The Instigator
AnsweringAtheism
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
telisw37
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Jesus is not the Messiah

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
AnsweringAtheism
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/18/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 793 times Debate No: 44222
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (2)

 

AnsweringAtheism

Pro

Resolution

Jesus is NOT the Messiah

Clarification

This debate is NOT about whether or not Jesus existed, rather, we will examine the claime that Jesus is the Messiah under the light of Jewish scriptures.


Positions of Opposing Contender

My opponent must show that there are good reasons to believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I will attempt to show the opposite.

Rules
  1. Round 1 is acceptance only.
  2. Absolutely no ad hominem attacks: This will result in an automatic loss.
  3. Do not introduce new arguments in the last round.
  4. If you wish to forfeit, then please post it; do not let the time run out!

I wish my partner the best of luck.

telisw37

Con

Thank you for the opportunity. The volume of the Jewish scripture is written about the Jesus you admitted existed.
Debate Round No. 1
AnsweringAtheism

Pro

Shalom alechim,

I thank my partner for accepting this debate and wish him the best of luck.

I. What (or whom) is the “Messiah”

Before we get into whether or not Jesus was the Messiah, we must first know what a Messiah is. In the Hebrew language, the word “Messiah” is מָשִׁיחַ (mashiyahP3;). It is important to note that “Messiah” is not the translation of the word mashiyahP3;, rather it is the English-equivalent of the title.[1]

A “messiah” is simply someone who had been “anointed.” Anointment, or smearing with the Oil of Sacred Anointment as per Exodus 30:22-23, was a ceremony that took place at the coronation of a Hebrew king.[2]

Who is called a “messiah” in Scriptures? Well, King Cyrus is called “His mashiyah” in Isaiah 45:1[3]

כֹּֽה־אָמַ֣ר יְיָ֘ לִמְשִׁיחוֹ֘ לְכ֣וֹרֶשׁ ׀ אֲשֶׁר־הֶחֱזַ֣קְתִּי בִֽימִינ֗וֹ לְרַד־לְפָנָיו֙ גּוֹיִ֔ם וּמָתְנֵ֥י מְלָכִ֖ים אֲפַתֵּ֑חַ לִפְתֹּ֤חַ לְפָנָיו֙ דְּלָתַ֔יִם וּשְׁעָרִ֖ים לֹ֥א יִסָּגֵֽרוּ׃

So said Adonai to His messiah, concerning Koresh (Cyrus) — whom I siezed by his right hand to flatten nations before him, and I will loosen kings’ loins — to open portals before him and gates will not be closed....

Moreover, in the book of Samuel, King Saul and David are called “m’shiyah adonai” or “Adonai’s Messiah.” Saul is called this several times (see I Samuel 12:3, 12:5, etc.) and David gets this title three times in 2 Samuel (19:21, 22:51 and 23:1) and once in Psalms (18:50)!

This effectively refutes the Christian notion that Jesus “Christ” is the one and only Messiah that was to come. Obviously, there were many more “Messiahs”, and NONE OF THEM refer to God Himself!

II. Jesus did not qualify to be the “Messiah”

According to Scriptures, the Messiah MUST:

  1. 1. Be a descendant of King David through Solomon (2 Samuel 7:12-16)
  2. 2. Be a political/military leader (Isaiah 2:3, 11:2-3,6; Daniel 7:14)
  3. 3. Must be married and have children during his lifetime (Ezekiel 46:16-17)

The genealogy is passed from the father (Numbers 1:18). Because Jesus did not have a biological father, Jesus could NOT be the descendant of David through Solomon.

Jesus was never a king or a political/military leader.

Finally, according to the New Testament, Jesus was God; therefore, he could not be married and have children.

III. Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophecies

According to the prophets, the Messiah will:

  1. 1. Be heralded by the return of Elijah (Malachi 3:1, 23-24)
  2. 2. Rebuild the third temple (Ezekiel 40-48)
  3. 3. In-gathering the Jewish exiles to the Promised Land (Isaiah 11:12)
  4. 4. Reunifying Judah and Israel into one people (Ezekiel 37:22, 24)
  5. 5. Establish world peace (Isaiah 2:4)
  6. 6. Bring about the universal knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9)
  7. 7. Realizing the general resurrection of the dead (Daniel 12:2)

Obviously, Jesus did not fulfill any of these Messianic prophecies.

