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Jesus isnt God he's The begotten Son of God

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,360 times Debate No: 91610
Debate Rounds (5)
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Hi I am a born again Christian who is trying to spread a point out to my fellow Christians and maybe even have a debate with those who believe that Jesus is God.

Thank you for taking the time out to view my argument and I pray that you have a Blessed day :)


The Scriptures proclaim that there is one, and only one God in all of existence. (Deu 4:35; Isa 43:10-11; 44:6, 8; 45:5-6, 14, 21-22; 46:9; Mal 2:10; Rom 3:30; 1 Cor 8:6; Eph 4:6; Jam 2:19) It also says that there is only one true God. (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20) This means that all other gods are false. Since there is only one God, then no other being can truely be a god. This is why they are false gods. Now, Scripture plainly identifies the Son as God in John 20:28. The term "my God" refers to the true God every single time it is used in the Bible outside of John 20:28, establishig the consistent linguistic use of the term. Thomas here calls Jesus in the Greek, ho kurious mou kai ho theos mou, literally, the Lord of me and the God of me. So John 20:28 calls Jesus the God of Thomas, and in verse 29 Jesus approves. Now since there is only one true God, either Jesus was the true God in John 20:28, or a false god. Which is it? I look forward to my opponents answer. But Jesus is also identified as God in Isaiah 9:6. So which is it: is he a true god, or a false god? If he is a true god, then he must be the Almighty, for there is only one true God, not two; if he is a false god, we are not saved, for no pretender could save us.

Isa 44:24 tells us that Yahweh made all things, stretched out the heavens alone, spread out the earth by himself; yet Scripture reveals the Father as creator (Isa 64:8), and the Son (Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 8-10), and the Holy Spirit (Ps 104:30; Job 26:13; 33:4) Combine this with the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:16 and the trinitarian has an airtight case. If Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not one God with the Father, then God the Father had help and did not create all things alone, by himself, as he said in Isaiah 44:24. If the trinity is true, harmony comes to the texts.

At Isaiah 43:11 Yahweh declares, "I myself am Yahweh and besides me there is no Saviour." (WEB) Scripture tells us palinly that Jesus is the Saviour. (Matt 1:21; Lu 2:11; Acts 4:12; 2 Tim 1:10; Tit 1:4; 2 Pet 1:11, etc) So is Jesus Yahweh himself, or is he another Saviour besides Yahweh? Which is it? If he is Yahweh, then he must be one Yahweh with the Father. For there is only one Yahweh. (Deu 6:4) If he is not Yahweh, then he is another Saviour besides Yahweh, and Yahweh was lying when he claimed to be the only Saviour. Which is it? Acts 4:12 says of Jesus, that "there is no salvation in anyone else." Now, if Jesus is not God, then there can be no salvation in God, for there is no salvation in anyone else but Jesus.

2 Corinthians 12:8-9 "In this behalf I three times entreated the Lord that it might depart from me; and yet he really said to me: "My undeserved kindness is sufficient for you; for [my] power is being made perfect in weakness.' Most gladly, therefore, will I rather boast as respects my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may like a tent remain over me." Here Paul prayed to the "Lord" Jesus three times and Jesus answered his prayer by saying: "My... power is being make perfect in weakness." Paul concluded by admitting that he would "rather boast ...that the power of (who?) the Christ may like a tent remain over me." So, here again, we see an example of a Christian in the Bible praying to the Lord Jesus with Jesus responding to the prayer with His "underserved kindness" and "power." (NWT) We are told about Jesus hearing our prayers again in 1 John 5:12-16 and Acts 7:59. This would not be so if Jesus were not God.

I must at this point mention the Granville Sharp rule of Greek grammar. This rule states that when there are 2 nouns that are both singular which describe a person, and these nouns are connected by the word "and," the first noun having the article, the second noun not having the article then they refer to the SAME PERSON. (*Note that the nouns cannot be personal names*) There is absolutely no exception to this rule in all of the Greek New Testament. Having stated this rule I find it necessary to present two verses of scripture that unequivocally qualify Jesus as both God and Savior.

