The Instigator
nadlor1
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
WriterSelbe
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

Jesus didn't change the sabbath to sunday

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
nadlor1
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/20/2011 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,928 times Debate No: 19986
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (3)

 

nadlor1

Pro

Jesus didn't change the sabbath in the bible.He actually worshiped on that say.So did the disciples.There is no evidence to where the bible said to worship on Sunday.It does not say to remember the first day but the seventh-day.It say clearly in the old testament to "REMEMBER" the sabbath day.god knew we would forget so that is why he put remember.The sabbath day is part of the 10 commandments not Jewish law.
WriterSelbe

Con

I assume the first round is for acceptance at the moment. I await the next round to see my opponents separated and clear contentions.
Debate Round No. 1
nadlor1

Pro

Well what's your argument?i presume you have nothing to debate about
WriterSelbe

Con

Seeing as we are using the Bible as our source here, I will commence my argument. First, I will attack my opponent's arguments.

Jesus didn't change the sabbath in the bible.He actually worshiped on that say.

Yes, Jesus did worship on that day. The Ten Commandments (http://amightywind.com...) specifically state to keep holy the Sabbath Day, and in that context in which Jesus and Moses expressed the Sabbath Day was the seventh day, Sunday. Seeing as Jesus and the Bible refer to the Sabbath as Sunday, Jesus did indeed change the Sabbath to Sunday. Also, because the Ten Commandments state to keep holy the Sabbath Day, worshiping on the Sabbath is permissible with the intent to 'keep holy' the Sabbath.

There is no evidence to where the bible said to worship on Sunday.

The Bible states to keep holy the Sabbath day. The Bible states the Sabbath day is now Sunday. Therefore, by worshiping on Sunday, the Sabbath day is kept holy.

It does not say to remember the first day but the seventh-day.

The seventh day of the week was ordained as the Sabbath at Creation by God's very own example (Genesis 2:2,3; Exodus 20:11). The nation of Israel was instructed to keep it and chided for not doing so- even before the Law was given on Mount Sinai (Exodus 16:23-30). The Fourth Commandment, which specifies the seventh day as the Sabbath, was so important that God chose to place it at the very heart of the Ten Commandments; it is intimately associated with nine other moral precepts- which were given by the voice and finger of Yahweh Himself and which are appropriate for all humans throughout all generations (Exodus 20:8-11). (http://www.biblestudy.org...)

It does state that the Sabbath is the seventh day, and it says to remember the Sabbath.

It say clearly in the old testament to "REMEMBER" the sabbath day.god knew we would forget so that is why he put remember.The sabbath day is part of the 10 commandments not Jewish law.

I do not understand the relevance of this argument and how it relates to the resolution.
Debate Round No. 2
nadlor1

Pro

My opponent has made a incorrect statement.

"Jesus and Moses expressed the Sabbath Day was the seventh day, Sunday"
First of all,the seventh day in the Jewish calender was today's Saturday.And as I said before the sabbath was made on the seventh-day. Now that doesn't conclude that Sabbath is a Jewish day.Because before the Hebrew nation God had set the sabbath when he had made creation.And also the ten commandments say that to Remember the sabbath and keep it holy.You should do no work nor your neighbors nor maidservants.Exodus 20:11

Second,Jesus had died on Good Friday and rested on Sat. then the next morning known as Easter Sunday he had risen.

Another thing is if Jesus had changed it where does it say?
The fact is there is not even one verse that says,The Sabbath is abolished or is now Sunday The Ten Commandments are the only thing that God personally spoke in such inconceivable fiery majesty, thundering His voice from the mountain top while everyone trembled in fear below, and then personally etched this magnificent law into stone tablets with His own finger. Yet there is not one clear scripture! Just a couple of erroneous assumptions. One of God's Commandments supposedly changes or is abolished and we do not have even one clear verse. Why not? The answer is simple. It was never abolished or changed to Sunday by the authority of God so no such scripture exists. It was changed to Sunday by Satan through idolatrous sun worship, hence the name SUN-day. Sunday - Dies solis (Latin) which means day of the sun from which we get Sunday. The English names for the days of the week are pagan names. In over 100 other languages around the world, Saturday is still called the Sabbath just as God named it at creation. This can be dated as far back as Babel in Genesis 11 where Saturday was recognized as the Sabbath day and was incorporated into the very name of the day. (http://www.the-ten-commandments.org...)

