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Jesus Created Antichrist.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/15/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 292 times Debate No: 86642
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
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Hello, I shall be promoting the idea that the existence of THE Antichrist is dependent on Jesus' actions, inactions and words.

Jesus- the Gospel's account of a Jewish carpenter's rise to fame and death, and supposed re-rise. Quoting him endlessly is counterproductive, if you plan on boring the audience with preaching at me instead of debating and interpreting, reading between the lines... That is how you shall put me in my place.

Create- (Google)
1.bring (something) into existence.
"he created a thirty-acre lake"
synonyms:produce, generate, bring into being, make, fabricate, fashion, build, construct; More
2.cause (something) to happen as a result of one's actions.
"divorce only created problems for children"
synonyms:bring about, give rise to, lead to, result in, cause, breed, generate, engender, produce, make for, promote, foster, sow the seeds of, contribute to
"regular socializing creates good team spirit"
3.(of an actor) originate (a role) by playing a character for the first time.

I shall be utilizing these three approaches to the term "create". Should you be dissatisfied with the objectivity of these definitions, exercise sound judgment. Turning this into a definition debate will distract and reduce the likelihood of a clear winner.

Antichrist: The ultimate bad guy found mainly in the Book of Revelation. An ambitious freak of "supernature", the antithesis of all things Christlike. THE impostor who will deceive the world of his "divinity."
Adding to this definition is welcome as long as it is biblically relevant or insightful.

The opponent can begin his rebuttal immediately, as I do not see the productivity in wasting rounds for mere formalities of accepting out of arbitrary politeness. Your attitude shall be apparent in future rounds anyway.

The crucifixion implies quite a few ramifications. When God abandoned his Son by looking away and letting sin merge with the sinless one, what would you expect to happen that the Bible fails to elaborate? How else do you end up with the ultimate fraud? Unless you propose that Satan "creates" him; however, within the Christian framework, Satan can only corrupt. Going in that direction, the Antichrist would have to start out with legitimate potential and become tainted along the way. The culpability rests on the blameless one either way; which, by the way, sounds like the plan. For the reason that the window of opportunity of introducing the son of perdition does not allow for many chances except the perfectly unique one aforementioned: when Jesus becomes the man of sin and rejects it. The question remains: what has been the scenario for 2000 years should that be the case? This falls under the first definition of "create".

The following is an example of the second, more passive definition. Jesus' inaction over the last 2000 years has left the world in a constantly decaying state of immoral devolution and self-righteous decay. Christians have inadequate direction and leadership. The Antichrist would have a field day with manipulating today's decadent moral landscape, vindicating secular consciences with wicked technicalities. Christians would be disadvantaged by their incompetence and lack of credibility and popularity. Joseph Smith's legacy still stands because Jesus did not have the courtesy of being offended enough to do something about being exploited by a minor antichrist.

Jesus introduced the concept of an antichrist, and with narcissism. Who proclaims to have a direct opposite of themselves? Be careful of what you wish for, messiah. Your record is only three short years long, if that. The most extensive sociopathic act of impersonating the messiah is karmic. Jesus came off as an antichrist himself, boasting about his divinity and mission, blaspheming and heresy.

Good luck and thank you for humoring me.


