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Jehovah is a just and loving God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/1/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 572 times Debate No: 77197
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Injustice is abundant in today's world and many wrongly blame God. However, the Bible teaches us a heartwarming truth: "Jehovah is a lover of justice" (Psalms 37:28). In this debate we will take a look at how Jehovah has proved these words true. We wil also take a look at the dominant quality Jehovah posseses, love. As we examine beautiful facets of His gem-like quality, we will see why the Bible says, "God is love" (1 John 4:8).

Round 1 is acceptance only.


As you are a Jehovah's Witness I will be using the Bible and referring to the deity presented in it. You believe in a literalist interpretation of the text. You believe it is Jehovah's word and could not be subject to error of the scribes writing it down. For you, there is no bad morality or teachings or anything like that in the Bible. Anything that is close to that is justified because your god is a loving and fair god. Just take all his words to heart and worship him. I will allow you to present first, maybe make some clarifications if I have said something false about what you believe.
Debate Round No. 1
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Debate Round No. 2



I am a Jehovah's Witness. We align our beliefs with the Bible, but recognize not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. We also recognize that although the scribes who did the copying had meticulous methods for checking their copies for errors, these men were imperfect and there are discrepancies in spelling and word order with a few words changed or added in their copies, but nothing of doctrinal significance. There is no other ancient book as well attested as the Bible with its thousands of copies in the original language showing that it has been the same for approximately 1,500 years of copying. And, indeed, we believe God is not immoral (according to man's standards of morality) and that there are no bad teachings in the Bible. On the contrary, “all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial” (2 Timothy 3:16, 17).

"Jehovah is a lover of justice" (Psalms 37:28)

At the age of 17, Joseph had been betrayed by his own brothers, who almost killed him. He was then sold as a slave in a foreign land. There, he refused the advances of his master's wife who then falsely accused him of attempted rape and he found himself confined in a dungeon. What a gross injustice! But Jehovah, who is “a lover of righteousness and justice” (Psalms 33:5), was watching, and He acted to correct the injustices, maneuvering events so that Joseph was eventually released. In the end, He went from a man who had been thrown in a prison hole to a man placed in a position of great responsibility and honor (Genesis 40:15; 41:41-43; Psalm 105:17, 18). He used his exalted position to further God's purpose (Genesis 45:5-8).

This account speaks to our hearts, doesn't it? Who of us hasn't seen injustice or been a victim of it? Yes, indeed, we all want to be treated in a just manner, and this is not surprising. Jehovah created us to reflect his own personality, and justice is one of His greatest qualities (Genesis 1:27).

Now, imagine a man put in prison for something he did not do, an elderly widow cheated out of her life savings, or a helpless baby abandoned by a cold-hearted parent. Likely, when thinking about this you feel disturbed, and that is understandable. We humans have a strong sense of what is right and wrong. When injustice is committed, we are enraged. We want compensation for the victim and justice to be brought to the offender. If this does not happen, we may ask ourselves, “Doesn't God see what is happening? Why doesn't he act?”

In the Bible, servants of Jehovah have asked similar questions. The prophet Habakkuk, for example, prayed to Jehovah, “Why do you make me watch such terrible injustice? Why do you allow violence, lawlessness, crime, and cruelty to spread everywhere?” (Habakkuk 1:3). Jehovah did not reprimand Habakkuk for his question, since He is who imparted in us humans the concept of justice.

Jehovah is not unaware of injustice. He sees what is going on. In Noah's day, for example, “Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of His heart was only bad all the time.” (Genesis 6:5). Our perception of injustice is based on a few incidents we might have heard of or experienced personally. Jehovah, on the other hand, is aware of injustice in a global scale. He sees it all! More than that, He can recognize the inclinations of the heart, the degraded thinking behind unjust acts. And He does more than than merely take note of injustice. He cares about the victims. For example, when His people were oppressively treated by the enemy nations, He distressed “over their groaning because of their oppressors and those who were shoving them around.” (Judges 2:18). Maybe you have noticed the more people see injustice, the more they get used to it. This is not true about Jehovah, however, who has been seeing injustice in its entirety for some 6,000 years. On the contrary, the Bible guarantees us that things like, “a false tongue,” “hands that are shedding innocent blood,” and “a false witness that launches forth lies” are detestable to him. (Proverbs 6:16-19). O how Jehovah hates injustice! Why, He has experienced it personally! For thousands of years Satan has been unjustly taunting Jehovah (Provers 27:11), and He was touched furthermore by the most horrible act of injustice when His Son who “committed no sin” was executed as a criminal (1 Peter 2:22; Isaiah 53:9). Why, then, does God allow injustice?

