The Instigator
JoelNuge
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
backwardseden
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Jesus Rose From The Dead

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
JoelNuge
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2018 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 weeks ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 844 times Debate No: 106988
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (50)
Votes (1)

 

JoelNuge

Pro

Welcome, contender. I am arguing FOR the fact that Jesus really did rise from the dead.

Rules:

- Please accept this debate only if you believe/think that Jesus DID NOT rise from the dead.
- Refer to scripture as much as possible when composing your argument.
- DO NOT post an argument in round one, we will start the debate in round 2
- Round 2 will be only for opening arguments.
- From round 3 onward you are free to rebuttal and introduce new arguments as you wish.
- In your first response to this argument, simply state the side of the argument that you are on, then we can begin.
- Good luck and God bless you.
backwardseden

Con

Its very clear and disjointed that jesus did not rise from the dead. Its not a belief because you as the the host of this debate cannot test nor demonstrate in any way your hypothesis that he did. Nor can you test nor demonstrate that jesus was the messiah. Indeed the jews have it right and jesus was a false profit. So you've got a lot to prove.

RULES:
dsjpk5 will not be allowed to vote in the voting process.
Debate Round No. 1
JoelNuge

Pro

First of all, I am not here to argue that Jesus was the messiah, or that the Jews were wrong (Even if I do that in the process). I am arguing for the fact that Jesus rose from the dead.

To begin, we need to list all of the plausible explanations, (These are widely used arguments and alternative explanations against Jesus' resurrection).
1 - He wasn't really dead
2 - The disciples stole the body and claimed he was alive
3 - The disciples were hallucinating
4 - Jesus was the son of God and he really did rise from the dead.

1: This argument is invalid and disprovable, due to the confirmed death of Christ, as documented in the Gospel of John, where a spear was cast into Jesus' side. This, according to Jim Bishop (The Day Jesus Died"(New York: Harper Collins, 1977), 257.), "The dead do not bleed, ordinarily, but the right auricle of the human heart holds liquid blood after death, and the outer sac hold a serum called hydro pericardium.", which explains Jesus bleeding, but also a spear to the side as explained in the Bible that it would have pierced his lungs and his right auricle (lining of atria) of the heart, therefore leading death anyway. The death was confirmed by Pontius Pilate before taking him down to be buried.

2: Every single disciple suffered a gruesome death (except for one) and suffered ridiculously terrible persecution when they claimed to have seen Christ resurrected, however, if the disciples knew exactly what had happened, that they had stolen Christ's body and hidden it, nobody would have faced the persecution any longer than they would have wanted. People generally will not stand this kind of discrimination for a fact that they know is false, whereas people will in fact stand up for ideas that they DO believe in, whether that fact is right or wrong, just like the 9/11 hijackers did, as they believed that it was a worthy cause that they did believe in. Therefore, we can understand that the disciples definitely were under the impression that Jesus rose from the dead, ruling out the fact that they made it up. Additionally, before the resurrection, these men were timid and cowardly, and afterwards they were able to speak and preach in front of crowds of hundreds about something they believed to be true, therefore there must have been something to change that, which would not have come out of faking a resurrection.

3: Sometimes people 'see' things that they want to see, therefore it is reasonable to assume that the disciples were so stricken with grief, that they were hoping to see him and they consequently did. However, the very nature of hallucinations goes completely against this explanation. Usually, hallucinations are mere anomalies, as stated by Psychologist Gary Collins: "Hallucinations are individual occurrences. By their very nature, only one person can see a given hallucination at a time. They certainly aren"t something which can be seen by a group of people." This shows that it wasn't possible for multiple people to experience the same hallucination at the same time, let alone 500 witnesses to Jesus' resurrection. Furthermore, as stated before, hallucinations are sometimes perceived by people that long to see a loved one, however, one man, The Apostle Paul, who was an acknowledged persecutor of Christians, one day simply converted to Christianity after an alleged sighting of Jesus, even though he hated Jesus and certainly wasn't hoping to see him. Even after spreading the word he too was executed by Nero and still proclaimed until the end that he saw Christ. This cannot all be down to hallucination, by the very nature of hallucination, it simply doesn't add up.

4: The last logical explanation for Jesus' resurrection is that he did indeed rise from the dead

After this, one can say that after looking at all the other evidence, the case is strong that Jesus did in fact rise from the dead. It may not be direct proof, as you cannot prove it directly either way, however this is why I believe the case to be strong.

Make sure that you clearly post your opening argument as opposed to rebutting what I have already said.
Thank you for you time and co-operation.
backwardseden

Con

Wow. Well first off in order for you to prove that jesus rose from the dead, you would have to prove him worthy of that decisive ideal, thus prove that he was the messiah in which he was not. Nevertheless, let"s see what you"ve got.

