The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
yoosamue
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Jehovahs Witnesesses ARE doomed to Hell for Bible manipulation?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
FollowerofChrist1955
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/20/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,583 times Debate No: 89133
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (144)
Votes (1)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

The adding or taking away from the Bible is strictly FORBIDDEN in ALL forms of reputable Bibles. The Watchtowers New World Translation has willfully violated that decree, this action renders it False Doctrine. Arguments will limit themselves to the (Abbreviation KJV or AV Complete Bible published 1611) or as close to this as is presently possible. No NKJV or NIV, NASB so that odds are more even.
IF NWT used ONLY scripture allowed .... no external text, or commentaries. AND MUST AGREE with rule#1 or do not accept debate please.
The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT) is a modern-language translation of the Bible published by Jehovah's Witnesses, first published in 1950 or as close to as possible.

Rule#1 Only scripture may be used to argue point. IF other than King James version ... Con must also include the exact same scripture text from King James Version . (So evaluators may adequately judge for themselves IF organizational manipulation has occurred).

Rule#2 Must BE Jehovah's Witness and must use scripture to interpret scripture ... no external sources, commentaries, opinions from other books .... scripture ONLY.

Rule#3 As non-believers shall be present, questions MUST have answer which have a high degree of a self explanatory nature-(to assist non-believers to appropriately be able to evaluate data for voting purposes).

Rule#4 Debate person MUST have at least moderate to high level of personal knowledge of Religion in question.

Rule#5 There will be NO explanations or excuses that attempts to persuade or dissuade evaluators from honest review of text manipulations. IE... this word was changed because in the greek, hebrew, latin etc... As previously stated the scriptures will speak for themselves.

rationale ....(ALL Believers will know by the leading of the Holy Spirit what IS true and accurate ... therefore WE (Believers- DO NOT REQUIRE) Jehovah's witness explanations as to the WHY they changed Doctrinal text, and their explanations will only serve as attempts to Violate Rule#5

I allege Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be saved because of a direct violation of Sacred Scripture (Listed below). I further contend that truth can no longer be found by Jehovah's witnesses because of this violation.

I am aware and fully in agreement that God CAN save anyone no matter their personal sin, misguidance or lost state. But to SAVE a Jehovah's Witness ... requires Them to depart from Jehovah's witnesses organization entirely. So the point remains the same ... Jehovah's Witness who remain in Jehovah's witnesses cannot be saved!

Deuteronomy 4:2King James Version
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:40
Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

1st Question:
Christ is God's Son and is inferior to him (Jehovah's Witness)
Christ IS God (Believers)

King James Bible response:
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New world Translation
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

1 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

New world Translation
16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: "He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory."

2nd Question:
Christ died on a stake, not a cross (Jehovahs Witness)
Christ died on a cross
John 19:17
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

New world Translation
John 19:17 Bearing the torture stake for himself, he went out to the so-called Skull Place, which is called Golgotha in Hebrew.

John 19:19
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

New world Translation
John 19:19 Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the torture stake. It was written: "Jesus the Nazarene; the King of the Jews."

John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

New world Translation
John 19:31Since it was the day of Preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the torture stakes on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath day was a great one), the Jews asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken
away.

Matthew 27:32 King James Version
32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

New world Translation
Matthew 27:32
32 As they were going out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon. This man they compelled into service to carry his torture stake.

Matthew 27:42 King James Version
42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

New world Translation
Matthew 27:42 "Others he saved; himself he cannot save! He is King of Israel; let him now come down off the torture stake, and we will believe in him.

3rd Question:
Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person (Jehovah's Witness)
Christ was raised from the dead bodily (Believers)

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

New World Translation
Luke 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have have flesh and bones just as you see that I have."40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and amazement, he said to them: "Do you have something there to eat?" 42 So they handed him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it before their eyes. 44 He then said to them: "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled."45Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46 and he said to them, "This is what is written: that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day,

4th Question:
Wicked will be eternally destroyed (Jehovah's Witness)
Wicked will be eternally punished (Believers)

Daniel 12:1-2King James Version (KJV)
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

New World Translation
12 "During that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. 2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach
and to everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

New World Translation
46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.