Titus 2:13 - while we wait for the blessed hope"the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, (NIV)

2Peter 1:1 - Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: (NIV)

Notice in both verses the noun "God" (theou) has the article (tou) and is connected to the second noun "Savior" (soteros) which does not have an article, by the word "and" (kai). Thus "God and Savior" both refer to the Person of Jesus. Grammatically this is irrefutable. So not only is Jesus Savior, He is God! So I think I have made a good case that Jesus is definitely God, and since there is only one God, then the Father and the Son must be one God. Now, onto the Holy Spirit.

That the Holy Spirit is God and Lord is clearly stated in the Scriptures. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor 3:17) The Holy Spirit has the same attributes of Deity as the Father and the Son:

The Father is eternal (Ps 90:2), and the Son (Isa 9:6; Mic 5:2), and the Holy Spirit (Heb 9:14)
The Father is omniscient (1 John 3:20), and the Son (John 16:30; 21:17), and the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 2:10-11)
The Father is omnipresent (1 Kings 8:27; Ps 137:8-18), and the Son (Matt 18:20), and the Holy Spirit. (Ps 137:7)
The Father is omnipotent (Dan 4:35), and the Son (Matt 28:18; John 17:10), and the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 40:12-15)

Trinity: a tripersonal being (one being with three distinct minds)
God: the divine nature, namely, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, all-loving, etc.
God: definition 2: any person who possesses divine nature. [Illustration: a scoop of flour is not the whole bag of flour, just as God the Son is not the entire Trinity, and yet, the scoop of flour is by nature flour, just like the whole bag of flour, and so to, God the Son is still by nature God, just like the entire trinity. He is part of the being that has that nature]

Isaiah 46:9 says there is no one like God, but Jesus is so much like Him that if you see Him you see the Father. (John 14:9) Jesus was worshiped even though worship only belongs to God. (Heb 1:6; Matt 2:11; 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 28:9, 17; John 9:38)

Isaiah 40:3 speaks about preparing the way for the LORD (Yahweh). When we compare this verse with Mark 1:3 we see that Jesus is the LORD who had the way prepared for him by John the Baptist.

In Joel 2:32a it says that whoever calls upon the Name of the LORD (Yahweh) will be saved. This verse is quoted by Peter in Acts 2:21, and by Paul in Romans 10:13. Both apostles are clearly referring to Jesus as the LORD.

In Isaiah 6:1-10 we read about the marvelous vision that Isaiah had revealing the glory of the LORD (Yahweh). John tells us in John 12:40-41 that this vision revealed the glory of Jesus.

In Isaiah 44:6, the LORD (Yahweh) refers to himself as "the First and the Last". In Revelation 1:8 and 17, Jesus similarly refers to himself as "the Alpha and the Omega" and "the First and the Last".

I look forward to seeing how you will show this evidence is not valid. You may try, but I'm sure you will fail, because the Trinity is so well established in the Bible, and this entails that Jesus Christ is God. I have proven Jesus is God in the context of the Trinity. Let me see how my opponent responds.
Debate Round No. 1


Thiest_1998 forfeited this round.


Yes, as I predicted, he forfeited. My opponent has no case.
Debate Round No. 2


Also if Jesus is God why didn't he tell people to worship him.


I didn't claim that Deuteronomy 4:35 and Isaiah 43:10-11 say that Jesus is God. What I said was "The Scriptures proclaim that there is one, and only one God in all of existence. (Deu 4:35; Isa 43:10-11; 44:6, 8; 45:5-6, 14, 21-22; 46:9; Mal 2:10; Rom 3:30; 1 Cor 8:6; Eph 4:6; Jam 2:19)." You cannot refute that Deuteronomy 4:35 and Isaiah 43:10-11 say that there is only one God, that is the point of all these passages. That's my first premise, that there is only one God. My second premise is established by other passages such as John 20:28; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-10; Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13 and others, showing that Jesus called God in the Bible. Now, since there is only one God, then either Jesus is this one God, or he is another God, meaning that all those passages which say there is only one God are all wrong. Since they cannot be all wrong, because God doesn't contradict himself, then Jesus must be God. Further, the Bible says there is only one true God (John 17:3), which makes all other gods false; so if, when the Bible calls Jesus "God," you claim that he is ANOTHER God beside the true God, then you would actually be saying Jesus is a false god. So if he is not another God besides the true God, then he is the true God! Since no false god could be out Savior, Jesus must truly be God!