I turn it over to you.

telisw37

Con

I will be the first to agree that the bible is full of "types" or forerunners of The Messiah. I say the key to this debate is about Christ not being THE MESSIAH.
The messiah is a type of Adam. Religion does not teach the truth about Adam/Christ.
Rev_1:4, John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; (Notice three time periods where Christ claimed to be here on earth. 1. Which is in heaven now, after being virgin born and fulfilling the curse of Eden with the cross. 2. Who was there in the beginning [with God mentioned in John 1;1 Who was with God and was God.] 3.Who will return to be king of the earth.){My opponent is correct in saying the prophecies of Ezekiel have not been totally fulfilled yet. Most of Ezekiel is about the 1000 years that Christ rules this earth, has not happened yet.}
Rev_1:5, And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev_1:6, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Another example of something biblical that has not happened yet!)

Or how wrong would it be to assume that when Christ said that the Temple would not be left with one stone left on top of the other. Because anyone can see the wailing wall is still there! Meaning that Christ Himself will finish the job when He returns to the Mount of Olives. Or is my opponent thinking that Jesus did any fighting yet? More examples of what Christ will do in the future.

" Zec 14:1 Behold the day of the LORD cometh and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken and the houses rifled and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth and fight against those nations as when he fought in the day of battle. Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives which is before Jerusalem on the east and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south. "
http://t3.gstatic.com...

Christ fulfilled the curse placed on Adam. I say only Adam returning via virgin daughter of Eve, meaning from umbilical cord to umbilical cord. Christ did fulfill the curse.
" Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos which was the son of Seth which was the son of Adam which was the son of God. "
Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Next let us go back to the beginning.

Where the Torah begins.

" Gen 3:17 And unto Adam (Christ not virgin born yet. Isa_7:16, ) he (Same voice from the clouds speaking, who was pleased, God"s Spirit. Mat_3:17, Mat_17:5, Mar_1:11, ) said Because thou (Christ not virgin born yet" Rev 22:16 ".) hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife (Eve=Israel. Rev_21:2, Rev_21:9, ) and hast eaten of the tree (Cross! Joh_19:19, ) of which I (Same voice from the clouds speaking, who was pleased, God"s Spirit. Mat_3:17, Mat_17:5, Mar_1:11, ) commanded thee saying Thou shalt not eat of it:(Mix your bloodline with Satan.) cursed is the ground (The royal line of David.) for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;(Christ called a man of sorrows. Isa_53:3, ) Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles (Crown of thorns. Mat_27:29, Mat_27:29, Joh_19:2, Joh_19:5,) shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;(Fig tree no figs.) Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face (Sweating in the garden before the cross. Luk_22:44) shalt thou eat bread till thou return unto the ground; (The eating of Passover before the cross! Lord"s Supper. 1Co_11:20, ) for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. "
Those who do not know Christ are spiritually dead anyway.

Messiah
(Heb. mashiah ), in all the thirty-nine instances of its occurring in the Old Testament, is rendered by the LXX. "Christos." It means anointed. Thus priests (Exo_28:41; Exo_40:15; Num_3:3), prophets (1Ki_19:16), and kings (1Sa_9:16; 1Sa_16:3; 2Sa_12:7) were anointed with oil, and so consecrated to their respective offices. The great Messiah is anointed "above his fellows" (Psa_45:7); i.e., he embraces in himself all the three offices. The Greek form "Messias " is only twice used in the New Testament, in Joh_1:41 and Joh_4:25 (R.V., "Messiah"), and in the Old Testament the word Messiah, as the rendering of the Hebrew, occurs only twice (Dan_9:25, Dan_9:26; R.V., "the anointed one"). The first great promise (Gen_3:15) contains in it the germ of all the prophecies recorded in the Old Testament regarding the coming of the Messiah and the great work he was to accomplish on earth. The prophecies became more definite and fuller as the ages rolled on; the light shone more and more unto the perfect day. Different periods of prophetic revelation have been pointed out,
(1.) the patriarchal; (2.) the Mosaic; (3.) the period of David; (4.) the period of prophetism, i.e., of those prophets whose works form a part of the Old Testament canon. The expectations of the Jews were thus kept alive from generation to generation, till the "fulness of the times," when Messiah came, "made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law." In him all these ancient prophecies have their fulfillment. Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, the great Deliverer who was to come. (Compare Mat_26:54; Mar_9:12; Luk_18:31; Luk_22:37; Joh_5:39; Acts 2; Act_16:31; Act_26:22, Act_26:23.)
Debate Round No. 2
AnsweringAtheism

