The Instigator
radz
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
tahir.imanov
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Jesus is God not an Angel

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
radz
Started: 10/1/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 384 times Debate No: 38332
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (3)

 

radz

Pro

Jesus is God (in a Trinitarian sense) and not an Angel ( in a Jehovah's witnesses theology).

Proof that Jesus is God:

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of the light and the exact imprint of God's nature.

Jesus has God's nature. He is equal to God in nature because he is the Son of God ( John 5:18).

Jesus is not an ethereal creature but God himself.
tahir.imanov

Con

Jeus is neither god, nor angel. If you say Jesus god or angle, then you are making an assumption and you have to prove it, using facts and evidences. When we are (rational people) talk about facts and evidences, people who say Jesus is god bring Bible as evidence, and they say it is "The Evidence", and reason for It being evidence is, Bible is the word of God. When you ask proof for Bible being the Word of God, they say it is revelation, and it goes on, circlular reasoning.

Just for sake of argument, let's assume, Bible is word of God. Does it say Jesus is God or man or an angel?!
First of all, whatever you say about Jesus, He never said, "I am God" or "Worship me" or "Pray upon me". He always said, The Father is one true God, Worship Him and Pray upon Him.
In fact he, says his knowledge is limited, power is given to him, by God. However God is All-Knowing and God is All-Powerfull. Nobody gives to God knowledge or power.
Bible never says Jesus is angel.

"Son of God"
If you read whole Bible, you will be suprised how many sons does God have. Even in Psalms, jewish peole are addresed to be gods. THese are all methaphores if you had littlebit knowledge about semitic languages, you will come to know, these verses cannot be taken literally.

As Stargate TV Series are scince-fiction, Jesus being God is faith-fiction, based on fictituous ideas.
Debate Round No. 1
radz

Pro

I totally agree that Jesus never said these things:

1) I am God
2) Worship me
3)Pray to me

But the Bible is pretty clear that Jesus made those claims not in a proud way but in a humble way. God is perfect. God exemplifies the virtue of humility. God is the perfect model of humility.

Jesus is neither like Satan nor like Adam who both exerted selfishness, arrogance to and desire of godhood. Jesus shows what God is because he's equal to God in nature. Satan and Adam ,desirious of godship, will never in the first place could be God for their nature shows that they differs from the divine nature.


1) JESUS SAID" I AM YHWH"

Jesus said " Before Abraham came into existence, I am in existence. " - John 8:58, Exodues 3:14 LXX

* Note that Jesus didn't say the whole phrase " ego eimi ho on" for a vey obvious reason that it's highly implied in the context per se Johannine text. The Greek word" egeneto" clearly shows contrast to Christ's claim of existence, that before Abraham became existing he is already in existence. [ compare: into existence ( Abraham) =/= in existence ( Christ) ].

2) THE SON HAS THE SAME HONOR AS THE FATHER

Jesus said"that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him" ( John 5:23).

In fact, the Son is not only equal to the Father in honor. The Son is also equal to the Father in praise, glory and ruling power:

Revelation 5:13-14Then I heard every creature – in heaven, on earth, under the earth, in the sea, and all that is in them – singing: “To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb be praise, honor, glory, and ruling power forever and ever!”And the four living creatures were saying “Amen,” and the elders threw themselves to the ground and worshiped.

3) JESUS ENCOURAGE HIS PEOPLE TO PRAY UPON HIM AND HE ALSO PROMISED THAT HE WILL ANSWER IT!

Jesus said "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." ( John 14:14)*

*MSS evidence:P66, P75 , Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus

In this verse, Jesus commanded us to pray to him and that he'll be the one to answer it.

In fact, we have lots of New Testament evidences that the early Christians prays to Christ:1 Corinthians 1:2, 16:22,Epheisans 5:19,Acts 1:24, 8:22,24,Rev 22:20, 2 Cor 12:7-9, Acts 7:54-60, 1 Tim 1:12 ( check out this verses and be shocked).

ON THE OMNISCIENCE OF CHRIST

Jesus knowsall things. There's nothing hidden to him. He knows everything but this is his trait per se which he has control with. He has volition to not use his omniscience. In other words, he can choose to not use his ability to know all things and this is what happened in the incarnation.He concealed his knowledge via his flesh. Jesus assumed human nature and human nature includes human body and human spirit. Jesus' divine mind is inevitably and literally concealed so that he doesn't know even his return unless he was given authority (i.e. permission) to use that omniscience he has.

Again, to put it in simpler terms,ability is different from authority because in Christ, he the the ability, as God, to know the time of his return but on the otherhand, he , the Son per se, has either the authority from his Father to use it or otherwise he can't use it.