Now, to explain Thomas confession of faith where he called Jesus "my God" in John 20:28, you went to John 20:31, but John 20:31 is not an explanation of Thomas' statement in John 20:28. Rather, John 20:31 is an explanation of the miracles (signs) that Jesus performed. John 20:30-31 says: "Jesus performed many other signs (miracles) in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." So all this is saying, is that Jesus did many signs (miracles) that are not recorded in the book of John, but these miracles are recorded in this book, are recorded to show that Jesus is the Son of God and the Christ (Messiah). So this is not trying to say that Thomas called him "my God" to show that he was the Son of God. Thomas called him "my God" because he was his God, Just as you would agree that Thomas called him "my Lord" because he was his Lord.

If Thomas was wrong, and Jesus was not his God, Jesus would have rebuked Thomas for blasphemy; but Jesus accepted it, and pronounced a blessing on such a confession of faith in him as my Lord and my God. In fact, the term "my God" that is used in John 20:28 has one, and only one consistent meaning throughout the rest of the entire Bible. It always, without exception, refers to the True God; so why should we change the meaning of "my God" in John 20:28 to fit your theology?

You are making the false assumption that if Jesus is the Son of God, that he cannot also be God. But that's all this is, your assumption. I accept all of what the Bible says. The Bible calls him both God, and the Son, just like in Isaiah 9:6 he is called a son, a child, and yet he is called mighty God, and eternal Father. I believe this by faith. I don't reject something just because it might not be easy to understand how its possible. I don't understand how God hears millions of prays at the same time without getting confused, but I trust that God is able to do it. Jesus said he would resurrect himself from the dead in John 2:19-22. How does a dead man raise himself? Yet, when he was raised from the dead, his disciples believed him, and so do I.

You said in your video on YouTube that you don't see how its possible or even logical for Jesus to be both God and the Son of God at the same time. So, think about what you are saying: if you can't comprehend how it's possible, therefore, its not true. Is truth determined by your ability to comprehend? Scientists can't fully comprehend how the human brain works, and neither do you, but surely you don't think that the brain doesn't exist! So how could you say that a trinity cannot exist just because you don't comprehend how it's possible? Many things that are not logical to many people turn out to be true. It's not logical to many people that a loving God would allow so much suffering on this earth, but that doesn't make it true. Many people think its irrational that a God who is all-powerful and wants us to know him would not give us better evidence than a 2000 year old book! They think God would write his name among the starts, or part the Red Sea once a year, or give us some scientifically verified resurrections today so that we would know he is real. Yet, the situation is what it is, and none of this stops us from believing the Bible, does it? Our minds can't even comprehend the concept of not having a beginning, yet Psalm 90:2 tells us God has no beginning. Amazing, while you claim Jesus was created, Hebrews 7:3 tells us that Jesus is without beginning of days or end of life. So my claim is that if many things in the Bible which seem illogical to many people out there are nevertheless true, and you don't say they are false just because many people think they are irrational, then why should the rest of us reject the belief that Jesus is God just because it seems irrational to you?

It seems not only irrational, but cruel to some people, that God would command the slaughter of women and children, even little babies (1 Sam 15:3), or kill a man just for picking up sticks on a certain day (Num 15:32-36), or command a man to kill his own Son (Gen 22:1-2). Yet, as irrational as these things seem to some people, the Bible records all these things as facts. So if Jesus being both God, and the Son of God seems irrational to you, that doesn't make it false. You are just one out of many, many, many other people out there who think that some of the teachings in the Bible don't make sense to them, and so you either reject the Bible, or re-interpret what it says to fit the theology that suits you. I am a son of man, yet, I am also man (that is, human); similarly, Jesus being the Son of God, is also God, inasmuch as he has the same exact nature as God the Father.

The Greek word for "onlybegotten" at John 3:16 is monogenes, which means "only one of a kind." It has nothing to do with being created; its simply saying that as the God-man, and second divine person, Jesus is unique. ""The translation "only-begotten" is inferior to "unique." It was thought that the term came from monoV (monos), meaning "only" and gennaw (gennao), meaning "begotten." However, further research has determined that the term is derived not from gennaw but from genos), meaning "kind" or "type." Hence the better translation, "unique" or "one of a kind."" See Louw and Nida, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains (1988) p. 591; Newman and Nida, A Translator"s Handbook on the Gospel of John, 1980, p. 24; and Moulton and Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament, 1930, pp. 416-417.

At Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is called Abraham"s "only-begotten son." Since Isaac was not the only son born to Abraham23. , it is clear from the context of Hebrews 11 that Isaac is called Abraham"s "only-begotten" in the sense of his uniqueness as God"s covenant purposes were to be carried out through Isaac and his descendants. In the same way, Jesus is called the "only-begotten" Son of God in the sense of His uniqueness as the second person of the Triune God. The New Englishman"s Greek Concordance and Lexicon provides the following meaning for monogenese: ""only-begotten, unique, one of its special kind." (p.579)

So only-begotten doesn't prove Jesus is created. Hebrew 7:3 says Jesus is "without beginning of days or end of life." John 1:3 says that he created ALL THINGS, and nothing was made without his action, which means he can't be a created being, because if he was, then at least one thing (himself) was made without his help. Hebrews 7:3 would be a lie if Jesus was created.
Debate Round No. 3


I refuted all of the scriptures you gave me to say that Jesus is God and you're getting upset at me for believe


You didn't refute anything. You quoted about 2 or 3 verses that I gave, didn't respond to the points I made, and went off on a tangent about John 3:16. You gave me a youtube video on John 3:16, I have one for your viewing pleasure as well. I hope you will make response to it as I took the time to actually listen to yours and make reply. Proof that John 3:16 doesn't refute the Deity of Christ

The Greek word translated as "only begotten" is monogenes. That particular word is used several times in Scripture and particularly of Jesus in John's writings. Monogenes is a compound word made up of two other words. The King James Version translators liked to translate word-for-word when possible. So when they came to the compound word monogenes, they translated mono as "only" and genes as "begotten."

There's no question about monos being the equivalent of "only." It's the genes part of that word which needs some reflection. Some have assumed it comes from a Greek word which means "give birth" or "beget." Others says that last half of monogenes comes from the Greek noun genos which most often means "kind" or "type." Thus, many modern translations will use the phrase "one and only" or "one of a kind" in passages like John 3:16.

Some scholars see monogenes as a strengthened form of monos meaning "alone," "unique," and "incomparable." In support of this is the way the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) renders Psalm 25:16, "Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely (monogenes) and afflicted" (NASB). In this passage monogenes clearly means "alone" rather having anything to do with descent. It means "the only kin or kind," hence, "the only." In John 3:16 "begotten" does not mean generated or created. "Begotten" is instead a reference to a relationship without reference to origin.

In his book Mere Christianity, C.S Lewis says:
"To beget is to become the father of something; to create is to make something. When you beget something you beget something that is the same kind as yourself. A man begets human babies, and beaver begets beavers, and a bird begets eggs that become baby birds. But when you make, you make of a kind different from yourself. Birds make nests, beavers make dams, a man makes a wireless set. . . What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God; just as what man creates is not man."

Lewis is saying that if God "begat" Jesus, then Jesus was God. If John did not mean equality in terms of essence, mind and heart, he would have said God created Jesus. Does it say anywhere in Scripture that God "created" Jesus? NO! When used of Christ, "only begotten" means "unique" and "only beloved." Only begotten expresses Christ's eternal union with the Father in the Godhead. What monogenes does is to direct our attention to God's character, will, love and grace as it is conveyed in the person of Jesus Christ.

As for WORSHIPPING Jesus. You asked me about worship of Jesus. Jesus was worshipped by angels and his disciples.

No one else but God is worshipped in the Bible.

In Isaiah 42:8 God says, "I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to anyone else." (NLT)

In Exodus 20:3 God tells us to worship is only for the true God: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (KJV)

Jesus is worshipped as God:

John 20:28 (Accepted worship from Thomas) - "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." (KJV)

Hebrews 1:6 (All the angels are told to worship Jesus) - "And then, when he presented his honored Son to the world, God said, "Let all the angels of God worship him." (NLT)

Matthew 2:11 - (Wise men worshipped Jesus) - "They entered the house where the child and his mother, Mary, were, and they fell down before him and worshipped him." (NLT)

Matthew 8:2 - (A leper worshipped Jesus) -"And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying 'Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.'" (KJV)

Matthew 9:18 (A ruler bowed in worship.) -"As Jesus was saying this, the leader of a synagogue came and knelt down [worshipped] before him and said..." (NLT)

John 9:38 (A blind man worshipped Him.) - "And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him." (KJV)

Remember, God has commanded that only God is to be worshipped. There are no exceptions.