OH good I get to say more: I put my rebuttal as a comment-sorry, new to this area. I'll learn. Yes God created me, you pharaohs, Satan and all things. They were created by Him and for Him all things were created. They are designed to accomplish divine purposes in life. So you under the impression that God doesn't exist simply because some of His creation decide to act a fool? Where is the Logic in That? God created us with free wills so that unlike the animals, we would not just walk around mindlessly, functioning completely by instinct, and unable to fellowship with him. Angels also given free wills, but were created as servants of the most high that is their function. We on the other hand were created for a higher purpose- His children, to share in His creation, and as such be able to communicate and fellowship with Him freely and on a level that NO OTHER created creature was capable of doing. The fact that some angels rebelled isn't the point is it? I mean WE REBEL yeah?. The point is we are ALL creations of God. Because of the fall of man through Adam, we are under condemnation- another words we MUST DIE because of our sin- you know the wages of sin stuff! Well God has made it possible in His Grace and Love of his creation for those WHO ARE WILLING to be reconciled to Him. Jesus PAID the debt you and I could not pay. He took upon himself all the acts of sinful man so that whomsoever will believe on him His blood covers ALL sins you will commit past present and future. He becomes YOUR sacrificial Lamb, and in return a Holy God, grants or (imputes) to YOU Christ righteousness, so that you become blameless. As I have already shown you in the comments I made earlier, you DO LIVE like a christian, you just suppress the truth. All nonbelievers LIVE contrary to what they profess. YOU CANNOT CLAIM science, heck not even the scientist can claim science UNLESS they are believers. cause in order for them to claim it they must acknowledge the physical and natural order of God's universe. The indwelling knowledge of right and wrong that He put within His creation. That's that feeling you get when you consider doing something you KNOW IS WRONG. You know the little devil on your left shoulder and the Angel on your Right? When you STOP living like you really believe everything IS RANDOM, chaotic, no right or wrong, then we'll debate. Let me just say that God has made away for YOU to be forgiven, for YOU to be saved. Come closer man and SEE that God IS GOOD! So to the point God created the Antichrist -------- yeah He Did, but unlike the Antichrist-YOU STILL HAVE HOPE. Don't blow it man, Please!
Debate Round No. 1


Aside from the unnecessary and unoriginal preaching, I am grateful for there to be an opponent to this peculiar claim.

Assuming I wish to even address my opponent's approach and humor his assumption that I am unaware of what he was attempting to say, I did not learn anything from his rebuttal, especially anything relevant to my argument. Going from there, refuting his off topic sermon presents a nice opportunity to drive home the point that I am an unrepentant heretic and there is futility in trying to reconvert me. I still identify as a Christian, since I am still willing and capable of proclaiming Jesus Christ as the messiah.

As for continuing the debate, my fourth contention would seem improvised and based solely on the reaction to my opponent. Christians are creating the Antichrist as well. Like the ancient Hebrews building for the Egyptians, Christians are constructing the Antichrist's empire before he even appears and can steal it from them. Scandals, corruption, inaction, these are all rationales the Antichrist can utilize to turn the world completely against the Christians and Jesus. This ties into my second contention as well.

Why would God allow this? As if this were inconsistent with his tactics and behavioral history. People will blame God for such an evil man to be in charge of the world, but if God gets ahead of the blame game and turns it on its head, eradicating the blame through Jesus, infinitely enhancing Jesus' blameless nature and silencing embittered rebels.

According to River Hills, making things worse is an opportunity to demonstrate God's justice, power and grace.

Allowing the ultimate bad guy to take over the world demonstrates objective fairness towards evil to let it takes its best potshot at good and fail. Unable to complain about an overpowered arbiter of good who is the ironic dictator for providing free will, evil slithers back to hell for regrouping time and again. Why be fair to evil? Good is self-sacrificial and willing to undertake inconveniences to prove how good it really is. What does this have to do with Jesus creating Antichrist? Jesus (knowingly?) let God do this subtle procedure to establish the endgame 2000 years early. This should be why Christians praise God for the preemptively finished work on the cross.