The fact that Jesus can't use his omniscience at Mark 13:32 because of lack of authority or permission to do so, doesn't prove that he is not omniscient as God but only proves further that he is the Son in his intrinsic function, of same nature with the Father.

I disagree that Jesus was given "power" by God. Jesus was only given " authority".

ON THE SONSHIP OF CHRIST

Do not be confuse, Jesus is God in nature BECAUSE he is the Son of the Father. Jesus' sonship is th reason why he is God in nature. ( see Proverbs 8:22-28, Hebrews 1:3 and 1 Corinthians 1:24 it teaches here that Jesus in his prehuman state is the eternally begotten Son by an eternal begetter which is the Father)

This is the Trinity Doctrine:

The three persons: The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit are the only true God.

The Father is the only True God ( John 17:3).
The Son is the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the second person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom, as Father and Son.If the Son is not the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father then it means that the Son is a second God ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX, John 1:18).
The Holy Spirit is the Life of the Father and the Son that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the third person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person and second personby virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom and Spirit, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit.If theHoly Spirit is not the Life of the Father and the Son then it means that the Son is a third God ( Matthew 28:19).

The Three Persons are the only true God by virtue of their relationship to each other.
tahir.imanov

Con

My recommendations for opponent, read Bible, little knowledge about Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic.

Humility cannot be attribute of God, if it is then it is hypocrisy. Adam never was a selfish, read the Bible. Adam did not sin when he ate the fruit. Proof: The 5-year old kid steals money. Is it sin. Answer is no, because he does not have the knowledge what is bad or good, what is sin what ii not sin. So, before Adam ate fruit, he did not have necessary knowledge, of good and bad (5-year-old kid example) so he cannot be held responsible for something that he does not no. If you are going to say He did not obey God, so 5-year-old kid also did not obey God.

Jesus never said I am YHWH, read the Bible. The sentences from two different languages can be similar, but in the context of that languages they mean two different things, And you cannot compare Greek, which is too poor language in comparison to Semitic languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic).

I say, "Before Abraham was, I am," and I can prove it using very simple logic, Are you going to worship me, if I prove it, if not, why then you are worshiping Jesus.

God has tons of sons in the bible, Are they all Gods? For God sake, Jews are called gods in the Bible, Why you do not worship Jews also?

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" MAT 7:21-23

Jesus does not know all, in act He does not know the Time of HOUR.

The is no indication of trinity in the Bible.
Debate Round No. 2
radz

Pro

My opponent gave an advice, saying that I should read the Bible and accused me of having little knowledge about its languages involved in its writing. This per se is absurd for as I myself I am a Christian, having suffice knowledge of my own faith both in practice and in defense of it (i.e. apologetics).

My opponent also tries to define God in his own way. He says that “Humility cannot be attribute of God” and this is a mere opinion not even found in the Bible. Everything good has its origin to God. Humility is a trait that is good. Hence, God has humility per se.

Who is like the Lord our God, Who is enthroned on high, Who humbles Himself to behold the things in heaven and on earth? - Psalm 113:5-6

Adam was selfish. Selfish means “Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.” This adjective perfectly fits Adam’s behavior.He didn't thought God,neither did he thought about his wife nor his offspring. He ate the fruit not of innocence but of willing transgression against the Law of God in Genesis 2:17.

My opponent’s analogy fails in one main point:

1) Lack of Scriptural context- the child whom my opponent is talking about must have been in the context of scriptural data. Hence, this child must have been infected with the original sin for without this condition of spiritual death this 5 year old kid can’t do stealing. (Romans 5:12-14).

My opponent wrote that “Greek is too poor language in comparison to Semitic languages”. If he’s right then why did the New Testament writers use it?

I say, "Before Abraham was, I am," and I can prove it using very simple logic, Are you going to worship me, if I prove it, if not, why then you are worshiping Jesus.

Jesus proved that he’s worthy of worship by always claiming to be God’s Son. In fact, all creation worships Jesus in Revelation 5:13-14.

God has tons of sons in the bible, Are they all Gods? For God sake, Jews are called gods in the Bible, Why you do not worship Jews also?

I agree that God has many sons but Jesus is the only Son who is begotten by him before creation ( Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX, John 1:3,14,18, 1 Cor. 1:24-25, Hebrews 1:3). I don’t worship the Jews because they are not equal to God in nature. Jesus is equal to God in nature that is why I worship him. Plus, Jesus claimed to be YHWH himself. The Jews you’re talking about never did that.