Pro

Please do forgive me, but I am at a loss to fully understand what my opponent is trying to say. He posts a ton of scripture without really explaining how it points to Jesus. Remember, in order for me to win this debate, I must show that there are good reasons to reject Jesus as being the Messiah; and in order for my opponent to win, he must show there are good reasons to believe Jesus is the Messiah. As my opponent has not done so, please extend arguments.

Types of Messiahs?

I am unsure what my opponent means by "types" of Messiahs. How could there be a "type" of someone who is anointed? Remember that all kings and high priests are "messiahs" as they are ceremonally anointed with oil.


A Word about the Greek

My opponent, unsurprisingly, points out the Greek translates "מָשִׁיחַ" (mashiyah) into "ΧριστP57;ς" (Christos). This is indeed true as ΧριστP57;ς is the Greek equivalent of מָשִׁיחַ, just as Messiah is the English-equivalent of מָשִׁיחַ.

My opponent "scripture-bombs" - posts a ton of text without explaining how that relates to Jesus.
telisw37

Con

So sorry if the depth of the truth of my message goes right over the brain of my opponent.
The truth is so simple Adam who was cursed returned via virgin born through Mary=Christ is what the bible is all about.

Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

" Isa 43:9 Let all the nations be gathered together and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses that they may be justified: or let them hear and say It is truth. Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses saith the LORD and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. Isa 43:11 I even I am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. "

" Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos which was the son of Seth which was the son of Adam which was the son of God. "

1Ch_1:1, Adam, Sheth, Enosh,
1Ch_1:2, Kenan, Mahalaleel, Jered,
1Ch_1:3, Henoch, Methuselah, Lamech,
1Ch_1:4, Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
1Ch_1:5, The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
Debate Round No. 3
AnsweringAtheism

Pro

The Burden of Proof in this debate is shared. Because my opponent has never substantiated the claim that Jesus is the messiah, please vote pro.


My opponent has not addressed my arguments nor has he explained how the verses he posted possibly refer to jesus.

Extend all arguments.
telisw37

Con

I beg to differ that I never explained myself because my opponent admitted that he was clueless about the bible facts posted.

I offer 300+ verses that refer to Jesus as Messiah.

