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Jesus is the Messiah of the Jews

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/24/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 587 times Debate No: 74071
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
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Resolved that Jesus, Yeshua of Nazareth, Yeshua bin Yosef, is the Masiach, Messiah.
I believe that Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph is the Messiah. He fuffils at least 72 of the Old Testament Prophecies and claimed he was the Messsiah in truth. I will unpack some of the prophecies in the later rounds.
First round: acceptance and opening statements
Good luck my friend


I wish to thank my opponent for challenging me to this debate.

What is a Messiah?

In Hebrew, the word Messiah is מָשִׁיחַ and it appears 39 times in the Tanakh (Old Testament), in eleven distinct expression; of these, 34 occurrences are nouns ("a messiah") and five are adjectives ("smeared with oil"). [1]

Who is called a "messiah"?

Example 1: King Saul

הִנֵּה֩ הַיּ֨וֹם הַזֶּ֜ה רָא֣וּ עֵינֶ֗יךָ אֵ֣ת אֲשֶׁר־נְתָֽנְךָ֩ יְיָ֨ ׀ הַיּ֤וֹם ׀ בְּיָדִי֙ בַּמְּעָרָ֔ה וְאָמַ֥ר לַֽהֲרָגֲךָ֖ וַתָּ֣חָס עָלֶ֑יךָ וָֽאֹמַ֗ר לֹֽא־אֶשְׁלַ֤ח יָדִי֙ בַּֽאדֹנִ֔י כִּֽי־מְשִׁ֥יחַ יְיָ֖ הֽוּא׃

Look, today you have seen with your own eyes how Adonai gave you into my power in the cave, and (someone) said to kill you, but (I) took pity on you and I said, “I will not stretch my hand out against my master because he is Adonai’s messiah.” [2]

Example 2: King Koresh (Cyrus)

כֹּֽה־אָמַ֣ר יְיָ֘ לִמְשִׁיחוֹ֘ לְכ֣וֹרֶשׁ ׀ אֲשֶׁר־הֶחֱזַ֣קְתִּי בִֽימִינ֗וֹ לְרַד־לְפָנָיו֙ גּוֹיִ֔ם וּמָתְנֵ֥י מְלָכִ֖ים אֲפַתֵּ֑חַ לִפְתֹּ֤חַ לְפָנָיו֙ דְּלָתַ֔יִם וּשְׁעָרִ֖ים לֹ֥א יִסָּגֵֽרוּ׃

So said Adonai to His messiah, concerning Koresh (Cyrus) — whom I seized by his right hand to flatten nations before him, and I will loosen kings’ loins — to open portals before him and gates will not be closed....[3]

Example 3: Prophets/Messiahs in the Plural

אַֽל־תִּגְּע֥וּ בִמְשִׁיחָ֑י וְ֝לִנְבִיאַי אַל־תָּרֵֽעוּ׃

Don’t touch My messiahs or harm My prophets! [4]

Example 4: The Kohanim (Priests)

וְלָקַ֛ח הַכֹּהֵ֥ן הַמָּשִׁ֖יחַ מִדַּ֣ם הַפָּ֑ר וְהֵבִ֥יא אֹת֖וֹ אֶל־אֹ֥הֶל מוֹעֵֽד׃
....then the oil-smeared kohén is to take some of the bull’s blood and bring it into the Ohel Mo'éd....[5]

Special note: This is the ONLY example in the entire Tanach where the word "Messiah" is followed by the definite article The"

Who is "THE" Messiah?

As we have seen in the above definitions, a messiah is a ruler/leader who is anointed with oil. When we talk about THE Messiah, we generally refer to the Messiah that will come at the end of days. Does Jesus fit the bill?

The Bible prophecies that the Messiah will, among other things, do the following:

- Rebuild the temple [6]
- Gather the exiled Jews back to Eretz Yisroel [7]
- Establish world peace [8]
- Universal knowledge of G-d [9]
- Bring about the resurrection of the dead. [10]


The Messiah must be a descendant of David and Solomon. Because Jesus was born of a virgin, Jesus had no biological father. The Jewish tribe is passed from father-son; therefore, Jesus was NOT a biological descendant of David and Solomon. [11]


My opponent claims that Jesus fulfilled over 72 prophecies and that he will expand in coming rounds. I ask that you keep it to 5 prophecies so I can have adequate time and space to respond.

Thank you.