Jehovah has the right to rule over the Earth and all those dwelling on it (Psalm 24:1; Revelation 4:11). But, a long time ago, Jehovah's sovereignty was challenged. He commanded Adam and Eve not to eat from a certain tree in the garden that was his paradise home. If he disobeyed, God told him “you will positively die” (Genesis 2:17). Satan, however, told Eve “You positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.” (Genesis 3:1-5). Satan here was implying, not only that Jehovah kept important information from Adam and Eve, but that He lied to them. Satan was careful not to question the fact of Jehovah's sovereignty, but he did challenge the righteousness of it, maintaining that He did not exercise His sovereignty in a righteous way and in the best interest of His subjects.

Adam and Eve ate from the fruit, and their disobedience resulted in them receiving the punishment of death. But Satan's lie raised some important questions. Does Jehovah really have the right to rule man, or should man rule himself? Jehovah could have used His almighty power to destroy the rebels immediately, but the thing being questioned was not His power but His rulership. Rather than solving the issue, the immediate destruction of the rebels would only call His rulership into question even further. Only letting time pass could it be determined whether humans could successfully govern themselves. What has history revealed concerning human rule?

Through the millenniums, people have experimented with many types of government. But, like the Bible says, “Man has dominated man to his injury.” (Ecclesiastes 8:9). This is why the prophet Jeremiah said, “I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jeremiah 10:23).

From the beginning, Jehovah knew man ruling himself would result in much suffering. Was it, therefore, unjust of Him to allow the inevitable to happen? No. Let's say you have a child that needs surgery to cure him from a life-threatening disease. You understand the surgery will cause your child some suffering, and this aggrieves you. But you also know the surgery will allow your child to enjoy better health later in life. Similarly, God foretold that His allowance of human rule would bring along with it some pain and suffering. (Genesis 3:16-19). But He also knew that everlasting relief would only be possible if he allowed mankind to see the bad results produced by rebellion. In this way the question could be settled permanently, for all eternity. Then we will enjoy of what God promises in Revelation 21:4.

And He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

"God is love" (1 John 4:8).

Love is what moved Jehovah to begin creating. He wasn't lonely or needed companionship. He is complete and self-sustained, lacking nothing that someone else could provide. Jehovah, being the very personification of love, was naturally moved to share the gift of life with intelligent beings that could appreciate this gift.

The greatest act of love was when He sent His Son to the Earth. How do you think He felt as He saw Jesus deserted by his friends, subjected to an illegal trial, ridiculed, spat on, struck, nailed hands and feet to a wooden pole as people vituperated him, and as he cried out to his Father in agony? How do you think Jehovah felt as His dear Son, with whom He had lived with since the dawn of creation, was not in existence? The pain He suffered is beyond the power of our words to express. After seeing the darkness and violent earthquake that preceded Jesus' death, an astonished Roman soldier said, “Certainly, this was God's Son” (Matthew 27:54). Why did Jehovah subject himself to such feelings? Jehovah reveals something wonderful to us in John 3:16.

God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”


After this examination of the scriptures, there is no doubt that our God, Jehovah, is a just and loving God.



