The Instigator
Dale.G
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
DeusMortisEst
Con (against)
Winning
60 Points

Jesus Christ is God

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 12 votes the winner is...
DeusMortisEst
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/8/2013 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,616 times Debate No: 28992
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (12)

 

Dale.G

Pro

I Believe and i have faith that the True God is the Lord Jesus Christ :)
DeusMortisEst

Con

There is no evidence that, if the historicity of Jesus is proven, he was anything more than a human being. Biblical references to Jesus and his apparent supernatural abilities and apparent divine lineage can't prove anything more than any legend that happens to feature an historical figure.

I am accepting, for the sake of the argument, that Jesus was an historical figure, but am proposing that he was not an incarnate deity, the son of a deity, or even in communication with a deity, but rather was a mortal human being.

However, even the historicity of Jesus is in question, as no remains have ever been found and very few (if any) contemporary sources outside of the Bible mention his existence. Of course, Christ's historicity is irrelevant to his divinity (although proven historicity would be a step towards proven divinity). After all, the fact that we have proof that Tutankhamun existed doesn't prove that he (or any other Pharaoh) was an incarnate deity.

In order to justify accepting the historicity of Jesus but not his divinity or any kind of divine attributes associated with him I would refer to the theory put forth by the 13th Century Icelandic historian/politician Snorri Sturluson, who suggested that mythological gods started off as historical figures who developed a cult following after death that evolved into deification. Obviously, in this case, as belief in God occurred before Jesus existed, that theory would have to be extended to include the possibility that Jesus, after his death, because his teachings were so closely related to belief in God, became synonymous with God. This would be further suggested by the fact that the radical changes to the religion that would eventually become Christianity in it's various forms occurred because of Christ and these changes in many ways setting him up as the deity of a new religion (after all, Christians use Christ's name more often than Yahweh's).
Debate Round No. 1
Dale.G

Pro

I am here to prove Jesus Christ is God,'

My proof and Evidence of Jesus Christ being God is this the BIBLE,
The Bible has being spoken throughout History,
If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus and God are one (John 10:30, John 1:1, 3, 10, 14),

John 10:30
King James Version (KJV)
30 I and my Father are one.

John 1:1
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
/ Me quote Jesus Christ is one with God i have more proof Jesus Christ is God number 1 is Father God come in the form of Men the BIBLE say's in 1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
/ me quote the Apostle Paul said in Philippians 2:6-11
King James Version (KJV)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
/ Me quote God had to come in the form of Men and the person God come through was the Lord Jesus Christ here is proof that God came through in the form of Men and that Men is the Lord Jesus Christ Jesus Christ said in John 14:6-10
King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
/ Me quote now Father God spoke through the Lord Jesus Christ that proves even more that Jesus Christ is God

. If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus did redeemed us (Titus 2:13-14), for we know that God is our redeemer (Isaiah 63:16).

Titus 2:13-14
King James Version (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Isaiah 63:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O Lord, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

‎. If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus is called the first and the last (Revelation 1:17), for we know that God is the first and the last. (Isaiah 41:4).
Isaiah 48:12 Revelation 22:13 Isaiah 44:6 Revelation 1:8

Revelation 1:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

Isaiah 41:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 48:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isaiah 48:12
King James Version (KJV)
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Revelation 22:13
King James Version (KJV)
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 1:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

/ me quote well the Evidence is there Jesus being God Jesus Christ is my God because Jesus said Revelation 1:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

/ me quote the bible say's in Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

/ Me Quote now who was the son found in Isaiah 9:6 / Me Quote the answer is the Lord Jesus Christ Jesus was Born of the Virgin Mary the bible say's in Matthew 1:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

/ Me Quote wow one of the names for Jesus is Emmanuel God with us that is proof Jesus Christ is God

the bible say's in Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

/ Me quote so the son who is the Lord Jesus Christ is the mighty God Hallelujah so the son who is the Lord Jesus Christ is the Prince of Peace Hallelujah so the son who is the Lord Jesus Christ is the everlasting father Hallelujah here is more proof Jesus Christ is God