324 Messianic Prophecies
Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan's head.....Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18
Gen. 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated....Mk. 6:19
Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Lu. 3:36
Gen. 12:3...As Abraham's seed, will bless all nations...Acts. 3:25,26
Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham's Seed...Gal. 3:16
Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Heb. 6:20
Gen. 14:18........A King also........Heb. 7:2
Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Mt. 26:26-29
Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Rom. 9:7
Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...Jn. 1:29
Gen. 22:18...As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations...Gal. 3:16
Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer..Heb.11:18
Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33 300 Prophecies Fulfilled
Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn. 10:16
Ex. 3:13,14........The Great "I Am".......Jn. 4:26
Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19
Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8
Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5;7
Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36
Ex. 15:2...His exaltation predicted as Yeshua...Acts 7:55,56
Ex. 15:11...His Character-Holiness...Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
Ex. 17:6...The Spiritual Rock of Israel...1 Cor. 10;4
Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72
Lev.14:11..The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14; Acts 6:7
Lev.16:15-17...Prefigures Christ's once-for-all death...Heb. 9:7-14
Lev.16:27...Suffering outside the Camp...Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11, 12
Lev.17:11...The Blood-the life of the flesh...Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45
Lev.17:11...It is the blood that makes atonement...1 Jn. 3:14-18
Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst." ..Jn. 19:31-36
Num. 9:12...Not a bone of Him broken...John 19:31-36
Num. 21:9...The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up...Jn. 3:14-18
Num. 24:17...Time: "I shall see him, but not now."...Gal. 4:4
Deut. 18:15..."This is of a truth that prophet."...Jn. 6:14
Deut. 18:15-16..."Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe me."...Jn. 5:45-47
Deut. 18:18...Sent by the Father to speak His word...Jn. 8:28, 29
Deut. 18:19...Whoever will not hear must bear his sin...Jn. 12:15,
Deut. 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree...Gal. 3:10-13
Ruth 4:4-9...Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us...Eph. 1:3-7
1 Sam. 2:10...Shall be an anointed King to the Lord...Mt. 28:18; Jn. 12:15
2 Sam. 7:12...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1
2 Sam. 7:14a...The Son of God... Lu. 1:32
2 Sam. 7:16...David's house established forever...Lu. 3:31; Rev. 22:16
2 Ki. 2:11...The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated...Lu. 24:51
1 Chr. 17:11...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1; 9:27
1 Chr. 17:12, 13a...To reign on David's throne forever...Lu. 1:32, 33
1 Chr. 17:13a..."I will be His Father, He...my Son."...Heb. 1:5
Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29
Psa. 2:1-3...The enmity of kings foreordained...Acts 4:25-28
Psa. 2:2...To own the title, Anointed (Christ)...Acts 2:36
Ps. 2:6...His Character-Holiness...Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7
Ps. 2:6...To own the title King...Mt. 2:2
Ps. 2:7...Declared the Beloved Son...Mt. 3;17 300 Prophecies Fulfilled
Psa. 2:7, 8...The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated...Acts 13:29-33
Psa. 2:12...Life comes through faith in Him...Jn. 20:31
Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16
Psa. 8:5, 6...His humiliation and exaltation...Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor. 15:27
Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31
Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9
Psa. 17;15...The resurrection predicted...Lu. 24:6
Psa. 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Cor. 5:21
Psa. 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mk. 15:34
Psa. 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Mt. 27:45
Psa. 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Mt. 27:39
Psa. 22:8.."He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him"...Mt. 27:43
Psa. 22:9......Born the Saviour......Lu. 2:7
Psa. 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured)heart...Jn. 19:34
Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37
Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28
Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn. 19:34,37;20:27
Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu. 23:34,35
Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24
Psa. 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Lu.23:46
Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's heel..Heb. 2:14
Psa. 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....Jn. 20:17
Psa. 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16
Psa. 22:31......"It is finished"......Jn. 19:30
Psa. 23:1...."I am the Good Shephard"....Jn. 10:11
Psa. 24:3......His exaltation predicted......Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9
Psa. 30:3......His resurrection predicted......Acts 2:32
Psa. 31:5..."Into thy hands I commit my spirit"...Lu. 23:46
Psa. 31:11...His acquaintances fled from Him...Mk. 14:50
Psa. 31:13...They took counsel to put Him to death...Jn. 11:53
Psa. 31:14,15..." He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"...Mt. 27:43
Psa. 34:20.....Not a bone of Him broken.....Jn 19:31-36
Psa. 35:11....False witnesses rose up against Him....Mt. 26:59
Psa. 35:19...He was hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 38:11.....His friends stood afar off.....Lu. 23:49
Psa. 40:2-5...The joy of His resurrection predicted...Jn. 20:20
Psa. 40:6-8....His delight-the will of the Father....Jn. 4:34
Psa. 40:9....He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel....Mt. 4:17
Psa. 40:14...Confronted by adversaries in the Garden...Jn. 18:4-6
Psa. 41:9.....Betrayed by a familiar friend.....Jn. 13:18
Psa. 45:2...Words of Grace come from His lips...Lu. 4:22 300 Prophecies Fulfilled
Psa. 45:6...To own the title, God or Elohim...Heb. 1:8
Psa. 45:7...A special anointing by the Holy Spirit...Mt.3:16; Heb.1:9
Psa. 45:7,8...Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)...Lu. 2:11
Psa. 55:12-14...Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy...Jn. 13:18
Psa. 55:15...Unrepentant death of the Betrayer...Mt. 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
Psa. 68:18...To give gifts to men...Eph. 4:7-16
Psa. 68:18...Ascended into Heaven...Lu. 24:51
Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4; 18:11
Psa. 72:10,11...Great persons were to visit Him...Mt. 2:1-11
Psa. 72:16...The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground...Jn. 12:24
Psa. 72:17...His name, Yinon, will produce offspring...Jn. 1:12,13
Psa. 72:17...All nations shall be blessed by Him...Acts 2:11,12,41
Psa. 78:1.2...He would teach in parables...Mt. 13:34-35

https://www.google.com...

Fulfilling my shared burden of proof when my opponent offered nothing.

https://www.google.com...
Debate Round No. 4
AnsweringAtheism

Pro

I am not "clueless" at the Bible passages, I am clueless as to what your argument is. You posted quite a lot of scripture and NEVER substantiated how those verses point to Jesus.

1) My opponent never refuted my arguments
2) My opponent never substantiated his claim that Jesus is the Messiah.

VOTE PRO
telisw37

Con

I like to thank my opponent for offering this debate, that deny's that the Jesus written of in the New Testament was for-told in the Old Testament, is an fact that I assumed anyone suggesting this would understand that very basic fact. The bible is an eternal document.

Mat_5:18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Luk_16:17, And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

I offer this: Adam's genealogy form a statement. Man can not do that.
Hebrew -English
Adam -Man
Seth -Appointed
Enosh -Mortal
Kenan -Sorrow;
Mahalalel -The Blessed God
Jared -Shall come down
Enoch -Teaching
Methuselah -His death shall bring
Lamech -The Despairing
Noah -Rest, or comfort.
That's rather remarkable:

Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest.

Here's the Gospel hidden within a genealogy in Genesis!

(You will never convince me that a group of Jewish rabbis conspired to hide the Christian Gospel right here in a genealogy within their venerated Torah!)

Adam was is God not all of mankind. 99.9% of all religions are false and of Satan.
Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

" Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos which was the son of Seth which was the son of Adam which was the son of God. "

My opponent is actually proving scripture!
Example#1: 2Pe_3:4, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Example #2 Isa_29:11, And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isa_29:12, And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isa_29:13, Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isa_29:14, Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isa_29:15, Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?

Isa_29:16, Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
My awaking!
http://youtu.be...
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
My awaking!
http://youtu.be...
Posted by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
Amen. (Hah)
Posted by AnsweringAtheism 2 years ago
AnsweringAtheism
Yup. I love a good theological debate. Religion is my favourite topic to debate.
Posted by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
Absolutely! You know that I'm always game for a good theological debate.
Posted by AnsweringAtheism 2 years ago
AnsweringAtheism
Thank you! Did you want to debate this topic at a later date?
Posted by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
We have lots of catching up to do. I'm afraid that I can't accept this debate today- I promised my gf to give debating a break for a while. Lol.

Nonetheless, good luck though!
Posted by AnsweringAtheism 2 years ago
AnsweringAtheism
Yes bucket
Posted by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
David! Is that you?!
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by janetsanders733 2 years ago
janetsanders733
AnsweringAtheismtelisw37Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Although I agree with Con, Pro stayed on topic while Con kind of avoided some of the objections.
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 2 years ago
Buckethead31594
AnsweringAtheismtelisw37Tied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Well, I have to give it to Con for sources. His liberal usage of scripture is... commendable. Pro is correct in stating that Con did not counter his arguments, nor did Con explain the credibility of his chosen scripture. In the end, I feel the flaw lies in a simple case of misunderstanding in Con's arguments- for he wasn't supposed to provide scripture that speaks of the Messiah, but scripture that proves Jesus as the Messiah. I wouldn't go too hard on Con, for it is a mere case of a beginner verses a professional debater. This would always result in a lopsided debate. Pro obviously wins for arguments, but I commend Con for their honest effort.