I would firstly like to point out the old trick that even literalists like to pull when presented with moral questioning of their god. "Why would a just and loving God condone slavery (Ephesians 6:5) killing people for nonexistent things like witchcraft (Exodus 22:18) slaughtering children with bears if they insult you (2 Kings 2:23) and allowing your concubine, who doesn't want to be with you, allowing her to be raped and then, since she has been defiled and is in shock, you then kill her, slice up her body into several pieces, and send them each to different regions (Judges 19:22)? Why does god think it's ok to be a psychopath?" Just look at what my opponents excuse is for these things that secular ethics deems reprehensible. He says that the Bible was recorded by humans who made errors and that's why rape is fine if you marry the victim (Deuteronomy 22:28). Well what are errors in the Bible? Things which are now commonly unacceptable. Well if some parts of the
Bible are wrong then what makes it divine? Why say it came from god if god allowed mistakes to be made? Why would god allow his word to be tainted? Even if there is a god there is no reason to believe it is the Biblical god. And if it is the Biblical god, then he either thinks it's ok to rape, murder, mutilate, and be a sociopath or he thinks it's ok to mislead his chosen people and all those who read his book. That's another thing. Why did god make one group of people better than everyone else? Why does god allow them to win battles against their foes under clear dictation that he wants them to win? And why did god pick a group of wandering middle easterners from 5000 years ago? Why not the Native Americans, or the Greeks, or the Chinese, or the Egyptians? Each of these groups had a vastly superior understanding of sciences, while now primitive, at least compared to the Stone Age Hebrews. This god not only picked a sore lot of ancient people, he encourages xenophobia and discrimination on grounds of worship (Deuteronomy 23:1). Jehovah, as you call him, is in no way a kind or benevolent god. He is cruel, manipulative, dishonest, angry, lazy, and incompetent. All of which are not attributes of an all loving deity.
Debate Round No. 3


Why would a just and loving God condone slavery?”

LOVE of neighbor is a key teaching of the Bible, which is why some are puzzled by the mention of slavery in the Bible. When the Bible began to be written, people had already established social structures and economic systems conflicting with godly principles. While Jehovah clearly condemned some practices, He chose to tolerate others like slavery. About the social structure of the ancient nation of Israel, The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says, “It was meant to function as a brotherhood in which, ideally, there were no poor [and there was] no exploitation of widows, waifs, or orphans.” So, Jehovah was not only allowing an already established social and economic structure; His law regulated slavery so that, if practiced, slaves would be treated in a humane manner, with love.

Kidnapping and selling a man was punished with death (Exodus 21:16). If, despite the provisions made to prevent poverty, an Israelite found himself in debt, he could sell himself as a slave. He could also earn a surplus with which he could redeem himself (Leviticus 25:47-52).

Jehovah did not condone oppressive slavery. If a master killed his slave, the slave was to be avenged (Exodus 21:20). If the slave was injured, losing a tooth or an eye, he was set free (Exodus 21:26, 27).

Six years is the longest any Israelite would have to serve as a slave (Exodus 21:2). A Hebrew slave was set free in the seventh year of his service. The Law also demanded that every 50 years all Hebrew slaves nationwide were to be set free, no matter how long the individual had been a slave (Leviticus 25:40, 41).

The master was required to be generous toward the slave when he was released. Deuteronomy 15:13, 14 says: “In case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.”

Later, in the days of Jesus and his apostles, slavery was an established system in the Roman Empire. As Christianity grew, slaves as well as slave owners heard the good news and became Christians. But Jesus and the apostles did not preach good news about a social liberation trying to reform the existing system of Satan (1 John 5:19). Instead, slaves and slave owners were exhorted to love each other as spiritual brothers (Colossians 4:1, 1 Timothy 6:2).

From Bible study we learn that Jehovah detests the mistreatment of humans. And, soon, Jehovah will deliver us from all forms of slavery. Then, we will enjoy true freedom (Isaiah 65:21, 22).

Why would a just and loving God condone killing people?”

Jehovah is the Giver of life. All lives belong to him; he gives life, he takes it. Life is His to do what He wants with it. Fortunately, Jehovah has a morality superior to that of mere humans that is not reduced to His power. So, God can do as He wishes, but His wishes are constrained by His character, and God IS love (1 John 4:8). As imperfect humans, we are not aware of all the facts. What we can be sure of is that God's decisions are never wrong: "So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong." (Job 34:10). Why question this with the many times Jehovah has proved these words to be true?

Why does god think it's ok to be a psychopath?”