God made everything through the Lord Jesus Christ the Apostle Paul said in Ephesians 3:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
/ Me Quote u can go blue in your face the Lord Jesus Christ is God here is more proof the Lord Jesus Christ is God Number 2. God is Eternal the bible say's in Titus 1:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
/ Me Quote the BIBLE say's in Deuteronomy 33:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
/ Me Quote so we can see Jehovah God is Eternal right know let's see Jesus Christ is Eternal as well the Apostle Paul said in Romans 6:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
so we can see that Eternal Life comes through the Lord Jesus Christ :)
The BIBLE say's in John 20:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
/ me quote who was Thomas talking to in John 20:28 i will let u have a go at trying to answer that question and if u do not answer that question then i will answer that question for u
DeusMortisEst

Con

Thomas was APPARENTLY talking to Jesus.

Now, what evidence do you have that the Bible is a 100% accurate source of historical information?
Debate Round No. 2
Dale.G

Pro

Wow u said Thomas was APPARENTLY talking to Jesus./ Me quote well done then that means Jesus Christ is my God The BIBLE say's in John 20:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

/ Me quote so Thomas witnessed seeing the Lord Jesus Christ and Thomas knows Jesus is his God and u to said Thomas was APPARENTLY talking to Jesus

What evidence do i have that the Bible is a 100% accurate source of historical information? well there has being War's And famines and Earthquakes anyone will believe that there has being War's and Famines and Earthquakes that has Happen
If someone believes that their has being war's and famines and earthquakes that has happen, Then they will believe what the Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:6-7
King James Version (KJV)
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
/ Me Quote now that proof's the BIBLE to be 100 percent Accurate and Correct :) because their has being War's and the has being Earthquakes. and their has being famines, and there still are earthquakes happen now,' and their still are rumors of War and Famines and earth Quakes happening as we speak, look at the war's over the years :) now here is more proof and Evidence that the BIBLE is 100 percent Accurate and Correct, The walls of Jericho are real correct well the bible mentions the walls of Jericho fell the bible say's in Hebrews 11:30
King James Version (KJV)
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
/ Me quote the BIBLE is 100 percent Accurate and Correct :) so i can say that History has spoken about the Lord Jesus Christ, even the New's talks about the Lord Jesus Christ,' the fact that i say the wonderful name of the Lord Jesus Christ is real, proves Jesus Christ is real :) History has a lot to say about the Lord Jesus Christ,' then tell me this why Are Judge in the courtroom getting people to swear on the BIBLE,' to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth so help Me God :) the courtroom has being through out History. thus the BIBLE again has being proven to be 100 percent Accurate and Correct,' the fact that Judges tell eye witness to swear to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the Truth so help me God. that proves God who is the Lord Jesus Christ the BIBLE to be 100 percent Accurate and Correct, Another thing to is would a Judge accept a dead persons Testimony i will let u answer that question i said i will say it Again,' would a Judge accept a dead persons Testimony. now let's get back to Jesus Christ being God If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus is called Messiah (John 4:25-26), for we know that only God is Messiah (Isaiah 9:6).

John 4:25-26
King James Version (KJV)
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

/ me quote i believe Jesus Christ is my God

If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus is from everlasting(Micah 5:2), for we know that God is from everlasting(Psalms 93:1-2)

Micah 5:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Psalm 93:1-2
King James Version (KJV)
93 The Lord reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the Lord is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.

‎. If Jesus is not God, then why God glorified Jesus (John 5:23, Hebrews 1:8), for we know that Only God is glorified (Isaiah 42:8)

John 5:23
King James Version (KJV)
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Hebrews 1:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Isaiah 42:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus is 'I am'(John 8:58), for we know that only God is 'I am'(Exodus 3:14).

John 8:58
King James Version (KJV)
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus 3:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

If Jesus is not God, then why Jesus heals all diseases (Matthew 8:16), for we know that God heals all diseases (Psalms 103:2).

