The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
9 Points

Jesus Christ is not a fraud

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/3/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,160 times Debate No: 38453
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (2)




Jesus Christ is real. He is also the son of God, that suffered for everyone's sins. Accept Jesus Christ, have faith in God through Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Jesus Christ is real and I will provide evidences and proofs of Jesus Christ's existence based on ancient findings, logic, and Biblical facts.


Pro, I do accept your challenge and eagerly await your opening arguments. I ask, however, that we do drop the word "fraud". I do not believe Jesus did not exist, I simply do not believe that he was the son of god.

I will be arguing that Jesus was not the Son of God, but since I have no evidence to use to support that idea, all I can do is hope that Pro accepts his burden of proof and provides evidence for my scrutiny. The reason i cannot provide evidence that Jesus was not God is because there is no evidence of his supernatural claims. I will be very interested in the ensuing debate.

I will make it noted that in a discussion about world hunger in the opinion questions, Pro said that "Oh that makes sense! You're an atheist! I bet you think Jesus Christ was a fraud too!"

Anyways, let us begin.
Debate Round No. 1


Jesus Christ is real. He is also the son of God, that suffered for everyone's sins. Accept Jesus Christ, have faith in God through Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Jesus Christ is real and I will provide evidences and proofs of Jesus Christ's existence based on ancient findings, logic, and Biblical facts.

Con, in your Bio, you claimed that "You don't believe in God"
Ok. so you do believe in Jesus Christ?
If you believe in Jesus Christ, you should also believe in the Bible.
If you believe in Jesus Christ and not believe in God, then you're fooling yourself for believing in Jesus.
I can not argue about Jesus Christ being the son-of God if you don't believe in Father God that is in the 3rd Level of Heaven.
So are you saying that the universe created itself? and not by God- who created every thing?
Let's change the topic to "God created the universe"
Now, you will have to state your arguments and theories to provide evidences, opinions, and logic that God didn't create the universe.


Pro, your argument sounds more like an attempt to witness to me (a former christian, by the way) rather than an argument. Also, if I believe that Jesus Christ existed as a human here on earth, just as I believe Mohammad existed and was here on earth or that Buddha was a human that existed here on earth, it does not follow that I believe in the bible, the Koran, or the teachings of Buddha.

What I do not believe is the supernatural stories of his death and Resurrection among many other miraculous claims in the bible. There is no proof to back them up.

I am sorry, but I do not accept the subject change. I do not know enough about the Big Bang to debate it on this site that requires so much evidence to provide a legitimate argument.

You claim twice that you have ancient findings, logic, and biblical facts for Jesus is the son of god. And you very well can continue this debate in this matter because if you can prove that Jesus is the son of god, then you have not only proven god and Jesus, you have proven Christianity. This is a great opportunity for you, Pro. Why not provide the evidence?
Debate Round No. 2


First of all, the topic is "Jesus is not a fraud"
The topic is not "Jesus Christ's supernatural acts really happened" although i have faith that it's real.
Also, since you changed the topic, that you don't believe Jesus Christ is the one and only son of God, then that's fine.
Since this argument is about Jesus Christ, the Bible will be the major references and evidences for this discussion.
If you do not believe in the teachings and words of the Bible, then I'm afraid i can't longer have a discussion with you about this. You don't believe that Jesus is the son-of-God, probably because you don't believe in the Bible.
You also don't believe about the miracles and supernatural things that Jesus did, also because you don't believe on the Bible's writings.
So logically, you only believe of his existence, but not his apostles? and this resulted you to be close-minded about the Bible. And if you do believe in the apostles, then you should also believe on their books in the Bible. Because if not, then you shouldn't consider yourself to believe in Jesus, the apostles, and The Holy Bible.
You simply can not say that you believe in the existence of Jesus, but not accept biblical facts.
Here are verses from the Bible that support Jesus being the son of God. It's your personal problem if you won't accept these.

Mar 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

So Jesus Christ is God, and was within father God since the beginning.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

The WORD on this verse means God. Who was with God in the beginning? Read Proverbs 8:22 again. That makes Jesus Christ a God also.
How can Jesus Christ have the ability to be resurrected and judge on the judgment day if he's just a normal being? He can do these things because he is the son of God.

Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

How many? There are two. Jesus Christ and God will judge, now if Jesus Christ is just a normal being? why would he have the right to judge?
Jesus Christ claims that he's the son of God. But he didn't say that he's as equal as Father God.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life according to this verse.