In Exodus 34:14 God says: "For you shall not worship any other God, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (NLT)

Notice that Exodus 34:14 does not indicate there are different kinds of worship. It plainly, and straight out says that we are not to worship any other gods. No worship, of anyone else, no matter what kind of worship, is allowed. Worship, of any kind, may ONLY be directed toward God. Yet Jesus is worshipped over and over. The Bible (God's word) never condemns the worship of Jesus. Worship of Jesus is always accepted as right, acceptable and correct.

Matthew 15:25 (A woman worshipped Him.) - "Then came she and worshipped him, saying, "Lord, help me." (KJV)

Matthew 28:9 (Mary Magdalene worshipped Him.) - "And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him." (KJV)

Matthew 28:17 (The disciples worshipped Him.) - "And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted." (KJV)

In every case above the Greek word "proskuneo" is used and is translated as worshipped. This is the very same word used to talk about worshipping the Father in the New Testament.

In every case Jesus accepted worship as perfectly appropriate, admitting that he was worthy of worship and thus admitting He is God. In no other instance in the Bible is anyone but God allowed to receive worship. For example:

Throughout the Old Testament Israel is repeatedly punished for worshipping "gods" other than God. A major theme throughout the Old Testament is that of Israel turning to worship other "gods" and as a result God turning away from them.

In Acts 14:11 Paul and Barnabas reject the worship of a crowd that was prepared to worship them.

In Revelation 22:8-9 we read: "I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, 'Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.'" (NLT)

Only God is worshipped. Jesus is worshipped as God many times, and never rejects worship, nor does the Bible in any place condemn worship of Jesus as God. Thus Jesus is God.

Jesus is also prayed to in the Bible:
If you were to say, "Father receive my spirit," who would you be praying to? The Father, right?

If you were to say, "Jesus receive my spirit," who would you be praying to? Jesus.

In Acts 7:59, Stephen, while full of the Holy Spirit (v. 55), prayed to Jesus:

And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." (See also Acts 9:14; Rom. 10:13.)

See also 1 Cor. 1:1-2 with Psalm 116:4 where calling upon the name of the Lord is prayer and prayer is addressed to Jesus by the Corinthian church.

Jesus also said in John 14:14 "anything you ASK ME in my name, I will do it." (NIV)

So no, I didn't get angry at you, because I know you are speaking out of ignorance. You need to learn the Scriptures. I have shown you. Now, if you don't believe, I bear no blood guilt before God. I have given you the truth of God's word, and what you do with it is up to you.
Debate Round No. 4


Thiest_1998 forfeited this round.


another ff, no surprize
Debate Round No. 5
44 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by lightseeker 1 year ago
God doesn't beget children. no need. stop using your changed book as reference. if you want to do that, you should prove that those books are actually words of God. but no one is saying that. NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS. someone could easily slip a few words or remove a few (or a lot). you like vine? sure let's slip that inside the books. you don't like circumcision? sure, let's remove that from the book. ... Jesus shouldn't be taken as role model? sure, let's make him God, because God, can not be taken as role models for humans, it's impossible. look at Pope, he's nothing like Jesus, he lives in palaces, wears golden hats, has a golden cane ... like Jesus? hell no, because he's human. right?
Posted by TheWORDisLIFE 1 year ago

Psalms 110:1 The LORD said vnto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand: vntil I make thine enemies thy footestoole.

There are two Lord's David is talking about here. Who is known to sit at the right hand of The Most High God? Christ sit's at the right hand of The Most High God.

Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken vnto them, he was receiued vp into heauen, and sate on the right hand of God.

So if Christ is The Most High God, how can The Most High God sit next to himself????