Matthew 8:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:

Psalm 103:2
King James Version (KJV)
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

/ me quote Jesus Christ is God because Jesus Christ can give u Eternal Life Jesus Christ said in John 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

/ me quote who is the head of Jesus the answer is Jehovah God the Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:3
King James Version (KJV)
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
/ Me Quote wow the head of Christ is God Hallelujah Jesus Christ is God :)
DeusMortisEst

Con

The fact that phenomena such as wars, earthquakes and famines are recorded in the bible is meaningless.
If those are the criteria on which a book is judged to be true then there is no such thing as a work of fiction.

You're also failing to take into account that the bible isn't just one book, and most of the books weren't written for the purposes of historical record. Even if it contains records of historically verifiable events or figures, that doesn't then render every single book of the bible to be historical.

As it stands you have not yet demonstrated why I should take your bible quotes into account as valid evidence, so your continuing to post them is only making your case weaker. And you still haven't addressed any of the points I made in my first argument.
Debate Round No. 3
Dale.G

Pro

If u think that Earth Quakes and War's and Famine are meaningless then u do not believe there has being Earthquakes And war's and Famines that has happen when their is proof that War's and Famines and Earthquakes that has happen Just look at world war one and world war 2 there where over Over 60 million people were killed, in world war 2 don't Believe me here is a link for proof http://en.wikipedia.org...
How do u know that the BIBLE is not historical
Yes i have demonstrated that the BIBLE is accurate and Correct and i have addressed your questions

The Historical Accuracy of the Bible
Jericho:
Joshua 6, tells how Israel conquered the walled city of Jericho. For six day they marched once around the city. On the seventh day they went around it seven times. The priests blew their trumpets, the people shouted, and when they did, "The wall fell down flat" (Joshua 6:20). The people then rushed strait way into the city and burned it. They took none of it to themselves. They saved Rahab who lived in a house upon the wall and who had helped them previously.

Starting in 1929, Dr. John Garstang, excavated the ruins of ancient Jericho. His discoveries corresponded remarkably with the Biblical account. Jericho, he found, had a double wall, with houses built across the two walls. This explains how Rahab's house could have been built upon a wall. He learned that the wall was destroyed by some kind of violent convulsion such as that described in the Bible, and that when the wall feel that it fell outward, down the hillside, or as the Bible says, it fell down flat. Had the wall been destroyed by the battering rams of an enemy army, the walls would have fallen inward instead of outward. Furthermore, the city had been burned. Once again, the spade of archaeology has established the accuracy of the Bible.

