The Instigator
Dyankovich
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
jacobgunter
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

Jacobgunter started what I thought would be a great debate topic... Lets go from where he left off-

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,014 times Debate No: 2470
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

Dyankovich

Pro

I am in favor of the 'No child left behind' program. My opponent is against it. He began a very well said debate on the issue, but was foiled by someone with the comment "Your mom." I would like to have an actual debate on the issue, as I am sure he would as well...

I believe that no child left behind is a system that needs some work, I will admit it, but a great program non-the-less.

I took my opening arguement from actual facts. The No Child Left behind (actual website).
http://www.ed.gov...

NCLB Benefits Children, Empowers Parents, Supports Teachers and Strengthens Schools.

All children are counted under NCLB, and schools are responsible for making sure every child is learning.
Parents are given unprecedented information and new options for their children, which may include free tutoring.
Teachers utilize assessment data and scientifically based teaching methods to improve classroom instruction.
Schools identified as in need of improvement receive extra help and resources to raise student achievement.
Multiple studies and reports show that student achievement is rising across America:

The long-term Nation's Report Card (NAEP) results, released in July 2005, showed elementary school student achievement in reading and math at all-time highs and the achievement gap closing.

For America's nine-year-olds in reading, more progress was made in five years than in the previous 28 combined.
America's nine-year-olds posted the best scores in reading (since 1971) and math (since 1973) in the history of the report. America's 13-year-olds earned the highest math scores the test ever recorded.
Reading and math scores for African American and Hispanic nine-year-olds reached an all-time high.
Math scores for African American and Hispanic 13-year-olds reached an all-time high.
Achievement gaps in reading and math between white and African American nine-year-olds and between white and Hispanic nine-year-olds are at an all-time low.
The state-by-state Nation's Report Card results, released in October 2005, showed improved achievement in the earlier grades in which NCLB is focused. In the last two years, the number of fourth-graders who learned their fundamental math skills increased by 235,000—enough to fill 500 elementary schools!

Across-the-board improvements were made in mathematics and in fourth-grade reading.
African American and Hispanic students posted all-time highs in a number of categories.
Forty-three states and the District of Columbia either improved academically or held steady in all categories (fourth- and eighth-grade reading and fourth- and eighth-grade math).
The Nation's Report Card Trial Urban District Assessments for Reading and Math, released in Dec. 2005, showed students in select urban school districts improving faster than their peers over the last two years.

Fourth-graders in 8 of 10 urban districts made larger gains in math than the national average.
Fourth-graders in 7 of 10 urban districts made larger gains in reading than the national average.
Eighth-graders in 7 of 10 urban districts made more progress in basic math skills than the national average.
The Nation's Report Card Science 2005 Report found significant academic gains by fourth-graders.

Overall, fourth-graders improved four points in science achievement over 1996 and 2000 levels, with the lowest-performing students making the largest gains.
African American and Hispanic fourth-graders made significant gains as well, narrowing the achievement gap.
And the Nation's Report Card Trial Urban District Assessment for Science, released in Nov. 2006, showed narrower achievement gaps for low-income students than for the entire student body, between nearly all of the participating school districts and the nation.

President Bush's FY 2007 budget request demonstrates his continued commitment to education, with dramatic funding increases over 2001 for key education programs, including:

29% increase in total Federal education funding (from $42.2 billion in 2001 to $54.4 billion in 2007);
33% increase in total K-12 funding (from $27.3 billion in 2001 to $36.3 billion in 2007);
40.4% increase in total NCLB funding (from $17.4 billion in 2001 to $24.4 billion in 2007);
45% increase in Title I (from $8.8 billion in 2001 to $12.7 billion in 2007);
68.5% increase for Special Education (IDEA) grants to states (from $6.34 billion in 2001 to $10.7 billion in 2007); and
Quadrupled funding for reading (from $286 million in 2001 to $1.2 billion in 2007) (a 300% increase).
jacobgunter

Con

Thank you for actually being willing to debate me. Nobody else has really tried.

First I would like to say that Im really busy, so I will give more in depth attacks on your case after my debate tourney this weekend.