"To begin, we need to list all of the plausible explanations,"
"1 - He wasn't really dead" Isn"t plausible.
"2 - The disciples stole the body and claimed he was alive" Isn"t plausible according to the bible.
"3 - The disciples were hallucinating" Is very plausible and didn"t tell anything accurately. After all memory is not reliable.
"4 - Jesus was the son of God and he really did rise from the dead." Strange isn"t it that you did not want to argue that christ was not the messiah? Wow. Well that"s not true according to the bible at any rate as jesus was NOT the son of god.

1: You didn"t refer to scripture at all. So when you say "Refer to scripture as much as possible when composing your argument" it is expected that you do the same. Regardless, your god would not use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible so everybody like you can get it wrong. And the thing about it ESPECIALLY in quoting jesus, is how can anybody get it right when memory is truly unreliable? And then you have translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies with dead languages upon dead languages with absolutely no possible way to trace it back to the original. So NOBODY is interpreting correctly. Not you, not the pope, not any minister, not any priest, not any pastor, no-bo-dy.

2: You didn"t refer to scriptures at all. So when you say "Refer to scripture as much as possible when composing your argument" it is expected that you do the same. Regardless, your god would not use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible so everybody like you can get it wrong. And the thing about it ESPECIALLY in quoting jesus, is how can anybody get it right when memory is truly unreliable? And then you have translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies with dead languages upon dead languages with absolutely no possible way to trace it back to the original. So NOBODY is interpreting correctly. Not you, not the pope, not any minister, not any priest, not any pastor, no-bo-dy.

3: You didn"t refer to scriptures at all. So when you say "Refer to scripture as much as possible when composing your argument" it is expected that you do the same. Regardless, your god would not use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible so everybody like you can get it wrong. And the thing about it ESPECIALLY in quoting jesus, is how can anybody get it right when memory is truly unreliable? And then you have translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies with dead languages upon dead languages with absolutely no possible way to trace it back to the original. So NOBODY is interpreting correctly. Not you, not the pope, not any minister, not any priest, not any pastor, no-bo-dy.

4: You didn"t refer to scriptures at all. So when you say "Refer to scripture as much as possible when composing your argument" it is expected that you do the same. Regardless, your god would not use text as a form of communication, the worst form of communication possible so everybody like you can get it wrong. And the thing about it ESPECIALLY in quoting jesus, is how can anybody get it right when memory is truly unreliable? And then you have translations upon translations upon translations upon copies upon copies upon copies upon copies with dead languages upon dead languages with absolutely no possible way to trace it back to the original. So NOBODY is interpreting correctly. Not you, not the pope, not any minister, not any priest, not any pastor, no-bo-dy.

So when you come up with proper translations from YOUR scriptures, then perhaps this debate can continue. But not until then.
Debate Round No. 2
JoelNuge

Pro

To begin, when you accepted this debate, you accepted the rules which clearly stated:

"- Round 2 will be only for opening arguments.
- From round 3 onward you are free to rebuttal and introduce new arguments as you wish"
Now obviously you have not kept to these rules, however I will still go on and forgive you, as Jesus would have wanted me to do, and you seem very adamant that you want Jesus being the Messiah to be proven, along with more scripture. As a result I have decided to meet your anger with the facts. Enjoy ;)

Proof Jesus was the Messiah:

There are over 300 prophesies stated in the old testament that Jesus later fulfilled, however obviously I cannot go through all of them, so I will state 3.

1: Prophecy - Jesus performed Miracles
Isaiah 35:5-6 (ESV) says, "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf unstopped; then shall the lame man leap like a deer, and the tongue of the mute sing for joy. For waters break forth in the wilderness, and streams in the desert."
Prophecy fulfilled:
Luke 7:21 (NKJV): "And that very hour He cured many of infirmities, afflictions, and evil spirits; and to many blind He gave sight."

2: Prophecy - Jesus was born in Bethlehem
Micah 5:2 (NKJV),"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."
Prophecy fulfilled:
Matthew 2:5-6 (NKJV), "And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel."

3: Prophecy - Jesus was born of a virgin
Isaiah 7:14 (NKJV) says, "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."
Prophecy fulfilled:
Matthew 1:23 (NKJV), "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us.""

Along with many other fulfilment of prophecies these prove that Jesus was indeed the Messiah that was talked about in the old testament.

In response to you saying that I was not including scripture in my original argument, here is an altered version:

"1: This argument is invalid and disprovable, due to the confirmed death of Christ, as documented in the Gospel of John, where a spear was cast into Jesus' side." John 19:34 (NIV) - "Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water."

"The death was confirmed by Pontius Pilate before taking him down to be buried." Mark 15:44 (NIV) - "Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph."