Sergius Paulus, The Proconsul:
In Acts 13:7, mention is made of Sergius Paulus, the proconsul of Cyprus. For a long time, skeptics contended that Luke should have called him propraetor instead of proconsul since this was the usual title. However, coins discovered on Cyprus, have positively established that the governors of Cyprus were proconsuls. One such coin found at Soli on Cyprus bears the inscription, "Paulus the Proconsul", very possibly referring to the very man mentioned in Acts.
/ Me quote u did not answer my question,?
when i had asked u this would a Judge accept a dead persons Testimony.
U avoided my question,? because deep down u know i am getting somewhere with what i have being saying. yes a Judge Can accept a dead persons Testimony,' if someone who witnessed someone robbing a bank, And the police get's the person who witnessed the bank Robber,' Robbing the bank and that eye witness dies and cannot Testify's in court. then what the Witness said and rote down on a police report will get presented to the Judge in court,' As Proof and Evidence :) and the Judge has to accept the eye witness statement. Now the eye witness for Jesus Christ,' There are a lot of eye witness who seen the Lord Jesus Christ, Just image all the eye witness who had seen the Lord Jesus Christ,' their Testimonies would be accepted by me, Well i will name a few eye witness who seen and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the Apostle Paul, that is about 5 eye witness , Now Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the Apostle Paul, will be up in Heaven now, So if someone who works as a Judge who Judges people in a courtroom,' open's the BIBLE up and sees and read's the Holy BIBLE. would the Judge behold and see and read the Eye Witness like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and the Apostle Paul, and many more, would the Judge accept the eye Witness accounts even through Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John, and the Apostle Paul, are up in Heaven,? and the answer will be yes the Judge would see and read where,' Matthew, records what Jesus Christ said in the Gospel of Matthew, the Judge would read what Mark records what Jesus Christ said in the Gospel of Mark, the Judge would read what Luke records of Jesus Christ said in the Gospel of Luke, the Judge will see and read what was records what John recorded what Jesus Christ said in the Gospel of John, the Judge will read and see what the Apostle Paul records in 1 Corinthians.
Now if a Atheist comes up to the Judge,' and say's there is no God,? and let's say if a Christian defends, God who is the Lord Jesus Christ by saying to the Judge God who is the Lord Jesus Christ is real, and the Atheist asks for Proof and Evidence and the Christian say's look Judge here are eye witness accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the BIBLE is 100 percent accurate and correct,' then the Atheist says prove it the Christian will tell the Judge here is my Proof the bible, Have a look Judge of what was recorded in the Gospel of Matthew, and what was recorded in the Gospel of Luke, and What was recorded in the Gospel of Mark, and what was recorded in the Gospel of John, then if the Atheist say's well Where are any eye witness and the Atheist asks for proof and Evidence for the eye witness accounts of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ. now i will give the people names of who seen and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, even the people Who Went against the Lord Jesus Christ, now the Judge would accept 2 or more eye witness accounts but looking at the 5 witness accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the Apostle Paul, a Judge will accept the eye witness Accounts giving the fact that the eye witness are up in Heaven the Judge will accept all 5 eye witness accounts so there u have it here is more information for proof that the bible is 100 percent accurate and correct Grapes In Egypt:
In Genesis 40 we are told how Joseph interpreted the dream of Pharaoh's butler. In this dream grapes are mentioned. But the ancient historian, Herodotus, states that the Egyptians grew no grapes and drank no wine, and many therefore questioned the accuracy of the biblical account. However, paintings discovered on the ancient Egyptian tombs, show the dressing, pruning, and cultivating of the vines, and also the process of extracting the juice of grapes, as well as scenes of drunkenness. There can be little doubt then that Herodotus was wrong and the Bible right.
Now i would like to thank u Paddy for offering to debate me i am sorry i did not say thank u in the first comments of this Debate but i would like to say thank u Paddy for debating me :)
here is why Jesus Christ is God Jesus forgave sin when he was here on earth Jesus Christ said in Mark 2:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
/ Me Quote only God can forgive sins :) the bible say's in Mark 11:25
King James Version (KJV)
25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
/ Me Quote now Jesus Christ is God Hallelujah Praise God
DeusMortisEst

Con

I didn't say I didn't believe that earthquakes, wars, famines etc. are real.
I didn't say I didn't believe that locations or people mentioned in the bible were historical.
I said that the mere fact that the bible includes real occurrences, or contains historical people/places did not prove that the bible is 100% accurate.
For example: A movie was recently released called 'Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter'. The main character was Abraham Lincoln, the former president of the United States of America. Now, we can both agree that he is an historical figure. But by your logic, we should also believe that he spent much of his life killing vampires.
Now, as awesome as that would have been, it isn't true.

You haven't once addressed any point I made in my initial argument in any relevant or meaningful way. All you've done is copy and paste decontextualized bible quote after decontextualized bible quote and tell me why you think it is true rather than present me with evidence to demonstrate its truth.

There are demonstrable inaccuracies and errors in the bible which call into question its validity as a standalone piece of evidence.
To go with an example relevant to the debate topic, there are several different accounts of the life and works of Jesus written by several different apostles.
One specific occurrence of inaccuracy concerning Jesus is the colour of the robe he wore at his trial. According to Matthew it was scarlet (Matthew 27:28), and according to John it was purple (John 19:2).
In fact, speaking of John, John contradicts HIMSELF concerning Jesus. According to John 18:31 it was not lawful for Christ to be put to death, and according to John 19:7 it was lawful.
In fact, John seems to have made a habit of contradicting himself concerning Jesus. According to John 8:18, Christ's witness of himself was true, and according to John 5:31 it wasn't.
There are several other examples of John contradicting himself concerning Jesus.
There are too many inconsistencies in accounts of Jesus's life to assume that Jesus was definitely real and that everything ever written about him was true.

