The Instigator
Longline
Pro (for)
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The Contender
logicinlife
Con (against)
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0 Points

Jehovah's witnesses do not claim they will be the only once safe during Armageddon.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/8/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 514 times Debate No: 87889
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Longline

Pro

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim only they will be safe during Armageddon. But people who hates them keep telling false lies about them.
logicinlife

Con

The Jehovah's Witness Cult founded in the 1870's, roughly 1500 years after the establishment of the Christian church, is run by The Watchtower Society.

The Watchtower Society is the source and current "channel from God" for all of the Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs. The Watchtower teaches that it is the "good and faithful servant of Jehovah". "The governing body is seen as the channel from God on earth, authorised to direct all activities of Jehovah's Witnesses." (http://news.bbc.co.uk...) While Jehovah's Witnesses make the claim that they get all of their teaching from the bible (as the Watchtower tells them to say), the Watchtower is the cause for their unorthodox teachings.

It is important to know the Watchtower's role in Jehovah's Witnesses sayings and teaching because the Jehovah's Witnesses are products of the Watchtower society. Therefore if the Watchtower makes a claim it is universally accepted by all Jehovah's Witnesses despite some changes to major doctrines over the years.

So here are quotes from The Watchtower's Publications, which prove that Jehovah's Witnesses do claim they will be the only ones safe during Armageddon.

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

"But Jehovah's servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things." Watchtower 2007 Dec 15 p.14

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22

"Only Christian witnesses of Jehovah who successfully pass this test will survive and come forth like fire-refined gold for God's use in his precious new order." Watchtower 1985 Mar 1 p.14

"And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry."" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.21

"Why should not blood run deep and far with over two billion [the world population in 1955] dead?.... With the members of this generation that will not pass away before Armageddon breaks out numbering now two billion five hundred million and with only the remnant and a larger group of "other sheep" inside the Greater Noah's "ark" surviving, the death toll of the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" will be appallingly all-surpassing, too many for the Armageddon survivors to bury. Come on, birds and beasts! Have your fill then from the human corpses in retribution for the wanton slaughter of animal and birdlife of which the human race has been guilty!" You May Survive Armageddon Into God's New World 1955 pp.340-342




There are plenty more publications by the Jehovah's Witness organization that prove contrary to my contenders claims.

I would like to note that anything here by the Watchtower, or any Jehovah's Witness, claiming to be an accurate representation of the bible or Christianity is simply not. The Christian church established creeds from 200-400 C.E. which originated for the purpose of fighting heresies including the Arian controversy and Gnosticism, which Russell (the founder of the Watchtower movement as JW's know it) adopted and took as his own.

https://christisthecure.wordpress.com...



Debate Round No. 1
Longline

Pro

first of all, i do not know why you are arguing all these other nonsense that has nothing do with the topic. but however i will try and stay on topic.

I 'm not asking you to prove how we are a cult, or how we lie, or brain watch the world, and planing on controlling the human rise.

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer,"have any Scriptural hope of surviving"the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.""Watchtower"1989 Sep 1 p.19"

so you said only Jehovah's witnesses, then you said, anointed remnant and then finally you said. Great crowd.

I don't think you are talking only about us. So lets move on, this one is busted.

"But Jehovah's servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things."Watchtower"2007 Dec 15 p.14"

so once again you said Jehovah's servants. With an "S" we are not the only one praying to Jehovah, neither are we his only servant. So busted lets keep going.

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy."Watchtower"1993 Sep 15 p.22"

this has noting to do with the end of days. It is simply saying if a follower of Jehovah turn away from him, he or she has no other God like Jehovah to turn to. Hence this does not have to be a Jehovah's witnesses. So busted lets keep on going.

Dame i must say, if you are not copying and pasting these thing then, you sure have some really old watchtower collections. I have been a witness since i was 13 years old, and i tell you, i try to go back as far as i can. Anyways moving on...
the 1985 watchtower i can't seem to find it in my source, so sorry i will find but i will not say much about it right now so...

WATCHTOWER 1985 ISSUES STILL STAND.

"Why should not blood run deep and far with"over two billion"[the world population in 1955] dead?.... With the members of this generation that will not pass away before Armageddon breaks out numbering now two billion five hundred million and withonly the remnant"and a larger group of "other sheep" inside the Greater Noah's "ark""surviving, the death toll of the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" will be appallingly all-surpassing, too many for the Armageddon survivors to bury. Come on, birds and beasts! Have your fill then from the human corpses in retribution for the wanton slaughter of animal and birdlife of which the human race has been guilty!""You May Survive Armageddon Into God's New World"1955 pp.340-342

come on now, where in this does it say, only Jehovah's witness will be save? Point it out specifically. Lets not leave people scratching their head now.
logicinlife

Con

Welcome back.

Pro is mistaken as he says, "you said...you said...you said" in reference to my citation of his organizations "heart". These are quotes pulled from the Watchtower Society, which determines all doctrines of the Jehovah's Wintesses. Pro has failed to recognize the citation behind the quotation marks.

He also thinks he has "busted" his own organizations belief when the quotation CLEARLY states that "Only Jehovah's witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd"" Despite Pro's error in reading the text it is saying that the Jehovah's wintesses are those of the anointed remnant an the great crowd and anyone can properly determine this by reading the quotation correctly. Thus, it is not busted and it remains to disprove Pro's posiiton since this quote comes from the source of Jehovah's Witness' doctrines and teachings.

Here it is again, "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer,"have any Scriptural hope of surviving"the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.""Watchtower"1989 Sep 1 p.19"

Ironically pro goes on futher to say that hes "busting" what I am saying, while missing that he's discreting the Jehovah's Witnesses good and faithful servant. Diversion and circular reasoning is recieved as a Jehovah's Witness and is displayed here.