Judges 19 is about a certain Levite living in E' who took as his wife a concubine from Beth'le.hem. This concubine committed fornication against her husband and went away from him to the house of her father at Beth'le.hem and stayed there for four months.

What she did is something that is punished with death. But, instead, her husband went after her to talk consolingly to her so she would go back with him, so she had him come into her father's house, and there they stayed for a few days.

On the fifth day, like the previous days, the Father insisted that they stayed to eat, so they did. Doing so it started getting late so, again, the Father wanted them to stay overnight, but this time the man did not accept. He rose and got on his way and came as far as in front of Je'bus, now known as Jerusalem. While they were close by Je'bus, it was getting considerably late, so the attendant said to his master, that they should stay overnight in the city of the Jeb'u.sites. The master replied that they should not turn aside to a city of foreigners who are no part of the sons of Israel. So, they kept on their way and the sun began to set when near Gib'e.ah which belongs to Benjamin.

They sat down in the public square of the city where they saw an old man from E' coming from his work in the field at evening. The old man told them not to stay overnight in the public square. So, he brought them into his house.

They washed their feet and began to eat and drink. Then, good-for-nothing men surrounded the house shoving each other against the door and they kept saying to the old man, the owner of the house, “Bring out the man that came into your house, that we may have intercourse with him.” The owner of the house replied, “No, my brothers, do not do anything wrong, please, since this man has come into my house. Do not commit this disgraceful folly.” The owner of the house even offered his daughter and the concubine of the man so they would not do that disgraceful foolish thing that got whole cities, Sodom and Gomorrah, destroyed. But the men did not want to listen to the owner of the house.

Now, think, would any of this had happened if the man's wife had not committed fornication against her husband and left him? From the moment she did this, she deserved to die. So, the man did not let that the daughter owner of the house suffered for what his concubine had caused. So, the man brought forth his concubine to them outside and they had intercourse with her all night long until morning.

Chapter twenty verse five shows that the concubine died from the rape, her husband didn't kill her. He cut her in twelve pieces and sent her into every territory of Israel so they saw what had been done in the territory of Benjamin, and those who saw this said, “Such a thing as this has never been brought about or been seen from the day that the sons of Israel went up out of the land of Egypt down to this day. Set YOUR hearts upon it, take counsel and speak.” This resulted in a battle against the sons of Benjamin and the sons of Israel who gathered against the city to put to death to the good-for-nothing men to “clear out what is bad from Israel.”

So, as you can see, the man was not a psycopath, nor does Jehovah “think it's ok to be a psychopath.” What happened to this woman is the consequences of her fornication against her husband and leaving him.

He says that the Bible was recorded by humans who made errors and that's why rape is fine if you marry the victim.”

[BEGINNING OF QUOTE] First, the Mosaic Law is hardly about letting a rapist off easy. The consequence for raping a woman engaged to be married was stoning (Deuteronomy 22:25). If the woman was not engaged, the rapist was spared for the sake of the woman"s security. Having lost her virginity, she would have been deemed undesirable for marriage"and in the culture of the day, a woman without a father or husband to provide for her would be subject to a life of abject poverty, destitution, and social ostracism. As such, the rapist was compelled to provide for the rape victim for as long as he lived. Thus, far from barbaric, the law was a cultural means of protection and provision.

Furthermore, there was precedent under the Mosaic Law for the victimized woman not to marry the victimizer if her father determined that she could be provided for in a more suitable manner (Exodus 22:16"17). Thus, the law was not designed to force the rape victim into an unbearable marriage, but to secure her future and that of her children. [END OF QUOTE]


What are errors in the Bible?”

As I explained in the first round, errors in the copies are discrepancies in spelling and word order, with a few words changed or added, nothing of doctrinal significance. So, no, errors in the copies are not things that are now commonly unacceptable.

Even if there is a god there is no reason to believe it is the Biblical god.”

Reasons for considering the Bible are that it itself says it is from God, the creator of mankind, Bible prophecy explains the meaning of world conditions, it enables us to understand the meaning of life, and it shows us how we can have the very things lovers of righteousness desire the most. Evidences of inspiration include the many prophecies reflecting detailed knowledge of the future and its content scientifically sound on matters discovered at a later date. I can talk more about this in the next round.

Why did god make one group of people better than everyone else?”

When “the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of His heart was only bad all the time,” Noah proved himself faultless among his contemporaries and walked with the true God. This is why Jehovah made a covenant with Noah to preserve human and animal life while destroying the wicked world of that day. Eight survived the flood, and all eight worshiped Jehovah. Abraham was a descendent of one of the sons of Noah, Shem, and a worshipper of Jehovah as well. In fact, Jehovah even calls him His friend (James 2:23). This is why Jehovah made a covenant with Abraham and promised him he would be the father of nations. The Israelites are the descendants of the twelve sons of Abraham and was, for a time, God's nation from which Jesus would come. Israel was also more advanced in things like hygiene and freedom of women than surrounding nations.


God is not “cruel, manipulative, dishonest, angry, lazy, and incompetent.” Jehovah is a just and loving God.



Ah, I see. God loves the good kind of slavery. See, I was confused and thought that the forced labor of humans was bad under all circumstances but you are so right. Selling your daughter and preventing her from being free or having any choice in marriage (Exodus 21:7) is completely different from selling conquered people's and preventing them from being free (Leviticus 25:44). And why are the daughters kept forever and not the sons? Why does god think women should be quiet and never rise above a man (1 Timothy 2:11)? Does your mother ever pray without her veil (Corinthians 11:13)? Did a group of children taunt you from a distance so you sent bears to kill them (2 Kings 2:23)? Or should I just kill the men and non virgins (Numbers 31:17)? Last Saturday I picked up sticks and on Sunday I mowed my lawn. On which day was the sabbath for which I should be put to death for my working on it (Numbers 15:32)? "Blessed the one who seizes your children and smashes them against the rock."" (Psalm 137:9) how do you justify that? "Well you see, the children represent the future generations." 1) why be confusing and 2) doesn't god not want future generations to be punished (Ezekiel 18:20)? Or wait, doesn't god punish people for generations (Exodus 20:5)? Why does every Gospel have conflicting accounts of the life of Jesus? Look at the Resurrection. In Mathew it says Mary Magdalene and another Mary visit Jesus' tomb. In Mark it is both Mary's and Salome. In Luke it's the Mary's, Joanna, and "the others." And in John, only Mary Magdalene comes. In Mathew, an angel rolls the stone away and sits on it before their eyes. In the other Gospels, the stone is already gone. In Mark the women were so afraid they told no one. In the subsequent Gospels they told at least the disciples. Also, is The Father greater than Jesus (John 14:28) or are they equal (John 10:30)? Moses is told by Yahweh to judge your neighbors in righteousness (Leviticus 19:15) but Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount not to judge others (Mathew 7:1). Oh, well newer books can override older orders. Well then why have the older laws? And Jesus did not come to abolish or destroy the old laws but to fulfill them (Mathew 5:7). In America we don't still reference the 18th amendment because the 21st specifically repealed it.

Also, I know Jehovah's Witnesses aren't allowed to research their church's history or that of any other religion, for fear they may leave, but I have looked into your religion's history. It appears that there are a few dates that stick out. Firstly, did you know that Jesus took control of the Earth in 1914? Specifically October 24/25. The first link below will give you some information on some certain dates your elders have predicted. Ever heard of rapture anyone?

"So that you may not be mixed with these nations left here among you, or make mention of the names of their gods, or swear by them, or serve them, or bow yourselves down to them, but hold fast to the LORD your God, as you have done to this day. (Joshua 23:7)"
Debate Round No. 4


[BEGINNING OF QUOTE] Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.

Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized. Among these are the following: Jehovah is the only true God. Jesus Christ is not part of a Trinitarian godhead but is the only-begotten Son of God. Redemption from sin is possible only through faith in Christ’s ransom sacrifice. The holy spirit is not a person but is Jehovah’s active force, and its fruitage must be evident in the lives of true worshipers. The human soul is not immortal, as the ancient pagans claimed; it dies, and the hope for future life is in the resurrection. God’s permission of wickedness has been because of the issue of universal sovereignty. God’s Kingdom is the only hope for mankind. Since 1914 we have been living in the last days of the global wicked system of things. Only 144,000 faithful Christians will be kings and priests with Christ in heaven, whereas the rest of obedient mankind will receive eternal life on a paradise earth. [END OF QUOTE]


So, yes, at one time we had an erroneous idea of what would happen in 1914. What we didn't get wrong is that it is an important year in Bible prophecy, the year Jesus became king and the "last days" began:

And we know our own history, we even have two movies just about that: "Jehovah's Witnesses—Faith in Action, Part 1: Out of Darkness" and "Jehovah's Witnesses—Faith in Action, Part 2: Let the Light Shine"

GIDHIR, you can keep arguing about every single little point in the Bible you don't understand, but as I said in the previous round: "God IS love (1 John 4:8). As imperfect humans, we are not aware of all the facts. What we can be sure of is that God's decisions are never wrong: "So listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do evil, from the Almighty to do wrong." (Job 34:10). Why question this with the many times Jehovah has proved these words to be true?"

God is telling you in the Bible he exists and he has revealed his power through things like fulfilled prophecy. Consider this one:

[BEGINNING OF QUOTE] Some 200 years later—on the night of October 5/6, 539 B.C.E.—an army encamped near Babylon. Who was its commander? A Persian king named Cyrus. The stage was thus set for the fulfillment of an amazing prophecy. But would the army of Cyrus invade Babylon without a battle, as foretold?

The Babylonians were holding a festival that night and felt secure behind their massive city walls. Meanwhile, Cyrus cleverly diverted the water of the river that flowed through the city. Soon the water was shallow enough for his men to cross the riverbed and approach the walls of the city. But how would Cyrus’ army get past Babylon’s walls? For some reason, on that night the doors to the city were carelessly left open!

Regarding Babylon, it was foretold: “She will never be inhabited, nor will she be a place to reside in throughout all generations. No Arab will pitch his tent there, and no shepherds will rest their flocks there.” (Isaiah 13:20) This prophecy did more than predict a city’s fall. It showed that Babylon would be desolated permanently. You can see evidence of the fulfillment of these words. The uninhabited site of ancient Babylon—about 50 miles (80 km) south of Baghdad, Iraq—is proof that what Jehovah spoke through Isaiah has been fulfilled: “I will sweep her with the broom of annihilation.”—Isaiah 14:22, 23. [END OF QUOTE]


If you want to learn the truth about your loving Father I recommend you first study how he has revealed himself to us in the Bible (go to the link above where I got the quote about the fulfilled prophecy) and then request a Bible study with Jehovah's Witnesses and learn the truth about our God who IS love (1 John 4:8):

This debate is over.



GIDHIR forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
Congratulations, but you have not swayed me nor do I believe your god Jehovah is real, and even if he were, I wouldn't consider him at all good or kind or forgiving or a positive being. If anything, this deity compels people to abandon life and waste it away trying to please him just for a reward.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
If Jesus runs for reelection, at this rate I don't think he'll make it. I certainly won't vote for him. But what, you may be asking, does any of this authoring the bible and global control have to do with whether Jehovah is good? Well I also have a question. What's so kind and loving about being involved with only a small chunklet of your people for a few centuries and then leaving all of humanity to bicker and fight over what he meant about shellfish, war, and homosexuals? What's so loving about coming down to Earth and then abandoning us with the knowledge we would all be incredibly confused and angry for millennia? I don't care if you're a Jehovah's Witness or a Jew or a Wiccan or a Krishna or an Atheist or a Pastafarian. But don't tell me your friend is good, hand be a book he wrote, and then get angry when I point out all the atrocities within it.

Now this debate is over.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
If there is even one person not in Heaven by there own admission then god is not an all loving and kind being because even a reasonably kind and loving being doesn't have eternal punishments for finite crimes or "sins." If a person was bad enough not to go to heaven then who's to say that in a different environment they would be holy? If they would've been holy in a different setting, then why didn't god put them there? Why did god choose to have people live a life they are destined to be sinful in? But let's ignore all that, ALL THAT. Let's ignore all the kicking out of heaven, the killing of infants, the slaughtering of non-virgins, the forced marriage of rape victims I don't care if it was to protect her from being seen a s unclean back then RAPE IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE. Forget this being being an awful creature and its actions. Why did he write a book, intending it to be confusing and misleading, intending it to be so unclear about its message that thousands of denominations and interpretations exist, and then write nothing else? For a few hundred to a thousand years, this god had Middle Eastern scribes copy his thoughts on Earth and humanity, all his rules and laws for getting into heaven, and methods of praising his arrogant self because this particular omnipotent deity has low self esteem. Then, after the New Testament is published, he seldom appears again. Maybe on a piece of toast or in the clouds every so often, but no more authoring. Then right after World War I starts in 1914, Jesus decides to not only come back, but rule the world. I thought god ruled over everything, but this was more official, so official god decided to tell only a small fraction of the world's population. And Mr. Christ's leadership has been a little shaky, because since 1914 we've had another World War, a global depression, a holocaust, plenty of massacres, famines, floods, racism, a recent rise in global atheism (woot), and about a handful of false raptures.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
You can list all the positive things in the bible. You can show me the times it says love your neighbor or help the poor or feed the hungry or forgive your enemies or to just be a good person. And if you believe in the Bible and in it's god whom you call Jehovah, go ahead and do those things, helping people and all that. But don't tell me he is a loving and caring god. Don't tell me he forgives all, that he loves all, or that he is kind. At no point did you try to explain why your god values the deaths of hundreds of children or the deaths of innocent adults or the destructions of people's families just to prove a point. Did god really have to torture Job, destroy his livelihood, and worst of all kill his family before him just to win a bet with the devil? Why couldn't he be the bigger celestial being? Why did he have to stoop to the Devil's level? And what is Job's reward for trusting a god who killed his wife and children over a petty bar bet? He gets a new family. He doesn't get his old family, no their quite dead. If a being with the power of Resurrection killed your loved ones, whom you knew as individuals, and then replaced them with all knew people whom you don't know, how insulted would you be? What must this being think of humanity, that any family is as good as the next? This god doesn't care about your pain, he doesn't care about the ones you love, and what if he lost faith after all of that? Then he would surely be punished. Now I know from experience that you yourself don't believe in an eternal punishment, but then again you don't think of your god as a raving psychopath. So yes, I will point out that the bible has a heaven field with eternal happiness and splendor that at the very least is countered by an existence of nothingness for all eternity. So this god doesn't love everyone, otherwise we'd all go to heaven and there's no point to being on Earth.
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
Sorry about Round 5, busy day, all that. If you don't mind, I'll just post my Round 5 response here.
Posted by Bible 1 year ago
Had the character limit allowed it, I would have included these verses that clearly show God does not promote xenophobia:

Deuteronomy 10:17 - "For Jehovah your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the God great, mighty, and awe-inspiring, who treats none with partiality and does not accept a bribe."

2 Chronicles 19:7 - "Now let the fear of Jehovah be upon you. Be careful about what you do, for with Jehovah our God there is no injustice, no partiality, no bribe-taking."

Romans 2:11 - "For there is no partiality with God."

Colossians 3:25 - "Certainly the one who does wrong will be repaid for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality."

Acts 10:34, 35 - "At this Peter began to speak, and he said: "Now I truly understand that God is not partial, but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him."

Romans 10:12 - "For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. There is the same Lord over all, who is rich toward all those calling on him. "
Posted by GIDHIR 1 year ago
It is appearing in Round Three for me too. Weird.
Posted by missmedic 1 year ago
The Jehovah's Witness bible contradicts other bibles, so like I said before "It's not rational to believe in something with logically contradictory characteristics, when the allegedly same thing is defined in a contradictory manner by someone else." My true friends and family would never be shunned for changing the way they believe.
Posted by Bible 1 year ago
Did my arguments appear in round 3 or is it just my computer??
Posted by Bible 1 year ago

Or you can actually study the Bible and learn the true characteristics of God. Here is a link that can help:

And I invite you to watch this brief three minute video first:

You can see what happens at a Jehovah's Witness Bible study here:
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited a round. This is bad conduct.