I hope that this helps you get over your rage that I wasn't referring to scripture. Please will you now give your reason why you think that Jesus did not rise from the dead, like you should have done during round three...
backwardseden

Con

First off, not much was stated in RD1 on my part to begin with.
I did not break the rules in any way because there was nothing for me to say. After all I cannot, according to you, bring in any scriptures, proving that christ is the false messiah thus proving that your entire argument is false.
But then again you proved yourself to be a contradictory hypocrite and you did not use scriptures in which you asked me to, which is a joke unto itself. AND I thus proved that YOUR god would NEVER use text, the worst form of communication possible.
So what do you do? YOU USE SCRIPTURE in RD 3. AND being the teeny bopper that you are without an education nor intelligence, you proved nothing but to BREAK YOUR OWN RULES!!!!!!! So don"t tell me that I break YOUR rules when you go out and break them.
ALL PROPHECIES that you have presented will be ignored because they are NOT part of YOUR subject matter at hand, and regardless absolutely no prophecies have been fulfilled. None. Wow are you so brainwashed that is not even funny as you go into absolute denial. And to top it off, AGAIN, YOUR bible is proof of nothing, 0, zip, nada so "Jesus Rose From The Dead" will only be talked about unless YOU state that YOUR rules will be changed.
And even worse for you is you use DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So how on the fricken earth of sniveling odoriferous dogpile of stinkeromous do---you---have---the---right---translation??? So---that---the---RIGHT---translation---is---communicated---correctly????? That answer my dear snugglepuss in a vacuum is in absolutely no way possible that you do. So even before you can present ANY evidence, YOUR argument is dead on arrival. Now watch this video and here"s an excerpt from one of them"
- christians don"t understand the character of god 6:45

"If god is all knowing and he knows the future of all events and he wrote a book that can only be interpreted as if it endorses slavery and if its heinous violence against your children against your neighbors" how could a god be that omnipotent and devise a book where we can"t distinguish between the law of Israel and god"s law? I mean their interwoven where we have metaphor and fact and nobody can distinguish the two. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take figuratively. We don"t know what we"re supposed to take literally. Was it actually a tree? I mean come on. How can anyone distinguish this. I mean come on. It doesn"t make any sense. It doesn"t matter how its translated. It doesn"t matter what version. If it was written by an omnipotent being there would be ONE VERSION. And there would be only ONE WAY to interpret it because it would be written well." Aron Ra
Actually it wouldn"t be written at all. What"s wrong with your god comin" down and talking to people? "Hey you know some of that stuff that"s in the book? I"m here to correct it." Matt Dillahunty

"We have to rely on copies of copies of anonymous authors with no originals and the textural testimony to a miracle for example, there"s no amount of reports, anecdotal reports that is sufficient to justify in believing that actually happened as reported. And anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand this and if it wanted to clearly convey this to people in a way that is believable would not be relying on ---TEXT--- to do so. And this to me is the nail in the coffin for christianity. The god that christians believe in is amazingly ---STUPID---!!! If it actually wants to achieve its goal by spreading its word to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony, that"s not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify for a god would know this.which shows either god does not exist or doesn"t care enough about the people to understand the nature of evidence to actually present it. Now which of those two possibilities is accurate?" Matt Dillahunty

"If jesus and Muhammad and abraham and moses had never been born, which in any case I tend to dabble, if all their stories were untrue were suddenly found and everyone had to admit it some people I know would show panic. Now what would we do? We"d have no morals suddenly. What could be more nonsensical than that? As the matter of fact the position that we occupy would---be---precisely---the---same as it is now if none of these texts had ever been written, as if none of these lacerations had ever been made. We would still have to reason together about how how to treat one another, about how to build a just city, and about how to have irony and a sense of humor." Christopher Hitchens

Then you have the gall and nerve to mention my anger when your god has freely admitted to having anger, wrath, vengeance, rage, fury, jealousy. So get a grip on any 2 bye bye bye 4 before yapping off at me. K? Jealousy? What from a supreme deity? Jealousy is nothing more than anger as disguised fear. Even worse is this supposed god of yours passed down those emotions so man could in turn learn to hate with all the baggage that comes along with it that these emotions clearly are that this god drags around with him. Hey god, dump those emotions and how"s about thinking about peace, kindness, love, caring for each other, harmony etc? Nah. So don"t talk to me or anyone that YOUR god is "good" when he is most certainly not anything like it. Not only that since this god of YOURS has these emotions it clearly means that he is imperfect. Now who in their right stale mind would ---ever--- want to bow down to an inferior supreme deity bile god such as the one you picked from your closet because what else could it be?
Strange isn"t it that in comparison that the Inca, many of the native American Indian tribes until your white man greasy sweaty racist pig christian wiped them out, the aborigines, Hindu"s, Gaia Mother Earth, Buddhists etc etc etc they do not practice nor preach nor go to war over their religions, not anywhere close to the evils nor hate that the christians do. Now why is that? And yet according to your god worshiping other gods is considered to be the most evil thing there is, and you should be stoned to death for it. So you follow your lord"s orders and you come on down here and stone me to death. Whatsamatter? You are not going to follow your god"s orders? Why? Why not?