Culpability rests on the blameless one? Free WILL REMEMBER? . No man sins at the behest of God. God does not ALLOW sin, He doesn't even associate with it. What man does man carries full and total responsibility for. Were this not so ALL men would go to Heaven because they were not responsible for their behavior. You forget that man serves ONLY one of two masters. God or the devil. Those who commit sin in ALL its occurrences DO NOT BELONG to God. They serve their master the devil.
God would need to remove the free will of man to STOP all sin. This would create a world of creatures without choice, without imagination and more importantly without the ability to CHOOSE to serve Him. You see you fail to consider the situation from the stand point of God himself. IF God wanted servants without free will, without the ability to converse in any real meaningful way, He would have simply created more angels. they do his bidding, what they don't do is sit and discuss matters WITH HIM. They are there to do His bidding, not as companions. Man was created to BE Gods CHILDREN, to behave as our own do with us. It is VERY easy for me to look back on my youth when my children were young and remember fondly the discussions we had together, their inquisitive minds, their reverence towards me as their father. How daddy could fix anything and everything. You DON'T get that with servants, ONLY with your children. It is not to much for God to desire the same thing is it?
His love and desire to create children with which to share His creation is precisely the reason he had to MAKE a way to save His children who through disobedience in sin earned them DEATH! 2 peter chapter 2 points out quite clearly that:

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; 5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)" 9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the flesh and despise authority.

Through the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, ALL are give power to walk in the way of righteousness having PUT_OFF the ways of the flesh, and put on the new creature which is in Christ Jesus, that they CAN walk in the faith to righteousness while those who serve the flesh, the world and the devil shall continue to walk in those way, bring upon themselves the judgements of God, whom they wrongfully blame for their corrupt and depraved ways. Romans Chapter 1 says it plain enough. PUT AWAY your theological books and get yourself BACK into Gods word which ANSWERS ALL QUESTIONS of men. You don't know because you don't seek, instead wanting others to GIVE you the answers you refuse to seek for yourself. IF you truly wish to know the answers? Go to God, because it is plain that you are looking for YOUR OWN ANSWER and that, no one else can give you because we do not KNOW what YOUR answer is. The answer you seek MUST come from God and God alone. Do not seek your answers from the finite wisdom of man? Go to the source of all knowledge HE can and WILL give you the answer you seek. as to Christ be Thankful that God loved you enough to sacrifice
Jesus so that through His stripes you could be healed and brought back into communion with Him. Christ DIED so that YOU and all those LIKE you might live and BE SAVED!
Debate Round No. 2


It seems the only viable argument my opponent made is by objecting to the culpability being cast on blameless Jesus. I assure you, this would create a "vacuum", absorbing all the responsibility that "belongs" to God the Father, rendering all sin meaningless in an infinity of irrelevance. It worked for sin and mankind. The Antichrist being the culminating sin of Christians over 2000 years of incompetence as well as God's overall permission of such an atrocity.

Reiterating my points:
1. Jesus' act of sacrifice included sacrificing his time on earth for the bigger picture.
2. Jesus' millennial inaction has allowed for the unholy spirit of the Antichrist to fester and evolve.
3. Jesus putting on a preemptive act of how to be the Antichrist is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
4. Christians are helping out their misguided messiah.

For future reference, please address everything I say. Feedback is why I do this.


tsh, you simply do not understand! YOU HAVE NO POINTS. You haven't HAD a POINT since we started! You haven't provided a SINGLE iota of evidentiary support for ANY of your statements. All I've heard is your imagination ..... UNSUPPORTED imagination. So give me some indication or inkling that you EVEN KNOW what your talking ABOUT! What are you basing your points ON!

1. Jesus' act of sacrifice included sacrificing his time on earth for the bigger picture. ??????? where DID you get this notion?
2. Jesus' millennial inaction has allowed for the unholy spirit of the Antichrist to fester and evolve. ????? Evidence that supports this contention? again outside your imagination please.
3. Jesus putting on a preemptive act of how to be the Antichrist is a self-fulfilling prophecy.???? demonstrates a clear LACK of any truths whatsoever! again no supportive evidence.
4. Christians are helping out their misguided messiah. ?????? WOW you really haven't a clue of what your talking about.

Christ act of sacrifice WAS necessary to RESTORE the children of God to Himself. Matthew says : Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
you make it sound like He came here to walk about for perpetuity with sinful man. not even close- where is your evidence outside opinion, you have not established credibility in any of your points that exist outside your imagination.