Jesus does not know all, in act He does not know the Time of HOUR.

Jesus knows all things. There's nothing hidden to him. He knows everything but this is his trait per se which he has control with. He has volition to not use his omniscience. In other words, he can choose to not use his ability to know all things and this is what happened in the incarnation. He concealed his knowledge via his flesh. Jesus assumed human nature and human nature includes human body and human spirit. Jesus' divine mind is inevitably and literally concealed so that he doesn't know even his return unless he was given authority (i.e. permission) to use that omniscience he has ( Philippians 2:6-8). Again, to put it in simpler terms, ABILITY is different from AUTHORITY because in Christ, he the the ability, as God, to know the time of his return but on the other hand, he , the Son per se, has either the authority from his Father to use it or otherwise he can't use it. The fact that Jesus can't use his omniscience at Mark 13:32 because of lack of authority or permission to do so, doesn't prove that he is not omniscient as God but only proves further that he is the Son in his intrinsic function, of same nature with the Father. I disagree that Jesus was given "power" by God. Jesus was only given “authority".

Matthew 7:21-23

Irrelevant verse to use to argue against Jesus' divinity.

The is no indication of trinity in the Bible.

My opponent is not aware about the theology behind the Nicene Creed which is the centre of the Christian faith. I highly recommend for my opponent to read about the Pre-New Testament Wisdom theology of Judaism and Wisdom theology of the New Testament.

The Trinity is clearly in the Bible:

The Father is the only True God ( John 17:3). The Son is the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the second person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom, as Father and Son.If the Son is not the Power and Wisdom, the eternally begotten of the Father then it means that the Son is a second God ( 1 Corinthians 1:24-25, Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX, John 1:18). The Holy Spirit is the Life of the Father and the Son that is why he is also the only true God, that is, the third person who equally shares the title and nature of the first person and second person by virtue of their relationship as God and Wisdom and Spirit, as Father and Son and Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is not the Life of the Father and the Son then it means that the Son is a third God ( Matthew 28:19). The Three Persons are the only true God by virtue of their relationship to each other.
tahir.imanov

Con

Jesus is "begotten" son of God.

The word begotten is not fon in manuscripts, so in new editions of Bible the word "begotten"is used no more. So, Jesus is not begotten Son. If you knew this you would not use the verse. And it proves my point about recommendation.

Jesus is claimed to be, but he never claimed to be. I can say Person X is god, but it will not make him god.

My opponent wrote "The fact that Jesus can't use his omniscience at Mark 13:32 because of lack of authority or permission to do so." God who needs permission to do something, is not God.

And if Jesus says he does not know, but in "fact" he does know, then he is "liar." And it is not first time he lied :
MAT11:11-15 - "I tell you the truth, John the Baptist is greater than any other person ever born, but even the least important person in the kingdom of heaven is greater than John. Since the time John the Baptist came until now, the kingdom of heaven has been going forward in strength, and people have been trying to take it by force. All the prophets and the law of Moses told about what would happen until the time John came. And if you will believe what they said, you will believe that John is Elijah, whom they said would come. Let those with ears use them and listen!"
JOHN1:21 - " They asked him, Then who are you? Are you Elijah?
He said, I am not.
Are you the Prophet?
He answered, No."
So, Jesus lied about John being Elijah.

So God lies also.
Debate Round No. 3
radz

Pro

1)) The 21st century trusted English Bible ( i.e. The NASB - New American Standard Bible and NKJV - New King James Version) still has those "begotten" word to Christ.

They have both historical and linguistic support for its rendering. The theology attached to it is 2000 years old.

The Wisdom Theology of the ancient Jews fits in Christian Sophiology. This proves the authenticity and veracity of the Chistian deity as evidently found in both Old Testament including the Intertestamental period.

2))A Son, who has an ability to do this and that but without authority to use it, doesn't mean that he is not of same nature with his Father.

The fact that he's God's offspring proves that he is equal to God in nature.

3)) Jesus didn't say that Elijah was reincarnated. John denies being Elijah in the flesh. He's only Elijah in function not in person.The New Testament rejects foreigb teachings not peculiar to its distinctive message.
tahir.imanov

Con

All your arguments based on assumptions.
As rational person I deal with facts. When you bring some evidence and facts, I will post my counter arguments.

Debate Round No. 4
radz

Pro

My opponent accuses me of using arguments that are based on assumptions. Well, as my reader could see, I already gave the evidences and facts since the first up to the last round of the debate. Am I to repeat myself?