So Dale, we have one more round. I suggest you use part of your next post to sum up your argument, as it will make it easier for voters to assess whose argument is the stronger...
Debate Round No. 4
Dale.G

Pro

Paddy u got it wrong about what the Apostle John said u cannot understand the bible until u be born again, Paddy why are u going way off topic. don't u know going off topic u will lose points :) Paddy i forgive u for going off topic OK,' i will be happy to answer your question regarding what the Apostle John had said. Paddy the Apostle John said in John 18:31
31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death: / Me Quote Paddy the Apostle John was only recording and saying what Pilate and the Jews said about Jesus, the Jews could not kill Jesus,' the Jews knew they could not kill Jesus them selves that is why it was not lawful to do the killing, :) Paddy did u also notice that it was not lawful for the Jews them selves to put Jesus to death,? did the Jews had Jesus Christ beaten Jesus Christ died on the Cross. now the Apostle John said in John 19:7
7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
/ me quote yes the Jews have a Law the Jews tried to have Jesus killed many times,' the Apostle John said in John 10:31
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
/ me quote now why did the Jews wanted to stone Jesus Paddy,' / Me Quote the Apostle John recorded that the Jews had a law it was when Jesus was Judged by Pilate but Pilate could not find any fault in Jesus
/ me quote here is where the Apostle John never contradicts HIMSELF Jesus Christ was perfect before the Jews who where against Jesus. Pilate who was trusted even found no fault in Jesus, but the Jews who wanted Jesus Christ dead they falsely accused Jesus,' by lying Jesus Christ is the son of God.' the Jews who went against Jesus Christ did not believe Jesus the Jews who went against Jesus Christ they rejected Jesus so if someone rejects Jesus Christ. offcouse they will try to lie about Jesus,' it is called non believers Paddy u may not of head this said,' Paddy it is alright for a eye witness to witness someone lying right the Jews who where against Jesus could not find any fault in Jesus no matter what,'Jesus Christ is perfect so Paddy i cannot be a error there,' why well the Jews who went against Jesus where found out to be liars,' Paddy here is proof that the Jews who went against Jesus where liars the Apostle John said in John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
/ me quote Jesus judged the Pharisees who where Jews who went against Jesus,' Jesus Christ said in Matthew 23:14
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
/ me quote Paddy there is nothing wrong about witnessing lies because the truth will come to the light :) and Paddy another thing to is it was the Romans who nailed Jesus Christ to the Cross,' the Jews just stood there watching :) it,' it was a Roman cross Crucifixion of Jesus Christ

The Jewish high priests and elders of the Sanhedrin accused Jesus of blasphemy, arriving at the decision to put him to death. But first they needed Rome to approve of their death sentence, so Jesus was taken to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor in Judea. Although Pilate found him innocent, unable to find or even contrive a reason to condemn Jesus, he feared the crowds and let them decide Jesus' fate. Stirred by the Jewish chief priests, the crowds declared, "Crucify him!"