2. First Samuel 24:10(11)
3. Isaiah 45:1
4. Psalm 105:15
5. Leviticus 4:5
6. Ezekiel 37:26-28
7. Isaiah 11:12
8. Ibid 2:4
9. Ibid 11:9
10. Daniel 12:2
11. See and
Debate Round No. 1


Thank you for this debate my friend.
The prophecy I will deal with here is that he (The Messiah) would be pierced without breaking a bone. Psalm 34:20 says this in the NIV: He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken.
This prophecy was literally fuffilled in Yeshua ben Yosef.
On the cross of calvary hill, he was nailed by his wrists and feet, and his bones were not broken.
Then, after he died something else happened. A Roman soldier stabbed his side with a spear, and blood and water poured out forthwith. John 19.
Zechariah says they will look on him who they pierced.
Undoubtedly, this prophecy refers to Yeshua, who was pierced by nails, and stabbed with a spear, and his bones were not broken.
Thanks for the debate thus far


Thank you for your speedy response.

Does Psalm 34:20 Predict Jesus will be the Messiah?

Psalm 34:20 [21 in Jewish counting] states the following:

"He guards all his bones; not one of them was broken."

The question is: What is the Psalmist referring to? Let's look at the previous verse.

"Many evils befall the righteous, but the Lord saves him from them all."

The context of Psalm 34 is a song of Praise. There are no prophecies in Psalm 34. Psalm 34:1 states Of David, when he disguised his sanity before Abimelech, whereupon he drove him out and he departed.

Rashi expands on the first verse:

when he disguised his sanity: as the matter that is stated (in I Sam. 21:14): “And he changed his speech before their eyes, etc. And he scribbled upon the doors of the gates.” That he disguised his speech and his sanity and feigned madness and let his saliva run down upon his beard. before Abimelech: All Philistine kings were called thus, and all Egyptian kings [were called] Pharaoh. Although his name was Achish, he was called Abimelech. The Midrash Aggadah explains that he was as righteous as Abimelech (mentioned in the Torah in relation to Sarah), for he did not want to kill him although his men said to him, “Is this not David, the king of the land?” As is stated in Midrash Psalms (34:1).

before Abimelech: All Philistine kings were called thus, and all Egyptian kings [were called] Pharaoh. Although his name was Achish, he was called Abimelech. The Midrash Aggadah explains that he was as righteous as Abimelech (mentioned in the Torah in relation to Sarah), for he did not want to kill him although his men said to him, “Is this not David, the king of the land?” As is stated in Midrash Psalms (34:1).

The Psalm continues in verse 2:

"I will bless the Lord at all times; His praise is always in my mouth."

From the start, we see that the context of this Psalm is a Psalm that is blessing G-d.


Psalm 34 is not talking about a partiular individual, nor is it a messianic prophecy; rather, this Psalm is praising G-d for taking care of the righteous.

Zechariah: A Peircing Look at a False Claim

"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son. On that day there shall be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the Valley of Megiddon." - Zechariah 12:111

The chapter in Zechariah in which this verse is found, speaks of the siege of Jerusalem. The prophet describes how the nations will besiege Jerusalem, but they will not succeed. The prophet describes how a Jewish contingent in the besieging army will do battle against the nations that have come to besiege Jerusalem. The Jewish warriors will succeed, and the nations besieging Jerusalem will be destroyed. It is in the context of this battle that there will be a great mourning for the “one who was pierced.”

Conclusion: Zechariah is a messianic prophecy, but has nothing to do with a crucifixion and was not fulfilled by Jesus.

Over to pro.
He guards all his bones; not one of them was broken
Debate Round No. 2


Shalom and thank you for a great debate so far :).
another important prophecy that Yeshua ben Yosef, Jesus of Nazareth, son of Joseph fuffiled as the Masiach is in Numbers 21:9 of the sacred Torah.
"So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live."
This prophecy pertains directly to Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamasiach ben Yosef of Nazareth, Melek (King) of Ysrael.
Christ said in John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up.
He also said that "I when I am lifted up from the earth shall draw all men to myself."
He has fufilled this prophecy by being lifted up on the cross of calvary. Through it, he made men live. The bronze snake is a prophecy pertaining directly to Christ.
Thank you for the debate thus far


I would like to thank my opponent for this debate. My opponent has not refuted any of my arguments and as such, I extend all arguments.

My opponent brings up a the copper serpent that Moshe made in the desert; however, my opponent seems to forget that it was destroyed by Hezekiah because people were worshipping it as an idol.
Debate Round No. 3


Looking at your arguments on Psalm 34:20 and referring to the book of Zechariah...
is the siege of jerusalem the one in 70AD?
and, in Zechariah we see the mount of olives will be split, upon the return of the messiah.
We see Israel's restoration.
The Masiach or Messiah shall restore Israel, and the piercing part...
How does that not refer to a crucifixion?
Psalm 22 of David says that "they have pierced my hands on my feet." clearly a reference to crucifxion.
I hope I have refuted as best as I can as I am still learning on debates.
Thank you to my friend for this debate and shalom


Once again, thank you for your reply.