The main attack that I would like to make however is that the source that you used is coming from the government website. It would be in their best intrest to promote their own funding.

Once again thank you thank you thankyou for really debating. I hope that it doesnt turn into a divisive, but more of an educating debate.

Good luck

Here is my case.

There are some things in this world that are inherently good. Some things that are meant to be created for the betterment of humanity. However, not all of these have succeeded in the past. Take for exam-le, communism, it was a good idea, but a bad practice. NCLB suffers from the same problem.

• NCLB (No Child Left Behind) has been a failure to educate the youth of today. According to www.nochildleft.com, Nov. 21 2006

With its narrow focus upon math and reading test scores, NCLB (No Child Left Behind) is seen by some as a dangerous experiment that threatens to disrupt and dilute the education of millions of children. Hidden within this law and the rules promoted by the Ed Department are dozens of changes that are untested, unproven and laced with political motives that could do great damage to public education.

• NCLB was made as an attempt to increase votes to the Republican Party. According to Marianne and David McGrath, www.cod.edu, January 27, 2004
This colossal mistake began as a campaign strategy for garnering votes, whereby George Bush imagined he could fulfill his pledge to be the "education president" by embracing the education reform movement's latest mantra of testing, testing and more standardized testing. The result is that, sadly, the history of come-and-go fads like new math or forced busing is being repeated, insofar as the weight of federal law has been applied to yet another fanciful trend concocted by educational theorists who, like the education president, have likely never taught a single minute in an elementary or secondary classroom.
• The increasingly visible flaws of the "No Child Left Behind" law and the growing, bi-partisan criticisms of its provisions demonstrate that the law will do more harm than good. According to www.fairtest.edu July 12th, 2005
NCLB's test-and-punish approach to school reform relies on extremely limited, one-size-fits-all tools that reduce education to little more than test prep programs. It produces unfair decisions and requires unproven, often irrational approaches to complex educational problems
• There are other more successful plans out there, such as Florida's A+ Plan. According to www.edreform.com
Jeb Bush's A+ plan has been extremely successful with it's appropriated school grading system. It has been much more successful than the federal program NCLB, and has received a great deal of recognition as a potential education reform to the current system.
• The State of Utah has repealed NCLB and has seen a drastic rise in test scores since repealing it.

• NCLB has a pass or fail system that does not correctly grade schools. It doesn't provide multiple grades for schools in order to appropriately fund
them

NCLB is unconstitutional. Article 1 sec. 8, art. 2 sec. 2, and art. 3 sec. 2 of the constitution show what the federal government is allowed to do. Anything else is a reserved power of the state due to the tenth amendment. national education is not included, and thus is unconstitutional

NCLB is extortion. NCLB is an unfunded federal mandate meaning that it makes rules that the states have to follow without providing funding, and actually will decrease federal funding of other state programs if not adopted by any state.

• NCLB is a program with good intentions. However, It's form and practice has ultimately been a failure. Therefore, may it be resolved by this student congress that the federal program, NCLB, be either amended or abolished
Debate Round No. 1
Dyankovich

Pro

Well to start I would like to state that i'm a Democrat... So i'm not really that big of a fan of the NCLB program that President George W. Bush has re-initiated... or really of the current program in general. I am debating my opponent on this issue for two reasons...
1. Because educated debate is never a bad thing...
2. Because he has had trouble getting anyone educated to respond to him on this subject... So I thought I would step in.

While I agree with you an many issues about this program, I must state this. You do not wish this subject to continue at all. And I see this as an oversight of a potentially amazing program... if it were given the message and funding that it rightfully deserves.

If a program thats sole objective is to help children in less fortunate schools is to be eliminated from the budget and from the national agenda, then we as Americans should truly see ourselves as failures. This is a program that has proved to be over 300% effective if conducted in the right climates. The right climates being in schools where the teachers are 100% hands on, and are micro managed by higher up elected school officials who have the students best interests at heart, 300% effectiveness is a highly shocking number.

If one student was getting an f in history class, and the NCLB program helped that student, and others to get up to a B grade... which is what this program has done... Then (300)students would be helped. Of course there are 105 million children in our public school system, imagine what that could be...