1)) monogenes denotes " only offspring" as its literal rendering albeit "only one of its sort" also fits lexically. The only fact we need is the context per se wherein this word is found in order to determine which of thw two definitions fits.

2)) Based on the Sapiental books both in the inspired Old Testament and the intertestamental books ( i.e. Wisdom of Solomon, book of Sirach) plus with contemporary Jewish Sophilogy in the frist Century (i.e. Philo), the New Testament expressed all of its Wisdom tenets in its very form albeit personalized the personificiation of the divine trait as divine revelation dictates.

Proverbs 8:22-31 LXX
Psalm 45:1 LXX
Psalm 110:3 LXX
John 1:1
John 1:14
John 1:18
John 3:16
John 5:18
John 5:24
John 5:26
John 8:58
John 10:28-38
John 17:3

All of these verse points to a single fact:

Before creation of the universe and all that is in it, God already has a Son and this Son is his own Wisdom per se. God is eternal Father because he has an eternal offspring. They are not two God's but one because his Son is his own trait of wiseness which denotes their inseparableness to each other. Therefore, the Son is equal to God in nature.

3)) A Son, who has an ability to do this and that but without authority to use it, doesn't mean that he is not of same nature with his Father. This logical stance on Mark 13:35 is based on hermeneutic principles in biblical exegesis and it doesn't in any sense contradicts other scripture and hence, remains acceptable to the Christain faith in all rationality and wisdom. It is evident that it uses anthropomorphism so as to explicate the transcendent deity to us humans. Hence, any arguement against it is automatically null and void for it is utterly logical , rational and scriptural answer per se.

4)) "Jesus didn't say that Elijah was reincarnated. John denies being Elijah in the flesh. He's only Elijah in function not in person.The New Testament rejects foreign teachings not peculiar to its distinctive message."

This is the only logical conclusion we can have based o the totality of the Christian Bible as it presents its norms in its one faith.

To all readers, You may scrutinize this debate so as to judge wisely who's the winner. Thank You!
tahir.imanov

Con

Quoting Bible is also called making assumption. In order Bible to be the fact, you required to show, Bible is accurate. But it is not. Easy to prove :

Genesis 1:3-5 - "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day."
- How in universe, it is possible the existence of day and night, evening and morining without planet travelling around star.

Genesis 1:6-8 - "And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day."
- Above sky there is water. And Sun floating in water.

- Later God created plants before Sun, and how they survived?! (It is rhetoric queston.)

Only possible answer is, god created Sun one day later, so plants can survive a single day without Sun.

It is FACT that Sun existed even before Earth.
So Bible is wrong, wrong, wrong.
So you cannot quote something which is proven to be inaccurate to, as a fact to support your argument. There is a word for it, and it is "FALLACY".





Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tahir.imanov 2 months ago
tahir.imanov
Alteration of day and night. When you observe the sky just before sun rise, you will the yellowish light is round. If Earth was flat it should be seen across the horizon.
Posted by DanielDate 6 months ago
DanielDate
Con in his last argument appealed to popular culture belief that the earth is round and not the center of the universe.

Please factually demonstrate that the earth is not flat; and don't use pictures from NASA because everyone knows they faked the moon-landings.

In advance, try to debunk the scientists at http://www.theflatearthsociety.org... who have offered pretty conclusive evidence that the earth is truly flat and the center of the universe.
Posted by DanielDate 6 months ago
DanielDate
And in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks, one like to the Son of man" And when I had seen him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying: Fear not. I am the First and the Last, and behold I am living forever and ever"" (Apoc. 1)

Some people are unaware that God describes Himself as "the first and the last" in the Old Testament.

"I the Lord, I am the first and the last" (Isaias 41:4).

There are many other passages we could bring up, but the fact that Jesus is God is also proven by what is called "implicit Christology." This means that the manner in which Jesus spoke showed that He is God.

"You have heard that it was said to them of old: Thou shalt not commit adultery. But I say to you, that whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).

Notice that Jesus, commenting on the words and commandment of God Himself in Exodus 20:14, clearly puts His own declaration on the same level: You have heard that God has said, BUT I SAY, says Jesus. This way of speaking shows Jesus is God.

Another interesting passage comes in Galatians.

"Paul, an apostle, not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead"" (Galatians 1:1)

Since Paul did not become an apostle by men or of man, but by Jesus Christ, the obvious implication is that Jesus Christ is not just a man. He is also God.

The fact that Jesus is God and man (one Divine Person with two natures) was held by the earliest fathers of the Church and is a truth which must be held by all who want to be saved and possess the true Faith:

From AD 108, St. Ignatius to the church at Ephesus: by the will of the Father and of Jesus Christ, our God,
Posted by DanielDate 6 months ago
DanielDate
salm 102:25-28

In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.