Now do you wish to change YOUR rules? I will be more than happy to prove that your jesus was NOT the messiah.
Debate Round No. 3
JoelNuge

Pro

You know what, I'm really offended. I am truly offended by your foul vocabulary. I feel like there is no excuse for what you have called me. 'the teeny bopper'. I feel destroyed, wrecked, how could my God exist when there is this kind of discrimination in this world. 'my dear snugglepuss' ... I'm crying. How could someone have the guts to call me a snugglepuss. I find it hard to even believe that he said that to me.

(Btw, just to make sure you understand, that was all sarcasm)

To begin round four, I just want to take the time to congratulate my opponent for proving (As a wise man once stated) absolutely nothing. 0. Zip, Nada. I actually want to find out exactly what you have done during the course of this debate. In round one, you did exactly what you needed to, which was to accept the debate (would you like a gold star for that one?). In round two, what was expected of you was to present your opening argument. Let's have a cheeky peek at what work of pure art you produced: It seems that you have copied and pasted your argument let's count how many times, 1,2,3,4 times. A work of art, no. I'm afraid that will have to pass as a work of pure aut (Stems from autistic).

In round three, you were able to contain your Parkinson's a little more, even though what you were talking about had absolutely nothing, 0, zip, nada to do about Jesus rising from the dead. You just had an Alzheimer's breakdown and started talking about how Jesus wasn't the Messiah, (Which I proved in my previous debate but nevermind), whereas what would have been a good thing to write about would be why you have faith that Jesus did not rise from the dead. You tried, you didn't succeed, but at least you tried. Then you went on to talk about whether or not Christians know their God (Which couldn't have been further from relevant)

I have run the calculations, and it seems that 44.64% [1] of your previous debate isn't even your material, you just stole it from one of your atheist videos that wasn't even relevant in the slightest.

I never had in mind to respond like this but you need to be told that you really have a problem dealing with the task at hand - explaining why you have the faith that Jesus rose from the dead. I have no more to say than to ask you finally publish why you don't believe.

[1] - Out of 6410 characters typed, 2862 were dedicated to a quote. 2862/6410 = 0.4464.. x 100 = 44.64%
backwardseden

Con

Why should you be offended? Its not your fault that you being as young as you are, that you have a limited intelligence and a limited edumacation" that obviously gets sharpened, or at least I would hope that it would, as you get older. But you choosing religion, now that"s something that obviously requires a lot of work. Here"s a question for you that even the very best of christians cannot answer" why believe? And I"m talking about a legitimate reason. Not something just draped over a violin eating contest.

Now as far as my vocabulary" I use that for EVERYBODY, NO EXCEPTIONS, NONE when they flatly invent excuses and or flat out lie for something in which they know nothing about. And because they don"t rather than saying "I don"t know" which is what all good scientists and atheists will say, but are true terrorists words to christians such as yourself because dare your god NOT be perfect in which there"s no possible way that he is and that"s according to the ignorant backstabbing bible to christians themselves, so what happens is you pretend that you have knowledge for something and you bluff your way through it to those that know better. Bad idea. And when this happens it is my right, my tomato spill to destroy you, insult you, degrade you. This you will learn in college. If you do this to your teachers = instant F. No problem. If you do this to your friends and loved ones, which is why so many christians here on debate.org have no genuine friends or loved ones, then you will soon have no genuine friends or loved ones. Try it! Its such a HUGE red flag and super easy to spot.

And damn right your god with all of his hate should ab-so-lu-te-ly be discriminated against.

Now let"s get to the debate shall we?

Oh gosh golly gosh golly gosh gee gosh golly gosh gee gosh golly wow gosh golly gee gosh golly gosh golly gee gosh golly gosh golly gosh darned it all hmmmmmmm it seems like the bumbling babbling baby brained barbituite barbarian that you are still doesn"t get that you have not gotten that --- so what is in progress? Its not my job to prove that jesus has risen from the grave. That"s yours. And then its my job to refute it. And thus far 0 zip nada fro your scruffy owl cheeks to even prove that jesus has even existed, much less is the messiah, much less you use different translations thus proving that your entire argument is in complete error and cannot be accepted as previously proved in RD3.

Oh I see so now you are giving me permission for me to show you how jesus is NOT the messiah. I get it. So you are playing the fool who follows himself" "Who"s more the fool? The fool? Or the fool who follows him?" Now name where that came from.