I got my initial figures from the national website, and those numbers are accurate. They are on there after being submitted by a congressional panel after hours of studies were committed. These numbers were not made up for the government by some long haired lackey, but from actual parents who saw improvement in their children after this program took effect; and congress who went back and evaluated it before giving it funding.. Your website on the other hand is independently ran and operated and is far more succeptable to false numbers. The basis of my argument is this, if the system is failing, but is good in virtue, why abolish it?

I'll put it to you this way... If you were managing a company and one of your employees was faltering, but you saw great potential in him given the right tools... would you fire him, or would you help him succeed with advice and nurturing? That is the No Child Left Behind Program. I think we should work out the kinks and nurture it until it works so well that students in the worst inner city schools are going to Ivy League schools on their own Merritt's, not abolish it and leave these kids to live and grow up with out any support. That is what I believe America is actually about. Helping each other.
jacobgunter

Con

Thank you for debating once again.

Im really sorry that I am posting at the last second, but I was at a tournament all weekend.

I wont hold it against you if you are aggravated by this.

I also would like to thank you for stepping outside of what your personal beliefs are, its always good to see that in people (it shows open-mindedness)

On to the debate.

I will start by attacking what my opponent has said, and then move on to my case.

While I will grant you the fact that NCLB has been successful in various cases, the federal program has not worked everywhere.

If it is successful in certain areas or certain states, then it is the job of the county, region, or state government to issue the standards for the education of the students. If NCLB works in that region, then let it exist there, but the federal government shouldnt be allowed to have such an idea as NCLB because it doesnt work everywhere.

Take for example the state of Utah. They abolished NCLB and suffered the consequence of losing federal funding. They have recently seen a surge in the proficiancy and success of their students when they passed their new standards.

You discussed that you wouldnt fire a worker who shows potential but not any immediate effect. However, if you see the potential in the part/job that he is in, then you should wait. This argument is easily turned to my case because it shows how the potential of an individual entity can somethimes be worth the long-term investment. You would never have a policy as a business worker where you keep every employee until they prove their worth, but instead base it on an individual level of the worker. Now cross-apply that logic to the federal (boss) and state (worker) level education standards. (I dont know how clear this is, so you just need to ask for clarification if you dont get it.)

Flow through all of my arguments about the unfunded mandate, unconstitutionality, and inconsistency from state to state that NCLB posseses

If you have any questions that you would like to ask, Say them at the start of your next argument and I will answer them afterwards. Also feel free to use the comments to ask questions so you dont waste a speech doing it.

Thanks again.
Debate Round No. 2
Dyankovich

Pro

Hey jacobgunter, No worries, I like stepping out of my comfort zone and hitting the debates I usually wouldn't. NCLB is a great theory of what a program could be...

I'm glad to have somebody savvy who isn't a complete dunce. Make sure to see my debate on entitlements if you want an example of bad ideas, or the one on Barrack Obama...

Anyways enough of me ranting on ways and means, to the issues!

I think the Federal Government should have a firm grip on NCLB. It must choke hold the states, and make sure they act uniformly to have SOME policy. However, punishing a state (Utah) for just not using NCLB is Republican hogwash, thats not the kind of choke holding I meant. As I understand it (and you have stated it) Utah created their own program and did well... They should make the states use NCLB unless they come up with an idea that proves to be more successful in small areas first then state wide later.

You said-
"You discussed that you wouldn't fire a worker who shows potential but not any immediate effect. However, if you see the potential in the part/job that he is in, then you should wait. This argument is easily turned to my case because it shows how the potential of an individual entity can sometimes be worth the long-term investment. You would never have a policy as a business worker where you keep every employee until they prove their worth, but instead base it on an individual level of the worker. Now cross-apply that logic to the federal (boss) and state (worker) level education standards."

I stand by my original statement. I don't believe that my view turns to work for you as you stated, and I don't think anyone reading this will think that either.

As a Property Manager and as a member of the Navy, I do in fact have that policy of not leaving employees to hang. If I see someone is struggling, I don't give them three chances and then just cut them loose. I make sure they understand the policies, and procedures. As a matter of fact I hardly ever fire anyone except those with gross insubordination. My staff is remarkable because I nurture them, and teach them how to do things better. That is what no child left behind is supposed to be. You can do that with any program.

