The Instigator
CapAhab
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
moneystacker
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Jesus was a false prophet

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
CapAhab
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/3/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 484 times Debate No: 86022
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

CapAhab

Pro

Round 1 - Acceptance, Opening Statements, and Questions Only
Round 2 - Opening Arguments Only (No rebuttals)
Round 3 - Rebuttals Only
Round 4 - Counter-Rebuttals
Round 5 - Closing Arguments and Closing Statements

Burden of the proof is on me. The Hebrew Bible will be the only authoritative Word of G-d. The New testament can be use to prove a point...

Original Hebrew will be consider as authoritative in case of mistranslation. Old testament is considered the Word of G-d. New Testament can be used as reference, but is not authoritative.
moneystacker

Con

I accept and will be using my KJV bible since that's all I have however i will of course look up certian scriptures for the translation and such.
Debate Round No. 1
CapAhab

Pro

I would first like to thank my opponent for this debate. My opponent may refer to Blue Letter Bible for original interlinear Hebrew.

First I will define who is a false Prophet. There is 2 ways we can know if a prophet is a false prophet. First, if the prophecy does not come to pass, that prophet is a false prophet.

when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. Deu 18:22

Second, if the prophecy comes to pass, but that prophet entice you to worship another god, who is not YVHV.

13 "If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, "Let us go after other gods," which you have not known, "and let us serve them," 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. 5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil[a] from your midst.

6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

In the first intense, Jesus prophecy failed at least twice:

Mat 16:28 say:
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

This Bible verse refers to "Daniel 7:13-14"
and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him. 14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

The only logical interpretation of that verse is to see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven as Daniel 7 say. Nevertheless, because all the people present when Jesus said that are dead, this prophecy has not come to pass and this is a false prophecy.

The second is Mark 14:61-62
But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?" "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Again, referring to the same event, that specific High Priest never saw Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven, and in case anyone doubt it,... he is dead since about 2000 years.

My opponent will tell you that Jesus prophesied the second temple destruction. Nevertheless, those NT manuscript were written after the destruction of the second temple and those event could have being added by the anonymous authors of the gospels.

Second, we should not listen to prophets even if the event comes to pass if he ask to worship another god. How can we know if Jesus is a new arrival god as Deut 32:17 described "gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not."? If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, Did any of the disciples' parent worshipped Jesus? The answer is NO.

My opponent might say that G-d is a Trinity, but it is clear if you look at those verses that He is not:

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is ONE! Deuteronomy 6:1

19. Zechariah 14:9 " And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

But let us first look at the verse showing G-d is one and alone.

THERE IS NONE OTHER LIKE THE LORD
Exodus 8:10
Then he said, "Tomorrow." So he said, "May it be according to your word, that you may know that there is no one like the LORD our God.

THERE IS NONE BESIDE HIM.
Deuteronomy 4:35
"To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.
Deuteronomy 32:12
"The LORD alone guided him, And there was no foreign god with him.
Deuteronomy 32:39
'See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.
Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.
Isaiah 45:5
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me;
Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble and do not be afraid; Have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none.'"
Isaiah 45:6
That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other,
18. Joel 2:27 " And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

THERE IS NO OTHER gods
Deuteronomy 4:39
"Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.
Isaiah 43:10
"You are My witnesses," declares the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
Isaiah 45:14
Thus says the LORD, "The products of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush And the Sabeans, men of stature, Will come over to you and will be yours; They will walk behind you, they will come over in chains And will bow down to you; They will make supplication to you: 'Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God.'"

No other are like HIM.
Exodus 9:14
"For this time I will send all My plagues on you and your servants and your people, so that you may know that there is no one like Me in all the earth.
1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD, Indeed, there is no one besides You, Nor is there any rock like our God.
Isaiah 46:9
"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me,

Finally, look at 2 Thessalonians 2:4:

He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God

Jesus (the mainstream Christianity one at least) did exactly that; exalting himself over G-d.

Thus, Jesus should be viewed as a false prophet.
moneystacker

Con

Observation: Now my opponent starts by pointing out how to define a false prophet and yes there is many scriptures that support the existence of false prophets. I have one below for an example. We agree on the fact that false prophets exist. Thus this is simply an observation.
2 Peter 2:1 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Later he claims Jesus fails with this prophecy
Mat 16:28 say:
"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Explanation: from Mathews 21-28 Jesus foretells his death and resurrection and in fact his death happens...
John 19 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him. And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe, And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

John 19:30- When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Explanation: Viewers read all of John 19 it pretty much goes on and on. Not only does it state this happens but it shows details of the horrific event that took place.
and then his resurrection happens...
Mark 16: And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were afforded. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.



Next because of his death we have a new way to Christ. I explained this in another debate....

Baptism
Baptism is not an option; there is no such thing in the Bible as a Christian who was not baptized.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

If you're not willing to be baptized the bible way, you can't get into the kingdom, but now I will show you how you must use the name of Jesus.


Sub point A: You must be immersed in water
Because Jesus was baptized by immersion
Because every baptism in the Bible is by immersion
Because that's precisely what the word baptism means
Because it is the best portrayal of a burial and resurrection

Sub point B: You must be baptized in Jesus name
Every baptism in acts was performed in Jesus' name.