As was common, Jesus was publicly scourged, or beaten, with a leather-thonged whip before his crucifixion. Tiny pieces of iron and bone chips were tied to the ends of each leather thong, causing deep cuts and painful bruising. He was mocked, struck in the head with a staff and spit on. A prickly crown of thorns was placed on his head and he was stripped naked. Too weak to carry his cross, Simon of Cyrene was forced to carry it for him. When the religious leaders came to the decision to put Jesus to death, they wouldn't even consider that he might be telling the truth""that he was, indeed, their Messiah. As the chief priests condemned Jesus to death, refusing to believe him, they sealed their own fate. Have you, too, refused to believe that what Jesus said about himself was true? Your decision about Jesus could seal your own fate as well, for eternity. The Jews did not kill Jesus. The Jewish leaders were instrumental in getting Him executed, but they did not crucify Him.
The Jewish Sanhedrin was able to try Jesus for blasphemy under Mosaic law (Luke 22:71) and succeeded, but could not pass the penalty of execution because they did not have the authority to do so. (John 18:32)
Jesus was then taken before the prefect of Judaea, Pontius Pilate, who although noting that he found Jesus innocent of any charges (Luke 23:4,16)- at least under Roman law; religious law was handled by the relevant religious authority, in this case the Sanhedrin, with any major punishment subject to Roman control - but signed the warrant for fear of causing riots as the crowd had been worked to fever pitch by the Sanhedrin. (Luke 23:24)

He was then crucified by Roman soldiers, in a decidedly Roman way. Had Jesus been executed by the Sanhedrin, He would have been stoned to death. Paddy do u know who the Sanhedrin is let me help u as u may not of heard who the Sanhedrin are Sanhedrin The highest judicial and ecclesiastical council of the ancient Jewish nation, composed of from 70 to 72 members. "Jewish council that operated in ... so Paddy if it was the Jews who want to kill Jesus them selves they would of stoned him to death. but Jesus was was nailed to the cross Jesus died on the cross Paddy u are confused here Paddy the Apostle John said in John 18:31
31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:
/ me quote that is right,' it was not lawful for the Jews to put Jesus to death that is why the Jews wanted the Romans to kill Jesus instead of them. the reason why there cannot be any error in what the Apostle John had said is this the Jews did not kill Jesus,' it was the Romans so the Romans had that command to have Jesus Christ killed,' it was not the Jews them self that where aloud to kill Jesus,' because the Jews did not put Jesus to death Paddy u have not head this before the Jews had a law but the Jews who where against Jesus tried their best to have Jesus found guilty under there law,' but the Jews failed that is why the Jews wanted Pilate to find Jesus guilty but Pilate found no fault with Jesus. so thus Jesus was proven to be innocent,' :) the Jews who where against Jesus did not find him guilty. so thus Jesus had to be trial'ed by Pilate who found no fault in Jesus,' so thus the Jews did not kill Jesus there cannot be any error in John 18:31 there are here is proof Jesus Christ is God the Apostle John said in 1 John 5:20
King James Version (KJV)
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
/ me quote i say checkmate Paddy
DeusMortisEst

Con

"Paddy u got it wrong about what the Apostle John said u cannot understand the bible until u be born again"

That isn't a compelling argument, that's just an excuse.

"Paddy why are u going way off topic"

I'm not going off topic. I haven't once gone off topic in this whole debate.

"i say checkmate Paddy"

You can say checkmate all you want, you still haven't won yet. The debate has to go to vote...

---

To sum up.
Again my opponent, rather than constructing a compelling and thoughtful argument, has resorted to quoting scripture and informing me that as an unbeliever I will never understand it.
My initial argument, concerning the historicity vs the divinity of Jesus, has not been adequately addressed by my opponent except through the use of biblical sources, despite the fact that there is no evidence that the whole of the bible is true. I have challenged my opponent to demonstrate the infallibility and total accuracy of the bible but he has failed to adequately do so. His argument being that because real life phenomena, places and people have been described in the bible then it must be 100% accurate, which I demonstrated to be a flawed line of logic.