Also,the Catholic church had adopted paganism and had made the sabbath Sunday because modern Christians despised the Jews.

Constantine pressed his pagan hordes into the church they were observing the day of the sun for their adoration of the sun god. It was their special holy day. In order to make it more convenient for them to make the change to the new religion, Constantine accepted their day of worship, Sunday, instead of the Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples. Remember that the way had been prepared for this already by the increasing anti-Jewish feelings against those who were accused of putting Jesus to death. Those feelings would naturally condition many Christians to swing away from something which was held religiously by the Jews. It is therefore easier to understand how the change was imposed on Christianity through a strong civil law issued by Constantine as the Emperor of Rome (http://www.sabbathtruth.com...)

Another thing is if Jesus changed the sabbath then show a verse.
My opponent has said Sunday is sabbath but Jews still worship the same day today.
thats Saturday.So if people worshiped on Sundays,they are not worshiping God.

THe catholic church has said various times that they had changed the sabbath.

First, from the Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine by Reverend Peter Giermann. "Question: Which is the Sabbath day? Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day. Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church in the Council of Laodicea transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
Second, from Reverend Steven Keenan's Doctrinal Catechism we read this: "Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day; a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
http://www.sabbathtruth.com...

So I ask my opponent if The bible clearly made a change.
If so where?

Jesus says: "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17. God says: "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." Psalms 89:34. Notice, the Ten Commandments came from His lips. Exodus 20:1 says, "And God spake all these words, saying ... [the Ten Commandments follow in verses 2-17]."

The change was spoken in the bible too way before it happen.
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25

As stated "to change times and Laws"

what happen the sabbath was changed.One of the commandments was changed.So i conclude that the sabbath was changed.
WriterSelbe

Con

"Jesus and Moses expressed the Sabbath Day was the seventh day, Sunday"
First of all,the seventh day in the Jewish calender was today's Saturday.And as I said before the sabbath was made on the seventh-day. Now that doesn't conclude that Sabbath is a Jewish day.Because before the Hebrew nation God had set the sabbath when he had made creation.And also the ten commandments say that to Remember the sabbath and keep it holy.You should do no work nor your neighbors nor maidservants.Exodus 20:11

Regarding this point, since we are using the Bible as our source, in the Old Testament, the Sabbath was bound to Saturday. However, in the Bible, when Jesus died on the cross he freed us of our bindings to the law of the Old Testament, so the law that stated the Sabbath is on Saturday is not canon anymore. As my opponent admits to Jesus's death on the cross thus admitting the dogma that stated in Scripture we were freed from our bindings to the Old Testament, my opponent concedes to this point. So, the Sabbath was indeed changed to Sunday. (http://www.gotquestions.org...) Because historically the day 'kept holy' and worshiped on was Sunday for Christians, the Sabbath was indeed made Sunday. A mandate by Constantine in 321 A.D. supports this as well.

Second,Jesus had died on Good Friday and rested on Sat. then the next morning known as Easter Sunday he had risen.

The day Jesus was in the tomb I have not seen designated as a day of rest. Also, the Sunday he rose from the dead was the day kept holy, the holy day, thus it was the Sabbath.

Another thing is if Jesus had changed it where does it say?
The fact is there is not even one verse that says,The Sabbath is abolished or is now Sunday The Ten Commandments are the only thing that God personally spoke in such inconceivable fiery majesty, thundering His voice from the mountain top while everyone trembled in fear below, and then personally etched this magnificent law into stone tablets with His own finger. Yet there is not one clear scripture! Just a couple of erroneous assumptions. One of God's Commandments supposedly changes or is abolished and we do not have even one clear verse. Why not? The answer is simple. It was never abolished or changed to Sunday by the authority of God so no such scripture exists. It was changed to Sunday by Satan through idolatrous sun worship, hence the name SUN-day. Sunday - Dies solis (Latin) which means day of the sun from which we get Sunday. The English names for the days of the week are pagan names. In over 100 other languages around the world, Saturday is still called the Sabbath just as God named it at creation. This can be dated as far back as Babel in Genesis 11 where Saturday was recognized as the Sabbath day and was incorporated into the very name of the day. (http://www.the-ten-commandments.org......)

Jesus dying on the cross abolished the rule that the Sabbath was Saturday with the rest of the Old Testament, thus changing it to the now generally accepted Sunday.