If my company Vice President came and employed my management skills all the way across the board to everyone in the company, i'm sure it wouldn't work everywhere... But it would be a start and it would be organized. Maybe another office would have a better solution, we could employ their ideas too. That is the idea for NCLB. Everyone congregates to help each other. The program isn't perfect, but its a good theory and worthy of fighting for in my opinion. But the Bush Administraion listens to nobody, and does nothing it should.

As a student in Florida I have to scoff at your "Jeb Bush" plan. He is the worst thing that ever happened to public education. You can site edreform.com all you want, but I lived it, and his program sucks.

Here is why... I was left behind. (No kidding, I was.) Somehow in math I found myself studying explorations in math while others my age were into geometry. Maybe it was that girls were on my mind, or maybe it was I didn't eat the proper amount of peanut butter in the mornings, butI was never given the tools to succeed, never helped, and I failed the FCAT (Florida's standardized testing method,- you have to pass it to graduate.) 6 times. It was a joke. So I left Florida (not for that reason) and went to Ohio and got myself a tutor at school. (Florida public schools seldom have programs like that.) I passed the Ohio Proficiency math test with a 96% and shortly after I had an IQ test done, and I tested high. Then I took my ASVAB test and got a 92 and joined the Navy. So why is it that I couldn't do well in Florida?
Because I was left behind. Jeb Bush had no idea what he was doing, and that is why his school systems showed improvement, but had the highest dropouts in the nation. (NY TIMES) Some of the smartest people I knew fell victim to the standardized testing he created. They would tell us to study one thing, and the test would be completely different. If I had stayed in Florida's educational penal system, I wouldn't have graduated, and wouldn't be the man I am today. No Navy, no Property Management. No success, and no help.

I had to get it on my own, with help from Governor Stricklands Ohio education program.

As for it being unconstitutional, I disagree. I think it is within the Governments rights to force education on an ignorant society.
jacobgunter

Con

Once again thanks for a good debate, Im tired of winning by default.

On to the debate

Im going to attack your arguments first, then move to my case.

I still cant emphasis this point enough. If a worker is doing a good job even though he is outside of the standard procedure, you should not fire or punish him. TO do the same to states like Utah who have a better program is unjust, and illogical. The government should be looking at what helps the people the best. The best way to do this within the realms of education is to let the states, who exert control over education via the tenth amendment, enact their own local policies. What works in Alaska for the kids may not work in California. By leaving the individual policies to the states, they are able to create policy that works best in that region.

I would also like to point out that a national program like NCLB limits the outward thinking of students. Take for example in my state, CO, I had an Algera class with some fellow upper-level students. While in the class we discovered more effective means to solving various problems then what the curriculum taught. THe teacher took off points for developing our own, more effective procedure. THis shows how such a federal program is unsuccessful.

On to my case.

I would still like to hear your answer to my argument of NCLB has a pass-fail system.

I stand firm that Utah is the case study of the effectiveness of the state level education system. You admitted that Utah has been successful, and they are being punished for it.

I also MUST bring up the importance of the unconstitutionality of NCLB. It violates the states rights, and the ttenth amendment. The constant breaking of the constitution by our federal government will be the downfall of this country.

I have more, but I have to go to school now.
Debate Round No. 3
Dyankovich

Pro

This is the last round and I sincerely hope that it isn't offensive to you. Thank you for the debate and I am glad we made it all four rounds.

Here goes,
Jacobgunter... You are just repeating the things I said in my last argument...

Here is what I said-
"However, punishing a state (Utah) for just not using NCLB is Republican hogwash, thats not the kind of choke holding I meant. As I understand it (and you have stated it) Utah created their own program and did well... They should make the states use NCLB unless they come up with an idea that proves to be more successful, in small areas first then state wide later."

Here is what you said-
"TO do the same to states like Utah who have a better program is unjust, and illogical. The government should be looking at what helps the people the best."

Now the difference in my statement and yours is nothing... except at the end, I offered a solution, where you did not.

