinated, or with Jackson, attempted I believe.
I mean it's a pretty open and shut case to me. You can't say that your only argument is that, "Because he shrugged three times doesn't mean they had anything to do with it." It's not that he shrugged that is the proof of the assassination. The fact that he shrugged was simply the most important piece of evidence PROVING that they WERE ordered to walk away from the President, leaving him open and unprotected. They were in fact, ordered to walk away and leave him in the open. Period. Just look at the video. You see them all around the motorcade, until suddenly, they for some mysterious reason walk away, (and you can watch them abandon him) and then, he's shot. Come on. What you need to be asking is WHY they walked away and left him open. You did ask what motive the SS had, and I told you. Money. They very clearly had a motive, and when he was assassinated, executive order 11110 was squashed and vanished by Johnson along with his bloody corpse. The owners of the Federal Reserve were able to continue their monopoly over the US Banking system, which is a tontine, and illegal. When Woodrow Wilson signed the documents allowing the Federal Reserve to be created, he later said he regretted it as the worst mistake of his career. Why would he say that? Because he knew it took away Constitutional Lawful money and put power into the hands of the world's worst dictators like Rothschild, who said, "He who makes the gold makes the rules." Our government is run by the money changers. You wanna say that just because he shrugged his arms doesn't mean they did it, but to me, it's just the most vital clue in all this. He shrugged his arms AS he walked away, leaving the president unprotected, and that makes the Secret Service GUILTY. Otherwise they would have said, "GET BACK THERE RIGHT NOW!" They WANTED him to be unprotected. Period. As far as I see it you have no argument. It's Occam's Razor, and it's the only thing that makes sense, and it's what I think, and the way I see it. And so far you are not making me change my mind one little bit.
Reminder to opponent:
All "facts" presented in this debate should have some type of citation in order to be considered as part of the debate (and please post the URL of the website your "facts" were found). This is to ensure the legitimacy of these "facts."
Also, we are using the principal "innocent until proven guilty" for this debate, so my opponent still has the burden of proof.
One last thing: since you disliked my usage of the word "non sequitur," I will clarify the meaning. Non sequitur is defined as
"1: an inference that does not follow from the premises; specifically : a fallacy resulting from a simple conversion of a universal affirmative proposition or from the transposition of a condition and its consequent" or
"2: a statement (as a response) that does not follow logically from or is not clearly related to anything previously said"
Basic history for the audience in this debate.
The general consensus about JFK's death is that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John F. Kennedy.
Of course, conspiracy theorists believe that Oswald was very skillfully framed by other people. http://22november1963.org.uk...;
My opponent is arguing that the Secret Service assassinated JFK and framed Oswald.
My opponent states that the Secret Service assassinated JFK because, "I mean it's a pretty open and shut case for me." [Direct quote from previous post]
However, this is a logical fallacy very similar to "Personal Incredulity." https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com...
The issue with using that type of logic is that claiming that something is "open and shut" to someone does not necessarily make the claim true.
Also, my opponent keeps mentioning that the Secret Service abandoned the president "on video" but fails to provide the link to the video, even after I specifically asked for the evidence to be posted on this round.
My opponent argues that
"The fact that he shrugged was simply the most important piece of evidence PROVING that they WERE ordered to walk away from the President, leaving him open and unprotected. They were in fact, ordered to walk away and leave him in the open."
The problem with this statement is that the president himself ordered the Secret Service to "back off" http://news.discovery.com...;
My opponent also argues that Oswald did not shoot the president because his shot could not be replicated - see Jesse Ventura.
Jesse Ventura is just a conspiracy theorist who is tried to "prove" that JFK's assassination was a conspiracy. Ventura has profited off of his television series Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura. http://www.imdb.com...;
As for the deathbed confession of E. Howard. Hunt:
The "deathbed confession" that my opponent mentioned was actually a posthhumous allegation by two of Hunt's sons who were reported to have "took advantage of Hunt's loss of lucidity by coaching and exploiting him for financial gain."
For these reasons, please vote CON
There. I mean that"s your link to the video" as if you couldn"t look that up yourself? You need me to hand everything over to you on a silver platter and do all the work for you when it"s all right there?