THE DAY OF PENTECOST: Acts 2:38- be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins

THE SAMARITANS: Acts 8:16- they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

THE HOUSE OF CORNELIUS: Acts 10:48- he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord

THE DISCIPLES OF JOHN: Acts 19:5- they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Holy ghost

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one spirit

  • Basically if you want to be in the body of Christ, you must receive the Holy Spirit.

  • Romans 8:14-16 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

  • You know you have received the Holy Ghost by speaking in tongues.

  • Scriptures for this= Isaiah 28-with stammering lips and another tongues

  • Joel 2- I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh

  • Acts 2- Jewish disciples on the Day of Pentecost

  • Acts 10

  • Acts 19- disciples of John the Baptist

  • Mark 16-17

  • John 7:38


Some of that was off topic but it was just to show that God didn't send his son to die for no reason... but now to prove Jesus is the son of God.

. Jesus Christ was both divine and human.

He was 100% human and 100% deity.
scriptural evidence=
Philippians 2:5-15=Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Hebrews 4:4-16 for the sake of characters I can't list the whole thing.


I will now kind of go through Jesus history sort of and focus on certain aspects of it

At 12 years of age, Jesus knew He was the son of God.

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Jesus lived by the Word and His understanding was based upon the word. He was also of course a son of God

Later at 30 years of age, Jesus was baptized, and the Father spoke from heaven. Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him. and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Conclusion: If that isn't evidence of Jesus being the son of god then idk what is.

Then Jesus went to his hometown
Heaven was his divine hometown, but Nazareth was his human hometown. Don't forget 100% human and 100% deity.

Jesus then opened the word
Luke 4:18-19 The spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sigh to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

And in his hometown
Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. Luke 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ear. Luke 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceed out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Luke 4:31-34 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the Sabbath days. And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice, Saying, Let [us] alone; what have we to do with thee, [thou] Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy one of God.

Conclusion: so yeah even the demons acknowledge that he is the son of God.


Next you bring up a bunch of scriptures saying there is no other god... well Jesus 100% deity 100% man... He is 100% God but also 100% man.

You claim placed himself above God but I clearly demonstrated how Jesus was obedient and died on the cross..... Next I demonstrate that he is 100% GOD. Key word 100% GOD He is 100% GOD and 100% man he can't go against God because he is GOD.

John 1:14- And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Next I don't get your claim about the scriptures not applying to the 2nd coming/ end of the world and such. Would you to explain it more.

Debate Round No. 2
CapAhab

Pro

"Explanation: from Mathews 21-28 Jesus foretells his death and resurrection and in fact his death happens..."

No, the son of man coming in his kingdom, means Jesus coming in his kingdom and fulfilling the messianic era. That would mean his coming back and establishing his millennial kingdom.

"To him was given dominion
and glory and kingship,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
that shall not pass away,
and his kingship is one
that shall never be destroyed." Daniel 7

This is clear it talks about Jesus coming in his kingdom, not his death on the cross.

Next you bring up a bunch of scriptures saying there is no other god... well Jesus 100% deity 100% man... He is 100% God but also 100% man.

Now my opponent to prove that Jesus was god showed from the Hebrew scripture Isaiah 9

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

First it does not refer to Jesus. Let us look at the continuation of Isaiah 9:

The Lord sent a word against Jacob,
And it has fallen on Israel.
9 All the people will know"
Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria"
Who say in pride and arrogance of heart:
10 "The bricks have fallen down,
But we will rebuild with hewn stones;
The sycamores are cut down,
But we will replace them with cedars."
11 Therefore the Lord shall set up
The adversaries of Rezin against him,
And spur his enemies on,

This is a continuation of Isaiah 7, where Israel and Syria will be defeated. (See the king Rezin of Syria), and compare to Isaiah 7: ow it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up to Jerusalem to make war against it, but could not prevail against it.

Because Israel (nothern kindom) was still in the land, G-d send someone. Many people were called after G-d, and it does not mean that this individual will be a god in the flesh. That son born to us (Judah) was Hezekiah.

Furthermore, that born was already born when that prophecy was said due to the tense of the verb:

For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder,
http://www.chabad.org...

The other statment were from the New Testament and are not Authoritative for this debate.

Finally, my opponent did not refute this false prophecy of Jesus: said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

My argument still stands, Jesus was a false prophet as per the Hebrew Bible.
moneystacker

Con

moneystacker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
CapAhab

Pro

I will wait for my opponent for next round.
moneystacker

Con

moneystacker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
CapAhab

Pro

My argument still stands, Jesus was a false prophet as per the Hebrew Bible.
moneystacker

Con

moneystacker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by moneystacker 1 year ago
moneystacker
Just a btw I wasn't responding to your Daniels verse but your Mathews one. That's why I said Mathews 21-28
Posted by moneystacker 1 year ago
moneystacker
Wow fast response. I have homework and stuff so I'll respond tommorow
Posted by CapAhab 1 year ago
CapAhab
Yes you may. Original Hebrew will be consider as authoritative in case of mistranslation. Old testament is considered the Word of G-d. New Testament can be used as reference, but is not authoritative.
Posted by moneystacker 1 year ago
moneystacker
if so i'll debate this.
Posted by moneystacker 1 year ago
moneystacker
can I use my KJV bible? I just want to be sure.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
CapAhabmoneystackerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Three forfeited turns by Con.