In conclusion:
There is no verifiable evidence that Jesus Christ, even if we accept his historicity, was anything more than a human being.
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by likespeace 3 years ago
likespeace
Ahh! Good to know. :)
Posted by DeusMortisEst 3 years ago
DeusMortisEst
It's ok, Paddy is my name lol...
Posted by likespeace 3 years ago
likespeace
From Wiktionary--

"Paddy may refer to:
an ethnic slur for an Irishman"

Unless there is some other reason that Pro is calling Con by this name, this would seem to be an automatic loss of conduct points, and justification to close Dale.G's account?
Posted by Dale.G 3 years ago
Dale.G
Paddy did not address some of my questions here is what i said to Paddy Another thing to is would a Judge accept a dead persons Testimony i will let u answer that question i said i will say it Again,' would a Judge accept a dead persons Testimony / me quote Paddy failed to stay on Topic the topic was Jesus Christ is God Paddy went off topic by changing the Topic by saying There is no evidence that, if the historicity of Jesus is proven, he was anything more than a human being. Biblical references to Jesus and his apparent supernatural abilities and apparent divine lineage can't prove anything more than any legend that happens to feature an historical figure./ me quote Paddy needs to stay on topic
Posted by TheRider2012 3 years ago
TheRider2012
I think we can all see just from the parts of the debate from Dale.G, that most of the material is copied and pasted straight off of a website, and most of the stuf written by him is barely understandable. Couldn't put his point across clearly and succinctly if his eternal soul depended on it.
Posted by Dave_Foda 3 years ago
Dave_Foda
Dale's opening statement isn't even debatable in its current form. But DeusMortisEst did a good job of pinning it down, I think.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by DWolf2k2 3 years ago
DWolf2k2
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro, for simplicity's sake, failed to fulfill BoP. And was a jerk for much of it and unable to use grammar.
Vote Placed by minstrel 3 years ago
minstrel
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: horrible spelling and grammar, rude behavior, and circular reasoning were all shown by pro.
Vote Placed by rowsdower 3 years ago
rowsdower
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Con lost conduct points for saying checkmate. Con's S/G are terrible. Con made no attempt to establish the accuracy of the bible using anything other than the bible.
Vote Placed by CIIReligion 3 years ago
CIIReligion
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO did not have any good arguments. Nor does he know how to debate.
Vote Placed by jh1234l 3 years ago
jh1234l
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: S/G to con because pro frequently uses "u" instead of you. Arguments to con because pro failed to meet his BOP.
Vote Placed by Luggs 3 years ago
Luggs
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro made more S/G mistakes, Con had better arguments.
Vote Placed by Bodhivaka 3 years ago
Bodhivaka
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro apparently thought that simply quoting from the Bible was enough to warrant the claim of Christ's divinity -- when asked by Con to provide evidence of why the Bible should be trusted at all, Pro failed to present any compelling arguments; as such, Con gets points for arguments, as well as S&G points for obvious reasons.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Between the insults, the poor S&G, and the incredibly poor "arguments" on Pro's side, I can only hope that this was a troll debate.
Vote Placed by DeFool 3 years ago
DeFool
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: I seldom award for conduct, but I did so in this case because of the prolific plagiary and quote mining that seemed to comprise the bulk of Pro's argument. S&G decidedly should go to Con. I preface my explanation for arguments by pointing out that no person on this Earth hates Jesus more than I do. However, by pointing out that following biblical teaching constitutes a religious act, holding Jesus in deific awe is justified. Of course Jesus was a lunatic human with no super-powers. This argument did not convince me, because of the large numbers of human gods - such as Kim Jong Il, Pharaohs and Emperors. (This argument was not used in the debate, and I do not use it to justify my decision.) I would have liked Con to explain why humans cannot also be gods. Con has done better in this debate than my scoring reflects - I hope to see more of this debater's contests.
Vote Placed by likespeace 3 years ago
likespeace
Dale.GDeusMortisEstTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro established the Christian bible says what he claims, but does not establish the veracity of said bible. His argument that the bible is true because it predicts "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." seems very weak. Those things had all come to pass many times before the bible was written, and recurrences would not be unexpected. I award Con conduct points due to Pro's excessive quoting and his troll-like responses, such as: "then u do not believe there has being Earthquakes And war's and Famines that has happen when their is proof that War's and Famines and Earthquakes that has happen". That examples also serves to explain the S & G point. Sources is a tie because, the bible is not a bad source, it was just poorly used in this debate.