I was at the JFK 50th anniversary, and I had a huge sign that said "AGENT STAND DOWN" with a huge image of the moment the SS walked away. Thousands of people saw me, asked me questions, interviewed me (though I don"t have links to the newspapers). Maybe a poll would be better, because every one of the hundred or so people I talked to, that took photos of me with my sign, was like, "WOW. That is very telling and off, I"ve never seen that before." It"s a fact that you don"t seem to try to oppose, even though it"s the main point. Instead you want to distract to other arguments and details. You do mention that JFK ordered them to back off, but that was, I believe, back at the airport, and they were still there despite that order, until just moments before the murder. They decided to follow that order, right before the murder, rather than when he made the order. He obviously didn"t ask them to back off at the moment they did. Why then? I have a feeling you"re going to allude in some way, rather than offer a better, "Occam"s Razor" to the actual question I"m asking. There was one person in the crowd at his 50th who looked at my poster and said, "That was back at the airport." No, it wasn"t. It was right there at Dealey Plaza.
Also, "Dea-Ley," means "Goddess Line." Practically the 33rd degree. Masonry has 33rd degrees and JFK spoke against Secret Societies. Dealey Plaza was actually a Masonic Temple at one time. Isn"t that interesting? So I"m not interested in logical fallacy talk. Or your "proof" that Howard Hunt"s confession was somehow "extracted for monetary gain," simply because of some news article. I"ve read that 95% of the NEWS companies are owned by 6 people. And I"m not agreeing with what you say about Ventura. Though I disagree with him on a lot, many have tried to make the shot, professional snipers, and were unable to do it. Just because he"s a conspiracy theorist doesn"t mean you can exclude his argument that the shot, with that particular gun, was practically impossible, never mind the "magic bullet theory." You can look that up, or I can give you a source if you"d like, or never heard of it like everyone else. The consensus by most people is that it doesn"t add up.
The timing of the Stand Down order was very strange. And Wikipedia isn"t really a source, since anyone can change what it says at any time.
My opponent accuses me of "distract[ing him] to other arguments and details," so in response to my opponent's video:
"The logical explanation for the 'stand down' gesture is that the Secret Service agent was waving goodbye to his colleagues and returning to his assignment.
Secret Service agent Clint Hill (who can be seen running to the left of the vehicle in the video posted in the question details above) identifies 'The Shrugging Man' as agent Don Lawton. He confirms in an interview for C-Span on November 8th 2010 that agent Don Lawton's assignment was not to ride in the follow-up car. Instead, he was to remain at Love Field and ensure the security of the airport for the President's return later that day.
Clint Hill claims that the shrugging gesture by Don Lawton was simply to wave goodbye to the motorcade, wishing them a good trip. Viewing the video segment with this knowledge acutely changes our perception of his actions and makes his account seem plausible.
His job was not to ride in the fall car. He was supposed to remain at Love Field and secure the airport for when we came back. He saying that he was going to lunch, "Have a good trip." I talked to him within the last month, he really reiterated it to me, the same thing.
-Secret Service agent Clint Hill
Agent Don Lawton's statement to the Warren Commission is available online, in it he explains his duties for that day.
I was assigned to the Press Area upon arrival and my instructions were to remain at the airport to effect security for the President's departure.
-Secret Service agent Don Lawton
Further evidence of Don Lawton being assigned to remain at Love Field airport is outlined in the witness statement of Secret Service agent Emory Roberts.
SA Donald Lawton of 8 a.m.-4 p.m. shift remained at Love Field with SA Warner and Rybka to set up security for the President's departure for Bergstrom AFB, Austin, Texas. The Presidential aircraft was due to depart Dallas at 2:35 p.m.
-Secret Service agent Emory Roberts
There is a considerable body of evidence that suggests that agent Don Lawton was not ordered to stand down. Instead, his shrugging gesture is his unique way of wishing his colleagues a good lunch."
AOP forfeited this round.
My opponent forfeited his round.
Advance all arguments.
Since my opponent failed to fulfill his burden of proof, please vote CON.
AOP forfeited this round.
Advance all arguments and please vote CON.
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