Also,the Catholic church had adopted paganism and had made the sabbath Sunday because modern Christians despised the Jews.

If one were to assume this true, then that would only mean that through Christ, the power of the Holy Spirit, and their faith--thus through Jesus--the Sabbath was changed to Sunday after Jesus abolished the binding of us to Saturday when he died on the cross.

Constantine pressed his pagan hordes into the church they were observing the day of the sun for their adoration of the sun god. It was their special holy day. In order to make it more convenient for them to make the change to the new religion, Constantine accepted their day of worship, Sunday, instead of the Christian Sabbath which had been observed by Jesus and His disciples. Remember that the way had been prepared for this already by the increasing anti-Jewish feelings against those who were accused of putting Jesus to death. Those feelings would naturally condition many Christians to swing away from something which was held religiously by the Jews. It is therefore easier to understand how the change was imposed on Christianity through a strong civil law issued by Constantine as the Emperor of Rome (http://www.sabbathtruth.com......)

My evidence says that Constantine changed the religion to Christianity and supported worshiping on Sunday. Seeing as our evidence conflicts, both points are now void until further research.

Another thing is if Jesus changed the sabbath then show a verse.
My opponent has said Sunday is sabbath but Jews still worship the same day today.
thats Saturday.So if people worshiped on Sundays,they are not worshiping God.

Again, Jesus abolished the Jewish law in Old Testament that stated that one must worship on Saturday as the Sabbath when he died on the cross as stated in my evidence above. Jewish people may choose to worship on Saturday, however, the new Sabbath is Sunday because Jesus abolished the law when he died and the pope made the new Sabbath Sunday, and the pope has the grace of infallibility within the Church, thus his law is the law of Christ. (http://en.wikipedia.org...)

THe catholic church has said various times that they had changed the sabbath.

Yes, the pope works through Jesus and has papal infallibility, thus every dogma he supports and provides is endorsed and comes from Christ.

So I ask my opponent if The bible clearly made a change.
If so where?

The evidence my opponent provides prior to this question proves me correct. Seeing the Bible as our evidence, then papal infallibility is justified, thus meaning that all decisions made by the pope and Church are endorsed and justified by God, hence the changing of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday is indeed correct and an action through Christ.

Jesus says: "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail." Luke 16:17. God says: "My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips." Psalms 89:34. Notice, the Ten Commandments came from His lips. Exodus 20:1 says, "And God spake all these words, saying ... [the Ten Commandments follow in verses 2-17]."

The change was spoken in the bible too way before it happen.
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25

As stated "to change times and Laws"

what happen the sabbath was changed.One of the commandments was changed.So i conclude that the sabbath was changed.

All of the verses and evidence provided prior the bolded quote supports and concedes to the fact that Jesus indeed changed the Sabbath. Thus, I thank my opponent for this engaging debate and urge voters to vote in favor of the negative.

Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by daley 2 years ago
daley
This is a great examination of this issue: http://www.amazon.com...
Posted by daley 2 years ago
daley
This is a great examination of this issue: http://www.amazon.com...
Posted by WriterSelbe 5 years ago
WriterSelbe
It's fine. I was confused for a bit. It's all good now.
Posted by nadlor1 5 years ago
nadlor1
I think we are??
Posted by Wandile 5 years ago
Wandile
Umm.... WriterSelbe FYI the Sabbath is a Saturday.
I'm Catholic and worship on a Sunday but the bible teaches the Sabbath is Saturday.

That's all I have to say. This debate will be very interesting.
Posted by WriterSelbe 5 years ago
WriterSelbe
Are we debating the same thing here?
Posted by nadlor1 5 years ago
nadlor1
sorry i was kinda vague on the topic.
Posted by WriterSelbe 5 years ago
WriterSelbe
I was waiting for you to re-outline your arguments because you weren't very clear. I won't waste the second round, though, so I'll attack what I can pick out.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Stephen_Hawkins 5 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
nadlor1WriterSelbeTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Writer didn't put up much of a fight until the very end, which is poor conduct.
Vote Placed by logicrules 5 years ago
logicrules
nadlor1WriterSelbeTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con just made stuff up. First he cites Moses and the sevnth day as Sunday, then claims the bible is the NT.
Vote Placed by Greyparrot 5 years ago
Greyparrot
nadlor1WriterSelbeTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: I think pro is a little bitter about Jesus.