I'd like to begin by responding to Psalm 22. The KJV states:

"For dogs have surrounded me; a band of evildoers have encompassed me; they pierced my hands and my feet."

What is going on here? At first glance, it may appear that this could be a prophecy concerning the messiah. However, the Hebrew states the following:

יזכִּי סְבָבוּנִי כְּלָבִים עֲדַת מְרֵעִים הִקִּיפוּנִי כָּאֲרִי יָדַי וְרַגְלָי:
The problem is the mistranslation of the phrase ca'ari, which I have underlined. The phrase "ca'ari" means "like a lion" and has nothing to do with being pierced or crucifixion. Here are more uses of the word ca'ari:

"I compass my soul until morning. Lik a lion -- so He breaks all my bones, from day until night You make an end of me." - Isaiiah 38:13

"Behold, a people rise like a lioness, and as a lion it fits itself, it will not lie down until it devours the prey, and drinks the blood of the slain." - Numbers 23:24

Thus, the correct translation is as follows:

"For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have enclosed me; like a lion, [they are at] my hands and my feet.

David Ha'Melech uses this theme throughout the Psalms - comparing his enemies to wild animals about to pounce on him.

Thank you

My opponent has yet to respond to a single argument that I have made in my opening round as to why Jesus is not the Jewish messiah.

יזכִּי סְבָבוּנִי כְּלָבִים עֲדַת מְרֵעִים הִקִּיפוּנִי כָּאֲרִי יָדַי וְרַגְלָי:

Debate Round No. 4


Thank you again for this debate my friend.

Exzample 1 from round 1 King Saul was not a Messiah of God. The Messiah would be Prophet, Priest and King, and a suffering servant (Isaiah 52-53)

Exzample 2 from round 1
King Cyrus was not the messiah, it (the messianic prophecy) was not fufilled in him

Qualifications and refutal of what a messiah is
Let's see the Messiah will insitute world peace and come in the last days. All is correct there.

However, Jesus was fully divine and fully human and thus fufilled all these and will come again.
Thanks for the debate, shalom


Thank you for the fun debate. In my closing round, I wish to respond to the argument that the messiah would be a prophet, priest and king. It is impossible for anyone to be both a priest and a king. The kings came from the tribe of Yehudah (Judah) and the priests came from the tribe of Levi. The Kohanim were Levi'im who were direct descendants of Aaron the Kohen Gadol.

Also, to discount everything because "Jesus will come again" is a non-sequitor. Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that the Messiah will come again.

Please vote con!

Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by shaduwarsenaal 1 year ago
To start, debates regarding whether Jesus is the Messiah have been going on for a long time. Both sides made a convincing argument and good sources. I like how both used the Old Testament to prove their point. Reliable sources or not, I found some falts in this debate Con states that The Jewish tribe is passed from father-son; therefore, Jesus was NOT a biological descendant of David and Solomon. However; I am pretty sure it is not stated whether Jesus had to be a biological descendent. Secondly, he references Ibid 2:4 and Ibid 11:9. These books are not in certain versions of the Old Testament. In a positive approach, Con did well in using the Hebrew tongue which is the original language in which the Old Testament was written. These books are not in certain versions of the Old Testament He did not respond to all Con's points. Going to Pro's arguments I do believe, though, he answered well each point he did address and give. For certain, even for people with pre-bias, it is hard to give either side the winning vote.
Posted by TheWORDisLIFE 1 year ago
What does virgin mean? The Biblical meaning of Virgin is an unmarried woman or a young girl of marriageable age.
Posted by davidpneff 1 year ago

I thought Jesus was born of a virgin??
Posted by TheWORDisLIFE 1 year ago

Jesus is the son of Joseph, His biological father. Maybe you should read Matthew 1:1-16.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Precept to Deut 18:18
Jeremiah 33:15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.

Psalm 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

2 Samuel 7:12-13 12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Precept to 2 Sam 7:12-13

Luke 1:32-33 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Act 13:22-23 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

"no end" and "for ever" are the two key words in those two verses. They mean the same thing. So as prophesied, Jesus came from the sperm of David and He is the Messiah.
Posted by davidpneff 1 year ago
Please make this a 5 round debate
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