Publication records from academic databases have issues from the Watchtower.


Pro's most recent defense is from 1955, I know its confusing that the JW change so much in their teachings, but notice that my teaching hails from 1989, which clearly makes the claim that only Jehovah's Witnesses have "any hope of surciging the impending end of this doomed system."

I extend my arguments as Pro also failed to refute all of them.

LIL

Debate Round No. 2
Longline

Pro

OK i guess i should have been much more details.

"He also thinks he has "busted" his own organizations belief when the quotation CLEARLY states that "Only Jehovah's witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd"""

when i say busted i meant to say, this statement you are using does not prove your stand. I am not saying it is not coming from us. you are simply using it in the wrong way.

so lets go into more details. man i hate this. anyways.
the Anointed Remnant. so who are they? they are the 144,000 faithful slaves that will rule side by Jesus himself in heaven for 1000 years. hence not all of Jehovah's Witness are the Anointed Remnant. some of them are chosen long before my time.

The Great crowd. who are the great crowd? The great crowd are everyone who never accept Jehovah's, as well as people who did. everyone will be resurrected. Yes even bad people. however they will each have a chance to change and if not, then they will be erase from existence forever this is the second death.
"Isaiah 26:10
10 Even if the wicked is shown favor,
He will not learn righteousness.
Even in the land of uprightness he will act wickedly,
And he will not see the majesty of Jehovah."
By the end of Judgment Day, surviving humans will have "come to life" fully as perfect humans. (Revelation 20:5)
But during the 1000 year, people will still not believe in God, can you believe this? Revelation 20:5
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)

So whenever you talk about Jehovah's witnesses, the Anointed remnant, and the Great crowd, you not just talking about Jehovah's people.

"Here it is again, "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer,"have any Scriptural hope of surviving"the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.""Watchtower"1989 Sep 1 p.19""

this doomed system dominated by Satan the devil, this is not the Armageddon. this is the world which you and i currently live in. And once again this statement is correct. Only Jehovah's witnesses and the Anointed Remnant and the Great crow will survive this system.

the Armageddon is not a war between men and demons, it is a war between spirituals being, no human will be involve in it, however we will all be accountable for our action bad or good.
logicinlife

Con

While I could simply extend my arguments I wish to point out something here.

Despite Pro's failure to correctly read Watchtower publications, he doesn't provide any evidence supporting his claims that the 144,000 are firstly subject to JW teachings as correct biblical exhortation argues against this making it subject to an entirely separate debate.

Pro does the same with the great crowd here. In addition he notes, "They will each have a chance to change and if not, then they will be erase from existence forever" so if they don't become Jehovah's Witnesses, as per the exclusivity of JW teachings, they will be exterminated. So are these people safe? They live if they become JW, but perish if not. Sounds like only JW are safe.

The end of the doomed system dominated by Satan is not the end of the world? This is a wild claim as Revelations is the purge of this system and Armageddon.

Pro's last statement, "the Armageddon is not a war between men and demons, it is a war between spirituals being, no human will be involve in it, however we will all be accountable for our action bad or good" contradicts the teachings of the Watchtower publication, "Here it is again, "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer,"have any Scriptural hope of surviving"the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.""Watchtower"1989 Sep 1 p.19""

Notice that he says this is NOT Armageddon, but we're told that JW will survive the "impending END of this doomed system". If Armageddon is the battle of the spiritual realms and the end of Satan's rule, how is the watchtower publication talking about something else?

It appears that this Jehovah's Witness is confused on his organizations teachings.

Vote con.

LIL

Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
sight...
Posted by logicinlife 1 year ago
logicinlife
Let the viewers note Pro's personal attacks and consider them when voting post debate period.
Posted by Longline 1 year ago
Longline
Boy, you have a very twisted mind. How hard is it to understand what i said? do i have to make it like a 5 years old book?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
I am truly sorry, but Con IS correct in that the Jehovah's Witnesses, IS a cult. I understand, that to be excommunicated is a terrible loss, and one that you may not be inclined to do at the present time .... but I am prayerful that all those Jehovah's witnesses who read these comments, will find their way Home. God Loves you very deeply and desires to save you all. It is with this in mind and only with this in mind do I ask the following:

Revlation 1:8 "I am the AlE7;pha and the O"meE7;ga,"*+ says Jehovah* God, "the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty."+

Question: who was speaking here? Jehovah

Revelation 21: 6 And he said to me: "They have come to pass! I am the AlE7;pha and the O"meE7;ga,* the beginning and the end.+ To anyone thirsting I will give from the spring* of the water of life free.*+ 7 Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

Question: who is the beginning and the end? Jehovah

Revelation 22:12 ""Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work.+ 13 I am the AlE7;pha and the O"meE7;ga,*+ the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

Question: who was speaking here? Is it Jehovah or Jesus?

Revelation 1:When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First+ and the Last,+ 18 and the living one,+ and I became dead,+ but look! I am living forever and ever,+ and I have the keys of death and of the Grave.

Question: WHEN did Jehovah die?

I will be praying for you!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
As I understand it The JW's have a problem with acknowledging that Jesus is God the son! Not to be confused with God the Father or the Holy Spirit! They must come to the understanding that Christ IS their savior and without Him, they shall never see Heaven. Sad really, very sad.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
To hate anyone is contrary to scriptures, we hate the sin, not the sinner as we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Correct me if I'm mistaken but JW deny the atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, is that correct? I mean they do not believe that Christs death on the cross paid for their sin?
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