If I have misrepresented Jehovah's Witness Beliefs, then please correct them. It is Biblical manipulation at question in this debate. The Bible is plain as to the penalty for changing the word of God. I submit that if you violate the word of God ITSELF by manipulation ... how can truth EVER be found in you?
yoosamue

Con

I think Jehovah Witness are the beast which the bible talks because their main goal is to persuade people to believe what they think but not what is from the bible more to that they usually argue about why should people celebrate Christmas.
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Rule#1 Only scripture may be used to argue point. IF other than King James version ... Con must also include the exact same scripture text from King James Version . (So evaluators may adequately judge for themselves IF organizational manipulation has occurred).

Rule#2 Must BE Jehovah's Witness and must use scripture to interpret scripture ... no external sources, commentaries, opinions from other books .... scripture ONLY.

Rule#3 As non-believers shall be present, questions MUST have answer which have a high degree of a self explanatory nature-(to assist non-believers to appropriately be able to evaluate data for voting purposes).

Rule#4 Debate person MUST have at least moderate to high level of personal knowledge of Religion in question.

Rule#5 There will be NO explanations or excuses that attempts to persuade or dissuade evaluators from honest review of text manipulations. IE... this word was changed because in the greek, hebrew, latin etc... As previously stated the scriptures will speak for themselves.

Deuteronomy 4:2King James Version
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Deuteronomy 4:40
Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

1st Question:
Christ is God's Son and is inferior to him (Jehovah's Witness)
Christ IS God (Believers)

King James Bible response:
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

New world Translation
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

1 Timothy 3:16King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

New world Translation
16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: "He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory."

2nd Question:
Christ died on a stake, not a cross (Jehovahs Witness)
Christ died on a cross
John 19:17
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

New world Translation
John 19:17 Bearing the torture stake for himself, he went out to the so-called Skull Place, which is called Golgotha in Hebrew.

John 19:19
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

New world Translation
John 19:19 Pilate also wrote a title and put it on the torture stake. It was written: "Jesus the Nazarene; the King of the Jews."

John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

New world Translation
John 19:31Since it was the day of Preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the torture stakes on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath day was a great one), the Jews asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken
away.

Matthew 27:32 King James Version
32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

New world Translation
Matthew 27:32
32 As they were going out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon. This man they compelled into service to carry his torture stake.

Matthew 27:42 King James Version
42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

New world Translation
Matthew 27:42 "Others he saved; himself he cannot save! He is King of Israel; let him now come down off the torture stake, and we will believe in him.

3rd Question:
Christ was raised from the dead as an immortal spirit person (Jehovah's Witness)
Christ was raised from the dead bodily (Believers)

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

New World Translation
Luke 24:39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have have flesh and bones just as you see that I have."40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 But while they were still not believing for sheer joy and amazement, he said to them: "Do you have something there to eat?" 42 So they handed him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it before their eyes. 44 He then said to them: "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was yet with you, that all the things written about me in the Law of Moses and in the Prophets and Psalms must be fulfilled."45Then he opened up their minds fully to grasp the meaning of the Scriptures, 46 and he said to them, "This is what is written: that the Christ would suffer and rise from among the dead on the third day,

4th Question:
Wicked will be eternally destroyed (Jehovah's Witness)
Wicked will be eternally punished (Believers)

Daniel 12:1-2King James Version (KJV)
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

New World Translation
12 "During that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book. 2 And many of those asleep in the dust of the earth will wake up, some to everlasting life and others to reproach
and to everlasting contempt.