Its quite simple really as millions of jews would disagree with you. AND there"s nowhere in the bible where your god states that he is the messiah. In other words, jesus cannot proclaim himself to be the messiah on his own. god, in which you cannot even prove exists, is required to do that.
Now here"s proof that jesus didn"t rise from the dead"
- Eyewitness Accounts of Jesus Resurrection | Stephanie - Tampa, FL | Atheist Experience 21.10

And here another vidie
Did Jesus Exist?
Debate Round No. 4
JoelNuge

Pro

https://imgflip.com... - Why did you just get someone else to debate for you?

To commence my final argument, I wish to begin by thanking my opponent for providing his very own original argument to the debate, where he certainly didn't link to another video to debate me at all.

I didn't think at the start of this debate that I would end up having to explain the fact that Jesus did in fact exist, and definitely didn't expect the contender to even question Jesus' existence, yet here we are.

Proof of Jesus' existence:

If you have ever studied history, you would know that generally, especially far in the past, that we are lucky to have one or two sources to confirm a fact. However, with Jesus' life, we have at least 5 major sources outside of the New Testament to confirm Christ's life here on earth, so let us begin:
1 - Josephus - The main writings of the 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity. (Books 18 and 20 refer to Jesus in detail) [1]
2 - Tacitus - The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work. [2]
3 - Mara Bar Serapion - Mara (son of Sarapion) was a Stoic philosopher from the Roman province of Syria. Sometime between 73 CE and the 3rd century, Mara wrote a letter to his son (also called Sarapion) which may contain an early non-Christian reference to the crucifixion of Jesus [3]
4 - Suetonius - The Roman historian Suetonius (c. 69 " after 122 CE) made references to early Christians and their leader in his work Lives of the Twelve Caesars (written 121 CE) [4]
5 - The Talmud - The Babylonian Talmud in a few cases includes references to Jesus using the terms "Yeshu", "Yeshu ha-Notzri", "ben Stada", and "ben Pandera" [5]

I have already proven that Jesus is the Messiah, but just so that you don't go on another autistic rant, I will add a few more examples of the fact that Jesus was the Messiah.

1 - He would be struck in the head with a rod and spat on - Micah 5:1
Matthew 27:30 - 'They spat on him, and took the staff and struck him on the head again and again' (NIV)
2 - His hands and feet would be pierced (Prophesised hundreds of years before crucifixion was invented) - Psalms 22:16
John 20:25 - 'Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were' (NIV)
3 - Men would gamble for His clothing - Psalms 22:18
John 19:23 - 'Let's decide by lot (gambling) who will get it' (NIV)
4 - He would cry, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me!" - Psalms 22:1
Matthew 27:46 - 'Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?' (Which translates to -"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?") (NIV)
5 - None of His bones would be broken - Psalms 34:20
John 19:34 - 'But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs' (NIV)
6 - He would enter Jerusalem on a colt - Zechariah 9:9
Luke 19:32 'Why are you untying the colt? They replied: 'The Lord Needs It' (NIV)
7 - He would be executed with thieves - Isiah 53:12
Matthew 27:38 - 'Two rebels were crucified with him, one on his right, and one on his left' (NIV)

I have now shown you 10 of the hundreds of pieces of evidence that Jesus was the Messiah

Your claim that my whole argument is invalid due to the fact that I use different translations is just so that you can find a way to cower away from my argument and find puny excuses in order to make yourself look better. But it doesn't even invalidate my argument. If anything it unites the different translations on to one fact, that Jesus rose from the dead.
And the fact that you think you have insulted me, demolished me and degraded me is simply your fantasy that you live in where you think that you having a Parkinson's breakdown is somehow degrading to me... (And by the way you should probably go back on your pills to stop that happening again, I see that you couldn't help yourself filling up a whole line full of 'Golly Gosh')

https://imgflip.com...

After three rounds now, you still haven't given your opinion of why you have faith that Jesus has not risen from the dead, nor given a reason or anything. The closest you ever came was when... actually, I can't think of when. All you have done is tried to steer the conversation away from the original point and into the area where you think you are stronger (Where you believe that Jesus wasn't the Messiah). And even then, you still aren't strong in those areas, because you obviously doubt Jesus' existence, which is something that anyone with any sort of intelligence (Even Richard Dawkins) will understand if they look at the facts. But you simply do not.

Once again I have run the calculations and I can conclude that 0% of YOUR 'debate' was actually done by you.

I think that a better use of your time than going to this website and writing meaningless arguments is to spend your time finding God and seeking out forgiveness and salvation of your sins from Jesus Christ, and ultimately spend more time with your wife and children. Oh, wait, you are probably void of either of those things.

Now, I believe it is time for me to wrap up this debate. Thank You Backwardseden for providing an argument. Not a very good one, nor is it even YOUR argument, but at least there is an argument. And as for me, I have not felt insulted, destroyed or degraded by your intelligence, but quite the opposite. I have been uplifted. Now, in your final debate, I am going to support you because I am a loving guy, as Jesus wants me to be. Here is my advice: Take your medication so that you don't have any more Parkinson's outbreaks, stick to the argument, and explain to everyone why in the tomato spill (as a wise man also once said) you have the faith that Jesus did not rise from the dead.

All this time you have been commenting on my intelligence, but you're so insecure you don't even wish to say what level of education you have completed, whereas I, accept the fact that I have not gone through my full education, due to the fact that I am only 16 years of age.
To all those out there reading this debate and wondering who to vote for in this debate, think about who used the most reliable sources (Me: with just about any historical source you could name + The Holy Bible, where most evidence should come from when talking about this subject. Or Backwardseden: with 'TheAtheistExperience', a completely biased show hosted by a few virgins who have never even seen a woman in their life. That's how virgin they are.)

Backwardseden's Rules Rewritten: dsjpk5 WILL be allowed to vote in the voting process. You cannot censor someone just because you know that they will have a different opinion.

In conclusion, I believe that Jesus did rise from the dead as shown in my round 2 arguments and that Jesus was the Messiah, as shown in my round 3 and round 5 arguments. It is completely illogical to go against the facts and proclaim that Jesus didn't exist, therefore it is my job to destroy you, insult you and degrade you. You're a complete spogglepop if you believe that he didn't exist. A shnoodlebapper. A Degrisendher. A Madboyrazzer. The list goes on. Anyone can make up words mate, you aren't special. Actually, scrap that, you are very special.

P.S. Notice how I haven't linked to any videos throughout the entire debate. That's because I don't need Arron Ra to help me in a debate. Next time, make up your own mind on what is real and what is not.

May God watch over you and give you peace.

#VoteJoel

[1] - http://www.livius.org...
[2] - http://www.livius.org...
[3] - http://www.earlychristianwritings.com...
[4] - https://www.britannica.com...
[5] - https://en.wikipedia.org...
backwardseden

Con

So my opponent wishes to begin with his yodeling grunge country opera of that his christ ever existed. But can he actually prove it with 100% certainty? Nope. Not with his horse hair feather duster stuck under his brain.

If you have ever studied history, especially the past, you cannot 100% prove that jesus -ever- existed. And you 100% cannot in any way, which is such a joke unto itself prove that jesus rose from the dead. I mean that’s completely laughable.

https://www.atheists.org... - Did jesus Exist

https://www.washingtonpost.com... - Did historical Jesus really exist? The evidence just doesn't add up. (oh and oh yeah Washington POst knows better, far better than you)

https://en.wikipedia.org... - christ myth theory

https://www.richarddawkins.net... - Did historical Jesus really exist? The evidence just doesn’t add up.

Sorry you lost that one that jesus was the messiah. Tee hee.

As stated the NIV is an abomination for a translation for a bible so it cannot be used. And as stated your god would not use text as a source of communication, the worst form of communication possible. But on and on you go with your arrogance and stupidity. So tell you what I am going to do… I am going to completely ignore ALL of the translations YOU use until you manage to get it right, IF you manage to get it right.

As stated there is nowhere in your bible where your god gives power to your jesus for him to be the messiah. So until that happens, AND until you prove that this jesus even ever existed in which you cannot possibly do as easily proved with the links above because they are common sense, logical, rationalizing, reasoning, thinking, unlike you, your god, religion and bible, then he IS NOT the messiah and most certainly there’s 0% proof he rose from the dead.

Now have a lot of fun with this video because in reality there’s really no such a thing as being a true christian. You are not. That’s for sure.

- Why does every intelligent christian disobey jesus?

Here’s some quotes from your lovely jesus proving that YOU do not follow him, nor does an-yo-ne because of how impossible fr what this jesus is asking. Are YOU and everyone going to give up YOUR families to follow this so called jesus that you cannot even prove exists? Are you going to give up ALL of YOUR possessions to follow this jesus that you cannot even prove exists? Well if you do, then you’d be classified as being both crazy and insane. Oh and btw, don’t you f--king dare state that in any way that I am taking these verses out of context because then you would be required to prove it. With your lack of ability to interpret YOUR bible correctly, you would not be able to.

Matthew 10: 35-37 “For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”

Luke 12 51-53 “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: 52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. 53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.”

Matthew 19: 28-29 “28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.”

Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
-----------------------

Luke 14:33 “So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”

Luke 18:22 “Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.”

Matthew 19:21 “21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.”

Matthew 13: 22 “22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.”

Luke 21: 27-32 “27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. 29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.” failed prophecy never happened true fatal flaw

Matthew 24: 33-35 “32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.” Well they have passed away to billions.

Converting...
Isaiah 45 21:23 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Then how come billions DON’T “every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”?

“Your claim that my whole argument is invalid due to the fact that I use different translations”. Not only that, but you simply don’t know what you are squawking about as you have to flatly invent excuses rather than saying “i don’t know”. AND YOU DON’T KNOW. You don’t have the foggiest clue. You guess. And---you---know---it.

Now let me explain in full detail… If someone were to present you with a Swahili version of your bible would you be able to understand it? No. You would not. So don’t come at me or anyone that the NIV version is readable. The NIV version is a translation that has been translated again and again into who knows what, you don’t, nobody does you imp, form what nobody knows from the original so YOU most certainly have no idea of what YOU are reading is correct AT ALL. So its YOU that is flatly inventing excuses to get out of the absolute clutter that is your bible from in which YOU nor anyone can interpret correctly especially from an abomination such as the NIV version. YOU are a total joke. Since you had to invent that excuse, this debate is now over. You have absolutely nothing of value to say to help your cause. Bye.
Debate Round No. 5
50 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WOLF.J 6 days ago
WOLF.J
bet he didn't read it...
Posted by backwardseden 3 weeks ago
backwardseden
@kwagga_la - Didn't read it. All you want to do is p**s people off because your intelligence ratio is so ignorant and stupid as you literally have to invent excuses to make your ideals stand out in which NOBODY of merit will agree with that has thus far been discussed. Bye.
Posted by backwardseden 3 weeks ago
backwardseden
@kwagga_la - Didn't read it. All you want to do is p**s people off because your intelligence ratio is so ignorant and stupid as you literally have to invent excuses to make your ideals stand out in which NOBODY of merit will agree with that has thus far been discussed. Bye.
Posted by JoelNuge 3 weeks ago
JoelNuge
'OK, we BOTH know that YOUR god DOES NOT EXIST because there is no proof that he does.'

Ye because that's how logic works, right?

No
Posted by kwagga_la 3 weeks ago
kwagga_la
@backwardseden You do realize that you replied in spite of saying you will not right? You obviously miss the point about Egypt, and it seems I touched a nerve there, although I did not mean to imply anything by it. I tried to be kind by saying incorrect and illogical instead of stupid etc. or that you are an unpolished shoe, or that you are a pair of sunglasses with dirty lenses (the last two insults should be relative to your level of understanding i presume). I feel obliged to reply because you did call me friend on a previous occasion in one of your posts after all. Friends try to help each other right? I think text is only the worst kind of communication for you. It is clear you do not understand what you read in the Bible and fail to answer my questions and those of other Debaters on this site. For the rest of us text as a form of communication is working quite well. We are actually able to understand each other. Looking at some of the insults other Debaters lashed at you like: stupid or hater etc., I must admit that i understand exactly what they said. Why do you even bother debating here if text is the worst form of communication? But then again, that is another backwardseden paradox that only you will understand. Ok my friend, until next time, enjoy your day (and remember to keep your promises!).
Posted by backwardseden 3 weeks ago
backwardseden
Sorry your god ensues slavery as proved by the first video, in which you point blank obvious did not watch any of them = typical christian, with TONS of verses as well as the other videos which is not disputed by any atheist or any totally stupid christian who happens to be a lot more intelligent than you. See? As stated you cannot even pay attention to your god even when he speaketh his wordseth righteth from his a$$ and you STILL manageth to make excuses. Now look up the verses it presents you f--king a$$hole. You are a total insult to anyone's intelligence. But nah, like I said, you are totally devoid of taking YOUR GOD at his word. And DON'T GET BACK TO ME ON IT because as usual you have no arguments from your own brothel of pimping p**s. You are so brainwashed by your own self righteous ego, oh gee just like your god, who in which in no possible way can you even prove even exists, has YOUR same bloated ego, in which absolutely nobody who knows the bible will ever agree with you, but then again your god would never use text as a source of communication, the worst form of communication possible. Oh and btw, you can't ---ever--- reason with me because I am far too intelligent and educated for you and I know a lot more about god, religion and your bible than you ---ever--- will. I am so done with a true bubonic plague like you. And this time I promise because I only communicate with those that are intelligent, educated AND TO NOT INVENT EXCUSES to save their sorry skin rather than saying "I don't know" and wow do you especially not know among the many I've debated here. I cannot have any pity for you, someone who clearly has no genuine friends or loved ones, someone who doesn't do any type of research AT ALL to get any type of true background into any other type of thinking and is truly trapped within his own little box and has absolutely no possible way of escaping and finding new and different things of pleasure. Btw I always keep my promises. Bye.
Posted by kwagga_la 3 weeks ago
kwagga_la
@backwardseden I obviously care about slavery before Egypt because slavery was instituted by man and not God as you claimed. It proves you made an incorrect claim. If you infer that a believe in God is what cause suffering then you are wrong again. You believe in evolution, if i am not mistaken, which means there was a time when there were no humans around but in spite of that the animals also suffered without any one believing in God. It proves there was suffering without believe. Your assertion is totally illogical.

The book of Isiah contains many of the prophecies regarding Christ. They found a copy nearly exactly the same that predated the previous oldest copy available by a 1000 years. It shows that the text was not tampered with and the prophecies was recorded before Christ came to earth. the events was found to correspond with what the OT predicted regarding Christ. The events of the Crucifixion and resurrection is well document by the Church Fathers (among others) that correspond with the OT. Someone did not write the NT to pretend the OT prophecies occurred. Moving on, the OT predicted things that happened within the last 100 hundred years which cannot be as an result of someone looking at the OT and then writing the same in the NT.

One last question, how come you write on your profile: About Me:Waltz upon the edge of creation and drink the dreams of clouds...

Creation?
Posted by backwardseden 3 weeks ago
backwardseden
@kwagga_la - I don't pay attention to you. Got it? You pay attention to me. Got it? Sheesh. The reason?
You are unreasonable and cannot be reasoned with no matter what even when god and jesus actually put right to you their very own words unto you you manage to come up with your own reasoning and meanings. wHO THE F--K CARES ABOUT SLAVERY BEFORE EGYPT. ITS STILL COMPLETELY IMMORAL AND BANKRUPT YOU DISTILLED IMMORAL CREATURE AS YOU TRY TO IN YOUR FRAIL MIND TRY TO JUSTIFY IT IN WHICH THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION. Now pay attention...
- Is Slavery in the bible?
Slavery is all over your fricken bible. EX 21. ESPECIALLY 20-21. And your god absolutely does NOTHING throughout YOUR bible to curtail it in any way and neither does YOUR christ.
- Why Does God Support Slavery? - The Atheist Experience #605
- Matt Dillahunty Destroys Theist Over Slavery
- Biblical Slavery

The Dead Sea Scrolls most certainly in no way do not prove missmedic wrong at all. Sorry. Not one prophecy has ever come true. Not one. Not one miracle has ever been proved. Your god has not been proved either. The great flood never happened, there's no proof that the great tribes of Israel roaming the vast deserts ever happened etc etc etc. And you think YOU should be payed attention to?

OK we BOTH know that YOUR god DOES NOT EXIST because there is no proof that he does. Are you with me thus far? Does that jell in your scalp of a tepid atomizer completely unable to comprehend anything outside of himself and reality and what grocery shopping is, so this will be my final post to you, because once again you have no friends or loved ones a HUGE red flag... and since YOUR god does not exist, it is the mere BELIEF IN HIM THAT CAUSES ALL THIS HATE, PAIN, SUFFERING, ETC. especially this jesus the most fought after figure in history. By
Posted by kwagga_la 3 weeks ago
kwagga_la
@backwardseden I asked you to give a verse for God instituting slavery before Egypt - your answer: Nothing. I ask why the children still suffer if God does not exist - your answer: nothing. As for Missmedic's assertion, the dead sea scrolls prove him wrong as well as the examples that i gave. Why don't you try fixing the loopholes in your own reasoning?
Posted by backwardseden 3 weeks ago
backwardseden
Then you mention "faith" and if this doesn't strike a lightning bolt in that small brain of yours, nothing will because you do not have anything that is tangible and you believe in utter gullibility and that's sheer stupidity and nothing but.

"Why would you believe anything on faith? Faith isn"t a pathway to truth. Every religion has some sort of faith. If faith is your pathway you can"t distinguish between christianity, Hinduism, judaism, any of these others. How is it that you use ---reason--- in every of the other endeavor in your life and then when it comes to the ultimate truth, the most important truth your"re saying that faith is required and how is that supposed to reflect on a god? What kind of a god requires faith instead of evidence?" Matt Dillahunty

"Faith is the reason people give when they don"t have evidence." Matt Dillahunty

"Faith can be very very dangerous, and deliberately to implant it into the vulnerable mind of an innocent child is a grievous wrong." Richard Dawkins

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is the belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins

And missmedic previously stated and he's right... I suspect the writers of the new testament, may have read the old testament before they began writing the prophecies. Historically prophecies have never accurately predicted an event, the event is described as a prophecy after the fact. Simply put, the bible does not meet the criteria for a credible source. To do that you need to know, who wrote the gospels, when they wrote them, what was their objective in writing them, what sources the authors used, how reliable these sources were, and how far removed in time the sources were from the stories they narrate, or if they were altered later.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 3 weeks ago
dsjpk5
JoelNugebackwardsedenTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Since the instigator never accepted the contender' s proposed rule (in fact he specifically refused to accept it in round five), I can only presume I am not banned from voting. So... Con called Pro a "total joke" in round five. This is poor conduct.