You modern day "Christians" have no common sense. You don't believe anything that the Bible says, you believe what man says. If man tells you that Christ was born of a woman only, you will believe that. If man tells you that the laws are done away with, you are now under "grace," you will believe that too.
Posted by TheWORDisLIFE 1 year ago

"Firstly, John 1:1 does not say the Word was "a god," it says "the Word was God." Second, you reject the idea that God was with God because TO YOU it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE."

I don't think it makes sense to anyone. Also, as you stated, it's the IDEA that God was with God. Do you know the meaning of "idea"?

"So, the One God being in two places at the same time doesn't make sense and thus you conclude that its false? You are not walking by faith my friend. Zephaniah 2:8-11 says that Yahweh is speaking, and Yahweh says he was SENT BY YAHWEH."

So God sent himself???

"God sent by God. Clearly, God the Father is with God the Son in John 1:1, just as God the Father sent God the Son in Zephaniah 2:8-11."

Ok, now you are talking about two people. God the FATHER is one person and God the SON is another person. Just like you and your father are two people. So what is it? Is Jesus The Most High God or is Jesus the Son of God? Which one?

"Things don't have to make sense TO YOU to be true. I'm sure Abraham didn't feel like it made sense for a God of love to ask him to kill his son. But he was willing to do it anyway. I seems logical that something can't be in two places at once, but scientists now know that a particle can be in many places at the same time."

Nowhere in Scripture does it say God can be in two places at one time.

" So many things that don't make sense to YOU are actually true. If God says the Word was God, I believe Him; if she says the Word was WITH God, I believe that too, and if he says there is only one God, I believe that too. I am humble enough to trust God even if I don't fully comprehend everything. Are you?"

Yup. Question.
If Christ was the first creation of GOD as Prov 8:22-36 says, how could he be The Most High God if The Most High GOD created him? Did GOD create himself???? Do you see how stupid the "Christian" IDEA of Jesus being the LORD is? It makes no sense.
Posted by daley 1 year ago
I will respond to this matter about worshipping Jesus in my next round.
Posted by lightseeker 1 year ago
... to marry his daughter. does it no mean that the girl was deemed ready to be married? and girls mature faster in hotter climates.

"Jesus came in the name of Yahweh, the same name proclaimed by Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and all the other prophets before him"

well do you have scripts of those other prophets? or you're just citing from bible again?
Yahweh is a Hebrew word that means god, and Allah is an Arabic word that means God. what kind of point does that prove?

"Jesus has been more influential that any man in history" i wonder what does it mean to have influence? Christians had eras of witch hunting, started world war one and two, have killed more than all the other religions combined, you guys dropped nuclear bombs in japan, burned Vietnam to the ground, supported Saddam Hussein, ... . if Jesus was a prophet of peace, how come his followers are so savage? it seems that he hasn't been that influential to begin with.

"Even the Quaran testifies to the fact that Jesus was indeed virgin born and ascended to heaven" if you are using Quran, why don't u also use the verse that says "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." or this one "And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!" or this one "And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden."
Posted by lightseeker 1 year ago
"Jesus was born of a virgin". well tell me, is God born or is it eternal? if he needed a mother to be born from, does that make his mother also god? how can god be born from human? does god need to eat and sleep? does he need to worship God?

"Muhammad sinned"
can you be more specific about that?

"Jesus performed miracles like raising the dead and healing the sick"
is that historically provable or you are using your bible again to prove that?
the biggest miracle of Muhammad is his book, Quran. since Muhammad was illiterate and did not learn reading or writing from any human, bringing such a book that after 1400 years no one could mimic and bring something similar, shown the divinity of it. Quran invites all people of the world to try and bring a book just like it. a book that is consistent from start to finish, guides people to the light, tells the story of past and future and creation of universe. tells the story of Jesus and Moses and other prophets more complete and more sensible than any other book that people claim to be divine. a book that if you are an Arab and listen to it, it draws you so heavily that people of that time claimed it to be witchcraft. its a book that god has sent to guide people until the day of judgement and there is no contradiction or conflict in it.

and other inferior miracles of Muhammad can be mentioned as: "splitting the moon (just send NASA to take a look at the other side of the moon, you prob will be able to see a straight line there), reviving the dead, healing the sick, ordering the tree to move to him, ..." which dont matter that much

prophecy: things like revolution of Iran, forming Israel, destruction if Syria and Iraq, spread of adultery and homosexuality, forming ISIS, the war in Yemen ...