The Antichrist fester and evolve? where do you get that from. Satan needs no festering he hates with a intensity no mortal understands, and his sole purpose for you and any loved by God is to destroy them, keep them from turning to God and being redeemed. he wants you to suffer and die, and here's the part that really is gonna tweak your melon, YOU ALREADY BELONG TO HIM. Matthew 12:30 clearly states "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

Jesus putting on a per-emptive act? are you for real? Listen debating is all well and good, but either put up REAL EVIDENCE in support of your alleged POINTS or in this case hallucinations or stop clouding up the boards with unsubstantiated, unsupported, unfounded rhetoric.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 5 months ago
God has been proven to be Real and Evolution a Lie in Debate" The Proof that God exists IS Mans unique existence."
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
>Reported vote: rextr05// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Pro attempted to use the literal word of the bible, all the while seemingly unaware of the message contained. "When God abandoned his Son by looking away and letting sin merge with the sinless one, ..." Pro fails to realize that God didn't abandon Jesus. If Jesus wanted to, He could have called for legions of angels, yep, that's in the bible Matt 26:53 to save himself or the Father could have done that. It was the plan of God to save us from sin, as you state, not abandon Jesus. Also, Pro's "Jesus' inaction over the last 2000 years ..." He fails to tell us that Jesus told us He was not going to be around anymore, until the end that is, but He was sending part of the Trinity, Holy Spirit, to be with us. Once again, lack of knowledge hurts his argument. Because of instance such as these, I must reinforce Con's conclusion of the lack of Pro's credible evidence cuz of this lack of biblical expertise. Pro used talking points without checking their ramifications.

[*Reason for removal*] While the voter does appear to justify sources sufficiently, he fails to explain conduct, S&G or arguments. Sources may inform arguments, but they aren't sufficient reasoning in and of themselves.
Posted by Sophisto 8 months ago
Please refrain from further preaching. It is futile and the voters will penalize you for it. Your argument can still be saved if you keep the third and FINAL round on topic. I fear this will not get across at all.
Posted by Sophisto 8 months ago
Did you assume I believe in pure randomness? And then hold that as a condition as to whether you shall actually make an effort to debate? This is not the forums where you can preach, as I explicitly forbade. Passively forfeiting the round by choosing to preach instead will render me the victor. Please attempt to refute my claims instead of grandstanding and going off topic.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 8 months ago
Simplistically put: The creator of all things is precisely what it infers. As to Satan and all angels for that fact-they are indeed created by God and for set purposes. The sinful people of the world are just that! Sinful. But God made a WAY for Man to be saved. That People CHOOSE to continue in sin is their choices alone not Gods. You see God created Man to interact with Him to enjoy His creation with Him. Satan was not willing to serve man and set about deceiving -well you know who. Then he and other Heavenly beings attempted to corrupt human genes to stop God from saving anybody.
Despite your reluctance to profess God as your Lord, you LIVE like a christian, you simply suppress the truth with a lie. A lie that not even YOU live. God said He HAS MADE HIMSELF KNOWN TO YOU, so that when you appear before him, you will have NO EXCUSE. it can be found in chapter 1 of Romans, I highly suggest you read it or not as you wish! So what is this contradiction in your Life? You continuously rely on: Gravity holding you down when you get up. you rely on food and water to keep you alive, you get upset when someone you love dies, or when someone steals something that belongs to you. That's called the principle of Induction we all have it and do it! You never doubt your going to get paid each payday if you work. You Work because you KNOW you cannot Live unless you do. No No, you Live as a Christian alright, you just SUPPRESS the truth. Yes God created antichrist and you too, The antichrist made his own choice, an there is still you? God created man to communion with Him, gave us free will, otherwise we would just be all instincts like the dogs and UNABLE to commune with him. He set into action the plan of salvation for the entire world. That some will not choice to accept it is NOT His fault is it. God gets blamed for much but as you just said...Antichrist, those who commit crimes, murders, rapes, and the like do NOT belong to God they belong to Satan.
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