Hebrews 1:8-10

But about the Son he says,...you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.

So we see that God's attitude is unchanging in the form of the Son and the Father. Which is why it is essential to be Catholic, because only Catholicism upholds the Old Law in it's Fulfilled Way.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1.)

"Thomas answered and said to him: My Lord, and my God" (John 20:28).

"Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am" (John 8:58).

"I am" is the very name that God gave to Himself when He appeared to Moses in the burning bush to indicate that He is the eternal, uncreated supreme being. When Jesus said this of Himself, He was clearly indicating that He is God. This is why the Jews "took up stones" to kill Jesus (John 8:59). The prophecy of Isaias 9:6, which is clearly about Jesus, also proves that Jesus is God:

"For a child is born to us, a son is given to us: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace." (Isaias 9:6)

One of our personal favorites on this point, but which is often overlooked, is Acts 3:15. Referring to how the Jews preferred the murdered Barabbas to Jesus and had Jesus crucified, St. Peter says:

"But the author of life you killed"" (Acts 3:15)

The author of life Jesus is God. Thus, Jesus is God.
Posted by Mr.Moves3 6 months ago
Mr.Moves3
Jesus is God. On the book of Psalms, the gods that are mentioned there were Abraham and others. Because back then God told the men to be like a god, and that's why Sarah calls Abraham "Lord" i was also confused by this. But read the entire book so you know. And whaf i mean by read is also carefully and properly connect certain things. It is very complicated but if you have faith, it will all makes sense.
Posted by gizem 6 months ago
gizem
First of all Jesus is NEITHER GOD NOR ANGEL he is one of the prophets that came here before the last prophet Muhammad ! And the bible is the words of Allah its TRUE but unfortunately people of that time changed some words there put their own ideas ! However QURAN hadn't changed for years and will not change cause Allah wont permit it to happen!
Posted by UmarKhan99 6 months ago
UmarKhan99
Trinity is nowhere to be found in the bible. Jesus never said he was God. Jesus said, "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.'" Mark 12:29. Notice how Jesus said OUR God and not Me, which included him to be under God's creation and Divine Authority, and not someone or an entity that is equal to God. and also notice how he said the Lord is ONE God, not THREE Gods or 3 in 1 or whatever. Also explain why if Jesus was part of God then why did the Jews not believe in this before? I'm sure that if Trinity was true it would be very important and God would have taught it from day one but if we read the Old Testament we find nothing of the sort. Also wouldn't God have revealed trinity to Moses and other Prophets?

""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good"except God alone."" Mark 10:18. If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as God? Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone", Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to God when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of God and/or the trinity was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.

I have much more proof please reply if you want more.
Posted by AnthonyRivera008 6 months ago
AnthonyRivera008
Jesus, please save me from your idiotic, moronic followers who doesn't believe in rationality.
Posted by CRAZ4SWAN 6 months ago
CRAZ4SWAN
reasons that jusus pbuh is not god http://www.answering-christianity.com... :@
Posted by CRAZ4SWAN 6 months ago
CRAZ4SWAN
jesus (pbuh) in not god! he is human like u dudes.. here debates proof from the bible...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
https://www.youtube.com...
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by PiercedPanda 2 months ago
PiercedPanda
radztahir.imanovTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I believe pro had more convincing arguments.
Vote Placed by Artur 3 months ago
Artur
radztahir.imanovTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: it seems PRO interpretes bible in the way which has advantage to him, for example: CON said Jesus was not omnisient according to bible and he showed a proof that: he didnot know the hour of crufixion. PRo replied: Jesus has ability to enable or disable the ability to know everything but where the hell it is mentioned in the bible? if his this abilityis mentioned in the bible I would vote PRO, maybe it was mentioned but it PRO didnt give reference. 2nd exapmle: CON said trinity or team of 3 gods is mentioned in the bible, PRO gave reference which says Father(1st god) is god and PRO gave verse which says SON is god but for the 3rd one or SPIRIT he didnt give verse which says: holy SPIRIT is god, he just interpreted bible to show us as if it means spirit is god. this happened on the 3rd round, last part he said: "Trinity is clearly in the Bible: " yet he failed to show it. I am about toreach character limit, later in comments I will write RFD with review of each round in comments.
Vote Placed by Weiler 6 months ago
Weiler
radztahir.imanovTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Both used the Bible as their sole source. Con, however stated the bible is unreliable, and therefore forfeits the source points.