"Jesus was morally pure, Muhammad married a 9 year old girl, pedophile". there are different claims about the age of Aisha when she married Muhammad, and it varies between 9 and 19. yet Aisha's father asked Muhammad to ma
Posted by daley 1 year ago
Jesus was born of a virgin, Muhammad was born naturally, Jesus never sinned, Muhammad did, Jesus performed miracles like raising the dead and healing the sick, Muhammad did none, Jesus prophesied things that came to pass such as the destruction of Jerusalem which occurred in 70 CE in the exact same way he said it would happen, where are Muhammad's prophecies? Jesus was morally pure, Muhammad married a 9 year old girl, pedophile; Jesus came in the name of Yahweh, the same name proclaimed by Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and all the other prophets before him; Muhammad never used the name Yahweh, its not in the Quaran. Jesus has been more influential that any man in history, even the world's calendar system of AD counts from the time of his birth. No, do not even compare him to Muhammad. Even the Quaran testifies to the fact that Jesus was indeed virgin born and ascended to heaven, and the Quaran says it was written to confirm what precedes it in the Torah, Pslams and Gospels. So Muhammad was only building on, but deviated from, the foundation Jesus set. He can't be greater than Jesus Christ.
Posted by lightseeker 1 year ago
well daley, i am not a christian, so using the bible that you have to prove the point the he is son on god, does not make any sense to me. because if you believe in god, and you believe that he sent prophets to guide people, why do you accept one prophet and reject the other? the reasons to prove Muhammad actually existed and was a prophet of God are far stronger than the reason to believe Jesus existed in the first place (though i believe in him as a great prophet because he is mentioned in Quran and tradition)? if faith means to be obedient to god, how can you ignore the last prophet and his household? and Muhammad was mentioned in bible as well (at least in the unchanged bible). dont you have a phrase in bible saying something like this? "and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward."
Posted by daley 1 year ago
@lightseeker, you said: "that is why some people mistakenly take them and worship them as god,"

So did God make a mistake when he told the angels to WORSHIP (proskyneo, same word Jesus used in Matthew 4:10 for the worship of God) Jesus in Hebrews 1:6? Was Jesus wrong for accepting the Worship of his disciples in Matthew 28:9, 17? Did these disciples make the mistake you are talking about? At the end of the day, you can say all you like, but I challenge you to prove it in a debate.
Posted by daley 1 year ago
@TheWORDisLIFE; you said: "Wow, daley, this should be common sense if you are actually reading the Scripture. This is the reason why precept MUST be upon precept (Is 28:10). Jesus is the Word, yes? And now you claim that He is the Most High God, yes? Ok, if Christ is God, how can God be WITH God if there is only one God? Does that make any sense? With is a word that shows separation. If you are with someone that means you are being accompanied by another person. So in this verse Jesus is WITH God, and He is a God, but HE is not the Most High God. Jesus was the first of all creations; He was there from the very beginning and He was WITH God, The Most High God, from the very beginning."

Firstly, John 1:1 does not say the Word was "a god," it says "the Word was God." Second, you reject the idea that God was with God because TO YOU it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. So, the One God being in two places at the same time doesn't make sense and thus you conclude that its false? You are not walking by faith my friend. Zephaniah 2:8-11 says that Yahweh is speaking, and Yahweh says he was SENT BY YAHWEH. God sent by God. Clearly, God the Father is with God the Son in John 1:1, just as God the Father sent God the Son in Zephaniah 2:8-11. Things don't have to make sense TO YOU to be true. I'm sure Abraham didn't feel like it made sense for a God of love to ask him to kill his son. But he was willing to do it anyway. I seems logical that something can't be in two places at once, but scientists now know that a particle can be in many places at the same time. So many things that don't make sense to YOU are actually true. If God says the Word was God, I believe Him; if she says the Word was WITH God, I believe that too, and if he says there is only one God, I believe that too. I am humble enough to trust God even if I don't fully comprehend everything. Are you?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lord_megatron 1 year ago
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited 2 rounds, and his only argument was that if Jesus was God why didn't he tell people to worship him, which was easily rebutted.