The Instigator
Dr_Obvious
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
PinValentine
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Jesus is a myth, based on other pagan religions.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Dr_Obvious
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 8/25/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,063 times Debate No: 60908
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (2)

 

Dr_Obvious

Con

Some people claim that Jesus is just a myth, and point out that He is similar to older pagan deities. They claim that He is, in fact, based on them. I disagree.

Pro must accept the burden of proof. Note that this is not about whether or not Jesus actually existed. This debate is strictly about the Biblical Jesus. My contention is that He is unique, in all of history. Pro must show, conclusively, that Jesus is based on other religious writings, and beliefs.

Four rounds.
Round one: acceptance.
Round two: Opening statements.
Round three: Rebuttals. No new arguments.
Round four: Closing arguments. No new arguments, or rebuttals.
PinValentine

Pro

I will accept this debate on behalf of all people who believe Jesus to be unoriginal in all of history.

I will show that Jesus is not only not original in history, religion, and mythology, but that his legend also borrows from other figures, examples, and events in other religions, mythologies, and legends.

I look forward to the opening argument provided by Dr.Obvious. Good luck, sir.
Debate Round No. 1
Dr_Obvious

Con

Thank you for accepting this debate.

Instead of providing a bunch of evidence against this claim, I will merely make a few statements of fact. Most every example of similarity between Jesus and other pagan gods, are mentioned in manuscripts that postdate Christianity. In other words, if you look at the original texts, you will not see many of these claims. Many of them are complete fabrications, without any evidence to support them.

So, whatever pro provides as evidence must come form religious texts that predate Christianity. I'll require references for every claim you make, since you have accepted the BOP. Even then, Old Testament prophecies about the virgin birth and a Savior predate many of the original pagan texts.

As you follow this debate, I want you to keep a few things in mind.

(A) 1) TERMINOLOGY
One thing to look out for when presented with copycat claims is the use of Judeo-Christian terminology. There have been many religions throughout history whose members participated in ritual baths but it was not baptism. Political and religious groups may have celebrated a communal meal but it was not a Eucharist. Followers may consider their god a savior of some sort but they are not called Messiah. Religions may speak of an afterlife but they do not consist of places known as Heaven and Hell. Critics may use such terms to make their connections seem stronger but this is a misuse of terminology as these words are usually of Judeo-Christian origins.

2) TIMING
When presented with comparative evidence, ask yourself:
Did the figure precede the Old Testament Messianic Prophecies? (most do not)
Does the timing of the evidence precede Christianity? (many religious texts and reliefs post-date Christianity)
Does the figure precede the life of Jesus? (figures like Apollonius of Tyana do not)

3) SYMBOLISM
Ask yourself what the symbolism is behind such parallels. Like most religious and political groups of antiquity, a sect might have celebrated a communal meal but it did not hold the same significance of the Christian Eucharist. Members might consider their deity a savior but they did not consider the figure a savior from sin and damnation, etc.

4) SOURCES
Do the claims actually come from the sacred texts of the religion in question (most hardly ever do). Most references simply quote secondary sources by authors of the same ilk. When they do cite a religious source, most critics will not specify the book, volume, or verse number yet they readily quote exactly where the "copy" can be found in the Christian Bible. As I mentioned earlier, I will require these references, or your evidence will be dismissed.

I believe I'll stop here and wait for pro's opening argument. The podium is yours.

(A) http://thedevineevidence.com...
PinValentine

Pro

PinValentine forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Dr_Obvious

Con

Well. It looks like my opponent has decided he doesn't want to play ball. Pity. I was really looking forward to this.
PinValentine

Pro

PinValentine forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Dr_Obvious

Con

Well. I guess we know who the winner is, assuming anyone cares to vote.
PinValentine

Pro

PinValentine forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
I have been preoccupied these last few months and have not been on at all. If possible, I should like to revisit this debate. Let me know.
Posted by Shield 2 years ago
Shield
i see what you said their dr_obvious.... im on to you
Posted by Dr_Obvious 2 years ago
Dr_Obvious
@bladerunner060 That's funny. When I have the burden of proof, I prefer to go last.
Posted by Dr_Obvious 2 years ago
Dr_Obvious
I think not. I just wanted my third debate, so I could vote on other debates. Not really a big debater. I do excel at trolling, though. Don't tell anyone I said that.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
Very true. If you are up to it, you may begin a new one.
Posted by Dr_Obvious 2 years ago
Dr_Obvious
We'd have to start a new debate, since I wouldn't have an opportunity to refute anything you said.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
Unless of course Dr. Obvious will allow me to post my arguments in the final round.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
Sorry all, been busy. I'll be happy to start a new debate and let this one go off.
Posted by PinValentine 2 years ago
PinValentine
To suggest no scholar agrees with me, is a gross misrepresentation of fact.
Posted by Max.Wallace 2 years ago
Max.Wallace
That bunny head only wishes to do what bunnies do best. That's on smart carrot eater there, yup.

Sincerely.

The Idiot
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
Dr_ObviousPinValentine
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
bladerunner060
Dr_ObviousPinValentine
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: How unfortunate that Pro chose to waste Con's time. Incidentally, as the one with BoP, Pro really should have started with an argument, Con--it's weird and borderline unfair to require your opponent to have the BoP, but not start with their argument. It's really a moot point, given your opponent completely wasted your time and energy, but I would suggest in the future that if your opponent has BoP, that they "go first" in terms of presenting arguments--and, to keep things fair, usually folks will specify that the last round has to be left blank by their opponent in these cases where it's the contender, rather than the instigator, who has the BoP. But, again, it's irrelevant because Pro wasted your time (have I said that enough?)