Below is a series of verses for the people that keeps refusing God and His words:

24 Because I have called, and ye refused;
I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel,
and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your fear cometh;

27 When your fear cometh as desolation,
and your destruction cometh as whirlwind;
when distress and anguish cometh upon you;

28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer;
they shall seek me early,
but they shall not find me:

29 For that they hated knowledge,
and did not choose the fear of the Lord:
Proverbs 1: 24-29

It's your choice to believe in the Bible or not. It's your choice to believe in God. Because one can't simply provide "evidences" to someone that acquires no faith of God and the son of God- Jesus Christ. Believing in God is really not about "evidences," it's about having faith. As a matter of fact, I don't believe in what the Catholics invented about the true image of Jesus. The Bible has no description of the visual representation of Jesus, therefore I don't believe what the early Catholics had claimed about that. But what's in the Bible is that those who attain short hair for men are more likely to be close with God. So why would Jesus have a long wavy hair according to Leonardo Da Vinci, a Roman Catholic that did most of the paintings for the Vaticans and early big Churches. And for women, women should have long hair.
It's not because you haven't seen God, there is no God.
And please don't start the phrase that most atheists uses, "if God exists, why can't he just himself."
Because that wouldn't fit on this discussion if I add that too.

John 20:25-28
So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe." 26After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you." 27Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Farewell Jake.
Thanks be to God.


I knew the bible was going to be a large part of the argument. I was looking more for the Ancient findings evidences.... But have a good one. If you wish to have debate that uses Empirical evidence and sources such as the debate between creationism and Evolution, then I will gladly accept. I haven't researched the big bang, so in any debates you and I have let's leave it out of the idea until I have read my books on the subject, which I have yet to do.

Until next time, good sir.

May the Flying Spaghetti Monster be with you, His noodely appendage touch you, and his great meatballs of wisdom guide you.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DanielDate 3 years ago
"Well I do discriminate against Religion on the simple ground that it destroys an individual's ability to be Rational."

Lies. Research the Bolshevik Revolution.
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Well I do discriminate against Religion on the simple ground that it destroys an individual's ability to be Rational.
It reduces rationality and increases the individuals ability to make irrational decisions and thus mistakes.
It is bad for their ability to lead and run large organizations like a Nation.
We should have Rationality tests for all prospective National Leaders, to ensure that Nations like the US don't make massive blunders as such Irrational leaders like George Bush has made in the past that US is still having issues from.
Religious fundamentalists are amongst the least Intelligent humans on the planet.
If the US adopts Rationality (RQ) testing as many industries now use for testing future employees, there will likely never be a GOP government, because non of their leaders would pass the tests.
So I attack Religion on the lack of Intelligence that it endows it's following with and extremely low Intelligence of it's leadership. TV evangelists are a great example of people with very low Intelligence.
I attack religion on the ground that it can be proven that Religious Fundamentalists are completely Unintelligent.
Since Intelligence requires a high degree of Rationality, which they possess extremely little of.
LOL! :-D~
Posted by Jakeross6 3 years ago
Yes, I hate it when people say that we discriminate against religion. We don't have the power to do that in America.
Posted by 2-D 3 years ago
Many sites have a much higher concentration of atheists since the internet is anonymous and there is a lot of prejudice against Atheists in the United States Ironically Christians often talk about discrimination when they are the vast majority.

We do not have a large convenient outlet to network and form communities like a church so many flock to the internet. Nationally I think we are about 5-10% atheist and around 16% not affiliated with a religion.
Posted by Jakeross6 3 years ago
21 percent compared to 44 percent of the population of DDO being Christian?
Posted by Mr.Moves3 3 years ago
The amoumt of atheists on this site is ridiculously enourmous
Posted by Jakeross6 3 years ago
Thanks for voting, Y'all!
Posted by 2-D 3 years ago
Reading some of the better Debaters is a great way to learn. I am sure there are some debaters that like religious topics among the top ten since Christianity is easily the majority religion with 44%:

Atheists and agnostics combine to make 33% so there are a lot of topics like this that help our groups to understand each other.
Posted by 2-D 3 years ago
Moves, the bible is a great resource in a dogma debate, like the one we are having. In this context you would have to prove that the bible is a reliable resource.

A lot of what you believe is likely based on faith which is an important part of Christianity for many people. These don't tend to make great debate topics. There are many great Christian members on this site and they tend to avoid faith based arguments unless arguing with other Christians.
Posted by Jakeross6 3 years ago
Will you forfeit this round, Pro, or will you present any sort of evidence?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Chrysippus 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct: Con. Pro attempts to change the resolution in R2. SP/G: Tied. Arguments: Con. Pro failed to present any actual evidence supporting the resolution, and claims in R3 that there is no evidence to present. He clearly failed to fulfill the BOP. Sources: tied.
Vote Placed by 2-D 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro didn't offer any evidence to support his resolution and con pointed this out. I gave sources to con because bible references, while useful in a dogma debate, were inappropriate here.