The Instigator
alexfalse
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
BlackVoid
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

James Harrison hit on Clevland Browns Colt McCoy

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
BlackVoid
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/14/2011 Category: Sports
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,748 times Debate No: 19879
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (3)

 

alexfalse

Pro

James Harrison was suspended for one game for his hit on McCoy.
Harrison, a Linebacker for the Steelers hit McCoy when he was running outside of the pocket.

I will be arguing that the hit was legal and clean.
BlackVoid

Con

Thanks for the debate. I look forward to seeing your argument.



The following video shows the hit. I'll argue that it was illegal by NFL rules and that James Harrison deserved his suspension for the hit. I don't think its even close, but I'll see what Pro has to say. Good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
alexfalse

Pro

The hit Colt McCoy received last Thursday night was ugly. It was painful just to watch. It was possibly the hardest hit of the year thus far. The hit was so hard QB Colt McCoy said he cant even remember being hit. He received a concussion due to the play, and is unlikely to be seen on the field for the rest of the season.

I Agree that the hit was hard. I agree that it is unfortunate for Colt McCoy. I agree that concussions are a serious thing today in the NFL. HOWEVER I do not agree that this hit was illegal. We can all agree that football is a contact sport. The definition of contact sport from freedictionary.com is, " A sport in which the participants necessarily come into bodily contact with one another."

When one plays a contact sport such as football, a hit like this is bound to happen sooner rather then later. We have seen some pretty nasty hits that have been rule legal, and this one should be considered legal as well.
BlackVoid

Con

The NFL rules ban helmet-to-helmet hits, or hits where 2 helmets hit each other with high force (1). Additionally, the NFL bans a tackler "using his helmet to butt, spear, or ram an opponent." James Harrison's hit broke both rules.

If you look at 0:55 of the video (full screen helps) its blatantly obvious that Harrison ran his helmet right into McCoy's head. His helmet was also the primary hit Harrison used ot make the tackle, rather than his shoulder. These are both illegal.

Pro himself would bring up that McCoy was concussed on the play and is likely out for the season. A concussion is caused by severe trauma to the head. So right there you know that Harrison illegaly blasted McCoy's helmet.



My opponent doesn't really prove that the hit was legal or clean. He just says that football is a contact sport and that we should tolerate hard hits. I agree. Hard hits are great, and legal, as long as they're not in the wrong places. We see hard hits all the time in the NFL that aren't illegal.

He also says that there have been other nasty hits that weren't penalized, so we shouldnt penalize this one. This isn't much of an argument; its like saying that since the police let one convicted felon walk free, we should let them all walk free. Just because some people have gotten off scotch-free with illegal hits doesn't mean the rule shouldn't be enforced.

The helmet rule is also necessary. The head is the most sensitive part of the body to football hits, and jarring it too strongly causes concussions as McCoy got.

I admit that the rules protecting quarterbacks are too much, but the issue here is a helme to helmet hit, which we should all agree is bad. Had Harrison hit McCoy somewhere else on his body and not used his helmet as a battering ram, the hit would have been clean.


Good luck to my opponent.


1. http://en.wikipedia.org...
2. http://www.nfl.com...
Debate Round No. 2
alexfalse

Pro

DO NOT WATCH VIDEO UNTIL INSTRUCTED TO AFTER FIRST PARAGRAPH

To be honest I don't even think the hit was even worth a flag. The new rules protect the QB way to much. When McCoy tucked the ball in and started to run out of the pocket, he is considered a eligible player and you do whatever is neccesary to get him down. Lets play the same scenario, but instead of 6'1 216 pound McCoy, the QB is 6'5 250 pound Cam Newton. If James Harrison made the same hit on Cam Newton when he was running out of the pocket with the ball, we will not be having this discution. The NFL cannot dish out penalties and suspensions whenever they please. They have to be consistent. James Harrison, who has been the target of many fines from the NFL front office last year, is the first player to ever get a suspension for an on field situation. The NFL has it out for James Harrison and are trying to make him the poster boy for fines and suspensions. Its basically saying, hit someone to hard and you will end up like James Harrison.

To prove my point please watch this clip and see for yourself.

Colt McCoy knew the consequences when he left the pocket. he was making himself an eligible player and was hit the same way a running back or a receiver would have been hit in the open field. He ran out of the pocket, tucked the ball in as if he was going to run for the first down, and when he saw James Harrison coming, he cowardly threw the ball at the last second. If you go back to the video Con posted in round 1, then you can clearly see that James Harrison was going to hit McCoy in the chest with his shoulder, HOWEVER, Colt McCoy got scared and ducked to some how avoid being hit. I am not saying McCoy is a coward or didn't take it like a man or anything else like that. Believe me I would have probably done the same thing if I saw Harrison chasing me down, but the fact of the matter is Harrison was intended on hitting him clean, and he would have if McCoy didn't duck his head. The NFL should have taken that into consideration before sentencing Harrison with a serious fine. This fine does two things; it doesn't allow one of Pittsburgh's best defensive players to play against a very good San Francisco 49ers team and second it keeps Harrison from receiving almost $50,000 because it is a suspension without pay.

James Harrison did appeal the NFL's decision yesterday, and they are still deciding if they will grant him access to play on Monday Night or not.

I would like to thank my opponent for such a good debate, and I will also like to thank everyone who will take the time to read this whole debate. It doesn't matter if you are a steelers fan, a Browns fan, or if you do not even like football, the answer if it was a clean hit or not lies in the video. Watch as McCoy ducks and Harrison hits with his shoulder. Notice how it would have been clean if McCoy didn't duck. McCoy was out in the open field and was considered a live player. This his is clean and legal for those reasons.

Thank you.
BlackVoid

Con

I also thank my opponent for the quick debate.

Pro has not responded to and thus agrees to the following:

1. Harrison hit McCoy's helmet with his own, which is illegal.
2. Harrison led the tackle with his helmet, which is illegal.
3. Helmet to helmet rules are legitimate due to health concerns.
4. Just because some other dirty hits weren't penalized doesn't mean this one shouldn't be.


My opponent has one main argument last round; McCoy ducked just before the tackle, which is why Harrison "accidentally" hit his helmet.

I'm not sure what video my opponent is looking at here. Go to full screen at 0:55 of the video. McCoy was standing up straight the entire time. He never ducked. Harrison's tackling angle was coming for his helmet from the start. The conclusion is obvious.

He also says that McCoy was eligible for a big hit since he was running around outside the pocket. This is irrelevant because helmet to helmet hits are illegal for any player, eligible or not. Even attacking a 250 pound runningback's helmet is illegal.

He also thinks that had a bigger quarterback like Cam Newton been hit on his helmet, Harrison wouldn't have been flagged. Again, helmet to helmet hits are illegal no matter who the players are. The NFL rules I sourced last round don't distinguish players based on their weight, and don't specify that in certain circumstances, helmet hits are ok. They're always illegal.


Conclusion

Harrison's hit clearly violated two NFL rules regarding use of the helmet. McCoy did not force Harrison to hit his helmet by ducking, look at the video for yourself. Conclusion - Harrison, as he's done several times before, was so over-eager in looking for a highlight real tackle that he ignored safety procedures.




Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by alexfalse 5 years ago
alexfalse
I agree with you Ore_Ele on your comment. I saw the video and wanted to use it, but the only negative thing about the video i has was the ending. i apoligize for the video.
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
You know what was most annoying by that video in round 3? That at the end it said that "the NFL will more than likely force YouTube to deactivate my account for this video." I really hate when people throw around pre-emptive victim cards (and the video has been up for more than 1 year now).
Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
Ouch. Tennis, anyone?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by WriterSelbe 5 years ago
WriterSelbe
alexfalseBlackVoidTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Ldf reasoning
Vote Placed by Lickdafoot 5 years ago
Lickdafoot
alexfalseBlackVoidTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I don't watch football so i don't know why i read this lol, but Con showed clear evidence that the hit was not legal. Pro's main points, that the person ducked, and that other players have made harder hits, were refuted by Con an did not properly support the resolution.
Vote Placed by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
alexfalseBlackVoidTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro never addressed the legality of the hit. He seemed to be arguing that such a hit "should" be legal, rather than that it "is" legal. Since Pro created the debate, he has no excuse for arguing something different (loss of conduct). And by not arguing the point, he loses arguments.