Allow States to have their own method, and let them start in smaller regions and test the theory. I believe (as a democrat no less) in smaller government, less intrusion... But when it comes to school systems and education, I think the government needs a broader role.

Stop saying NCLB in unconstitutional, it was voted in the Supreme Court not to be. Your opinion is here-say, the federal court said it is not, along with 32 state supreme courts.

I already said the same program doesn't work everywhere as well, I feel as if you copied my argument down and reworded it.

Of course it doesn't work everywhere. But the same general things are taught are they not? English, Math, Science, ect... Are these subjects different in Alaska? Are there not classes in Alaska who could benefit from the words of Shakespeare? There should be a general consensus of how NCLB works, and an outline to follow. Thats it. The rest should be up to the states. If Alaska wants to throw in Eskimo poetry, let them. If South Florida wants to throw in spanish courses... let them too. As long as there is a general innovative plan and everyone is on that page when the day is over.

This seems to be your major argument...What you said about your algebra class sounds more like a dumb teacher than anything. It is not federally mandated anywhere that a student must do his work a certain way or be docked points. I will give you this, if you can find me the document, article and page of where it says it is federally mandated that a teacher should do this, I will concede this debate right here.

It doesn't show how the federal government program is unsuccessful Jacob, it shows exactly what I have been saying. That is a faculty issue, not a national one.

There is nothing wrong with a pass fail system. Everything is a pass fail system. When I took the ASVAB test, if I would have gotten under a 34 I would have failed and not been able to serve. When you take a field sobriety test, if you can blow under .08 you pass, if not you fail. Life is a pass fail system, so why wouldn't school testing be too? The only people I hear complaining about the pass fail system are on the losing end of it. School wise, it should definitely be pass/fail. But the students should be given the tools to pass, and the ones who fail should be given the help to redeem themselves. Cause trust me, school is the last time that anyone will care if you get left behind. Life is a lot harder.

Yes I did say Utah did well... But go to www.onlineutah.com Their education system wasn't implemented overnight, it was a building process. Just like what I say the NCLB should help with. I also admitted that they were wrong to be punished for not using it. Once again Jacob I will say it.... Please pay attention this time.

---There should be a national No Child Left Behind Program that helps and forces poor and medium performing states to have a standard way of doing things. If a state comes about and has a better idea that they have been trying, they should be able to implement that theory into the system.----

The problem with your argument is that you blame everything on the government. Your teacher sucks so you blame the federal government... That is why you don't support the system. You have thrown numbers and facts and figures from various questionable websites. But what it truly came down to was a bad teacher in your algebra class.

I seen earlier too that you said it was created to be political. I actually laughed when I read that. Jacob, everything is political. Do you think that the New Deal for Roosevelt was 100% for the good of America? How about Bill Clinton's Nation health care program? Every single program that anyone creates is created for political reasons. If nobody cares, then what is the point of them iniating it?

::Theoretically:: If tomorrow kids started downloading music from websites and a large named band popped up, well just call them Metallica...and said that isn't fair, and all the support of the music industry fell on Washington, how long do you think it would take the bureaucrats to initiate a program called the "Internet Protection Agency?" You think lawmakers care if i'm downloading bestiality pornography? Nope. But they sure do care if I download a CD...
Everythings political.

People care about education, and in turn that is how democracy works, because they are forced to care about what we do. We have all the power. We run the issues.

Ohhhhhh here we go again Jacob, for the 6th time you have said it's unconstitutional...

There once was a guy named Jacobgunter, who was kinda smart
But he showed otherwise by repeatedly calling NCLB unconstitutional on its part
When really he was like a parrot who repeated untrue facts
He loses the debate because he has nothing original except personal setbacks

-Because his entire argument is about something that has been elaborated by the supreme court and shown to NOT BE UNCONSTITIONAL. And because his only personal feelings on this are based on a bad teacher who docked points off of him for being smart. I can't see how he can turn me around on this debate. He argued pretty well, but in the end his opinions don't hold up to my arguments weight. I have supported my statements with solid, verifiable facts and Jacobgunter has actually repeated my statements as his own, but offering no real solutions. I say we do not abolish the no child left behind program, but continue to work on it, bipartisanly, until it works well for everyone. I have already stated that this program has a 300% effective rating and proven it.

Thanks for the debate Jacobgunter, I am glad we got to have it.
jacobgunter

Con

Nice. Good outline, very clear point to point and I appreciate that.

Im not going to take anything personally. Its debate. it always get alittle underhanded and cruel in rounds. Outside of rounds though, its all good.

Nice Rhyme... Maybe Ill make one too.

Thanks for a great debate.

You said
"However, punishing a state (Utah) for just not using NCLB is Republican hogwash, thats not the kind of choke holding I meant. As I understand it (and you have stated it) Utah created their own program and did well... They should make the states use NCLB unless they come up with an idea that proves to be more successful, in small areas first then state wide later."

Regardless of whether NCLB is R hogwash, it does punish any states that have another program that may be more successful. We are debating NCLB in its exact form. The punishing of states flows through the round, and we have to see that it is unacceptable.

You said
Now the difference in my statement and yours is nothing... except at the end, I offered a solution, where you did not.

I did offer a solution. abolish NCLB and let the states decide. That sounds like a clear solution to me.

You said
Allow States to have their own method, and let them start in smaller regions and test the theory. I believe (as a democrat no less) in smaller government, less intrusion... But when it comes to school systems and education, I think the government needs a broader role.

Granted, education may be one thing that the government should be especially involved in. However your argument is saying that its OK to try different policy in local areas. With NCLB, you cant do that without losing the states federal education funding. THerefore they cant try to do that without being punished.

You said
Stop saying NCLB in unconstitutional, it was voted in the Supreme Court not to be. Your opinion is here-say, the federal court said it is not, along with 32 state supreme courts.

Granted, the supreme court ruled it constitutional. The only way they did it was arguing interstate commerce. This argument is used to increase the scope of the government. Also, just because they say it is constitutional, doesnt mean its true. If somebody passed a bill to limit ones freedom of religion and the supreme court said it was constitutional doesnt make it so. Keep in mind they also legalised slavery, and segregation, Japanese intern camps, etc. so its not like they are right all time.

I agree that the same subjects are taught everywhere, but its the style by which you teach them. People in one state may do better with theory, in another state with practice.

You said
There is nothing wrong with a pass fail system. Everything is a pass fail system. When I took the ASVAB test, if I would have gotten under a 34 I would have failed and not been able to serve. When you take a field sobriety test, if you can blow under .08 you pass, if not you fail. Life is a pass fail system, so why wouldn't school testing be too? The only people I hear complaining about the pass fail system are on the losing end of it. School wise, it should definitely be pass/fail. But the students should be given the tools to pass, and the ones who fail should be given the help to redeem themselves. Cause trust me, school is the last time that anyone will care if you get left behind. Life is a lot harder.

I agree that you either pass or fail a class, but you should be graded appropriately. If you only pass by one point, then you still passed, but are treated as a nearly failing school. If you only fail by one point, you should be treated as a barely failing school. A passing grade is a D in my school, but you wont go very far with it, so a passing grade doesnt mean a whole lot. Schools should be gaded on a scale, not on a pass-fail.

Yes, I do blame a lot of the problems on politics. you yourself said everything is political, so I can blame everything on politics because you granted me that argument.

I agree that people care about education, but the best way to care abou tthat is to do it at the local level by repealing NCLB

dyankovich, dyankovich, oh you are a silly kind
You supported a bad policy called No Child Left Behind
You think the best way to run a school
is with an idea that is way uncool

You break the constitution, and all its great intent
with the hopes of changing kids, for all our betterment
But here I must say, that your arguments are full of folly
And it is because of that, that I urge a vote for me

Thanks for a great debate. Its the best Ive had so far.

Peace Out!

I also would like to say that I admire your serving in the Military. Kudos for that.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by betsythebrave 8 years ago
betsythebrave
DyankovichjacobgunterTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by FiredUpRepublican 9 years ago
FiredUpRepublican
DyankovichjacobgunterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by jacobgunter 9 years ago
jacobgunter
DyankovichjacobgunterTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03