Matthew 25:46King James Version (KJV)
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

New World Translation
46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.
yoosamue

Con

yoosamue forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Manipulations of sacred text undeniable and irrefutable. New World Testament cannot be viewed as a reliable bible.
yoosamue

Con

yoosamue forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
144 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
AnimalLover13 ;
I thought you might BE a Jehovah's Witness, who do NOT BELIEVE hell exists, nor the trinity! I have never studied Mormon. So I am in no position to respond, what you say IS consistent with scriptures ... so I've no response.

I do suggest that IF one WAS to review the entirety of the Biblical Text ... there is NO mention of ANY denomination .... this naturally begs the question ... then WHERE and HOW did denominations arrive?

I've fully investigated the Jehovah's Witnesses and KNOW that they were hatched by a Man who had certain PROBLEMS believing some of the scriptures statements!

Here's the thing God is God and He doesn't CARE WHAT we object to ... as His follower I am to Die to myself in totality, that very much implies that I am to hold NO opinion but that of the Holy scriptures. I am to stand on ITS word alone and no other, His word must be mine, hang what others accept or not!

So you see, I have no opinion regarding denominations, as God has NOT spoken of any! I am a Believer in Christ Jesus who died on the cross for the remission of my sin, resurrected bodily on the third day, and sits at the right hand of the Father bidding me to go and proclaim the gospel to the world till He returns. This IS what I am doing both NOW and for the foreseeable future, though When I look around me I see Revelation approaching, rapidly!
Posted by AnimalLover13 1 year ago
AnimalLover13
AND Jesus is our Savior, not our judge.
Posted by AnimalLover13 1 year ago
AnimalLover13
OMG I AM A MORMON! I DON'T BELIEVE THAT JESUS AND HEAVENLY FATHER AND THE HOLY GHOST ARE ONE PERSON! I BELIEVE THEY ARE 3 SEPARATE BEINGS! www.Mormon.org if you want to know more.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
AnimalLover;
John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,

here is the same scripture in your made up bible!
22 For the Father judges no
one at all, but he has entrusted
all the judging to the Son,

If you people can't even follow your own bible, your OBVIOUSLY NOT saved! you follow Satan.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
AnimalLover;
Your not saved, that's obvious by your statements.
Jehovah's Witnesses unfortunately ARE going to hell, and CANNOT BE SAVED as long as they REMAIN in the Cult Watchtower.
Posted by AnimalLover13 1 year ago
AnimalLover13
For goodness' sake no one is going to hell. You will only go there if you know god is real but deny him, you WANT to go to hell, etc. Very few people are going to hell. Heavenly Father will be the judge of that!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
God has been proven to be Real and Evolution a Lie in Debate" The Proof that God exists IS Mans unique existence."
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
For anyone who is seeking to find God, from a n atheist point of view ..... Go here:
http://www.everystudent.com...

How an Atheist Found God
A personal account from an atheist who was convinced no god exists, and what facts led to God.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
shekinahlouis;
My reference to you being LIKE the Jehovah's Witnesses was inaccurate, and not appropriate. I apologize to you ... you just succeeded in frustrating the humanist side of myself, that was MY Fault. What I do mean is that the Bible IS the only source to find God. IF you needed further references the bible would lead you to them itself, not pastors, priest or any other. There are some external text that scripture mentions in scripture, by way of discussion, but they are not ever to be perceived as canon!

God names NO denomination, neither should you? To name a denomination is to admit a separation from the truths of the gospel at some point. It is your responsibility to determine WHERE the denomination has deviated from the scripture ... and clear the matter up between YOU and God.

There are many believers who are in a denomination that is clearly within the correct path to God, and there IS only one path.... what mean in that statement is that they are true Believers in Jesus Christ and are SAVED because they ARE. The difference lies only in the extent of their spiritual growth, which becomes hindered, because of their unwillingness to deny themselves totally, adopting Gods word as their all, despite what THEY THEMSELVES may wish to believe!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
shekinahlouis
Luke 6:39 New International Version
He also told them this parable: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?

I sincerely hope you will complete the journey you have never completed and finish dying off to your self ... if not?

Matthew 15:14
Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit."
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
FollowerofChrist1955yoosamueTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro.