The Instigator
Noetusabel
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Blade-of-Truth
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Jesus is the Father incarnate

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Blade-of-Truth
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/8/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 719 times Debate No: 61413
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (2)

 

Noetusabel

Pro

Jesus is the Father incarnate.
Blade-of-Truth

Con

I accept the challenge, and thank Pro for starting this thought-provoking debate. I've really not done many religious debates while here, so this will be a good place to continue my current trend.

I now return the floor to Pro for his opening arguments. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
Noetusabel

Pro

Is this mathematical equation right or wrong?
1x + 1x + 1x = 3x
One Almighty (God the Father) + One Almighty (God the Son) + One Almighty (God the Holy Ghost) = 3 Almighties ( Trinitarians opposes)
One God (God the Father) + One God (God the Son) + One God (God the Holy Ghost) = 3 Gods ( Trinitarians opposes)

Can an eternal God die? If not, how did the eternal Son die? If yes, how can an eternal God die? If the humanity of God the Son died, does His divinity die as well? If not, where was (or what happened to) His divinity while He was dead? If yes, how can divinity die?
Blade-of-Truth

Con

Since Pro is making the affirmative claim that "Jesus is the Father incarnate", then it follows that the BOP lies solely on him.

I. Pro needs to Prove God exists

First and foremost, Pro is making the claim that Jesus is the Father incarnate. Who is this "Father"? Is is the Abrahamic God? Until Pro clarifies who exactly this "Father" is, I have no argument to rebut against. Pro is just making an unproven claim about a man being someone or something else. Until he can:

A) State what this thing is that Jesus is supposedly the incarnate of

and

B) Prove that whatever this thing Jesus is supposedly the incarnate of exists...

there is nothing to rebut, as Pro is doing nothing more than making illogical claims.

I can just as easily say "Jesus is not the Father incarnate" and it'd hold just as much weight because Pro has yet to prove his claim. So far, Pro has failed to maintain his BOP due to failing at providing evidence for such a claim.

II. Responses to Questions posed by Pro

1) Can an eternal God die? If not, how did the eternal Son die? If yes, how can an eternal God die?

An "eternal" God cannot, in theory and by definition, die. The definition for eternal is: Lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

If you mean "Jesus" when you say eternal Son, then I can say he died after being crucified on the cross.
Romans 4:25 also states, "He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification." (NIV) http://biblehub.com...

So it would be equally valid to say he literally died on the cross due to blood loss and dehydration, and died metaphorically for the sins of mankind as is taught in Christian literature.

2) If the humanity of God the Son died, does His divinity die as well? If not, where was (or what happened to) His divinity while He was dead? If yes, how can divinity die?

Humanity and Divinity are two different things.

Humanity is defined as:

1. The human race; human beings collectively:
1.2 The fact or condition of being human; human nature. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

Divinity is defined as:

The state or quality of being divine. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

Since we need to dig deeper, the definition for Divine is:

Of, from, or like God or a god. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

Now, since Humanity has to do with the condition of being human, whereas Divinity has to do with the likeness of God, we can see a clear distinction start to rise between these two terms. It is not therefore logical to assume that one of these qualities is dependent on the other or vice versa since both qualities have to do with two completely different things.

Pro needs to prove the divinity of the person in question. Until that is proven, there is no claim to rebut since it is nothing more than a baseless assumption. Since the divinity isn't proven yet, the question of whether the thing in question loses that which has yet to be proven holds no ground as it is an illogical question.

In Conclusion,

Pro has done nothing to support his BOP so far. All that has been made is baseless assertions which require proof before they can be taken on as valid claims. Pro needs to show what this "Father" is, pro then needs to prove that this thing exists, and lastly pro needs to show how this eternal son had divinity. Until these three challenges are met, Pro has done nothing for his side of this debate aside from posing mathematical problems which hold no ground whatsoever and questions which are in themselves illogical assumptions.

I would ask Pro to fulfill his BOP by taking on these challenges that I've laid out. I now return the floor to Pro.
Thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
Noetusabel

Pro

Noetusabel forfeited this round.
Blade-of-Truth

Con

Pro has forfeited the final round.

I therefore extend all arguments as they currently remain standing unchallenged.

Pro has done nothing to prove that Jesus is the Father incarnate. As Pro, he needed to uphold his BOP and provide proof for his claim.

I look forward to any and all challenges from Pro in the future.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
Hey Pro, I'm sorry but we had to put my childhood dog down today and I'm not in the best place emotionally. I'll post my argument in a day or two.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
I did answer the question.You just did not understand it. Adam died spiritually immediately. But did not die physically 900 years later.His inner man was reborn from life to death. Spiritual death was lodged in him.He accepted spiritual death when he accepted the word of a spiritually dead being over the word of his Father.Jesus is called the second Adam. Adam was God's son, and jesus is God's son. Not called the only begotten son any more.He is now the FIRST born son. He was reborn in hell from deatd to Adam. Adam passed spiritual death to all mankind. Because of the law of geneses. Everything will reproduce after its own kind. Jesus was raised from the dead , spiritual life was injected into his sin-depleted spirit. He rose and spiritual power was given to him. He grabbed satan and took from him the keys of death, hell and the grave. Now Jesus can and will pass eternal life to all them that believe, IF we accept his being raised from the dead he will implant the life in us that he received when he was raised from the dead.
I frankly do not know what bible you are studying.But there are things God cannot do. He can and will not stop a man from choosing to keep the spiritual death passed to him from Adam.God does not know the sinner. Have you ever heard , " depart from me , for I never knew you." And it is not God in control here on earth, it is us. He has given us promises in His word that will lift us over the death cycle. But if we do not take those promises to heart, then he will let us suffer.Since ha gave Adam dominion, He has to be invited in to work. When Jesus went to his home town, Nazareth, the bible says there he COULD do no mighty work, Not would not. Because of THEIR unbelief.And he is the same yesterday,today ,and forever.Healing always comes when his word on healing is preached. But it is not always received.No more than salvation is always received.But it always comes. Standing at the door of hearts and knocks.
Posted by Noetusabel 2 years ago
Noetusabel
*while
Posted by Noetusabel 2 years ago
Noetusabel
Cheyenne... You're not answering the question. Did the divinity of God the Son die as well when his humanity died? And I don't know but my God can manifest Himself simultaneously whole he's in heaven and his manifestations are on earth, under the earth, under the seas or above the clouds. For my God can take any forms and reveal Himself in as many ways He wishes to and remain ONE GOD. For nothing is too difficult for my God. How about your god?
Posted by Noetusabel 2 years ago
Noetusabel
Ridiculous? No one can even answer my questions. Ad hominem. Tsk tsk tsk. Is that the best you can comment?
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
what?? Pros args are ridiculous
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Leroy. Talk about being wastefull. Why not do something more useful than you are doing right now. Like go and watch paint dry.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Of course he died. Spiritual death is not ceasing to exist. The word says that jesus became sin. That is spiritual death. If had never died and gone to hell,you would have to.11 cor. 5:21. He who knew no sin was made sin, for us, that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him.Jesus never committed sin. So the sin he was made with was our sin. He accepted our sin, or the law of sin and death, in his spirit man.That separated him from the father.And none of us have committed any righteousness. The closest we get is filthy rags. So, the only way we can be righteous is to be made his righteousness. Any one who claims being righteous outside of the sacrifice of Jesus is self-righteous. When he accepted our sin in his spirit, he opened the door for us to accept his righteousness in our spirit man.
And at his baptism, there was a voice from heaven, " this is my beloved son, listen to him." If Jesus is the father, then he would have to have been a ventriloquist.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 2 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
More Wasteful Gobblydegook.

Mt name wasn't Jesus.
My name was Hebrew, Pronounced Yeshua.
The guy/ body who claimed that his personal name was pronounced Yahweh,
couldn't have been God, the Father,
(why would God have a personal name in ancient Hebrew? )
& apparently couldn't have been my (my body's ) father.
Nope.

Study my Debates, such as the one titled
" "Yahweh" was an Extraterrestrial ... " before wasting any more times in Fake "debates" .
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
NoetusabelBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Truth_seeker
NoetusabelBlade-of-TruthTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited the round, really wanted to see this debate.