The Instigator
Gaurdian_Rock
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
TheUnapologeticTruth
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Jimi Hendrix is the best guitar player ever

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
TheUnapologeticTruth
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/8/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,019 times Debate No: 35406
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

Gaurdian_Rock

Pro

First round for accept
TheUnapologeticTruth

Con

I normally don"t like arguments that are formed solely on one"s opinion. Opinions are based on emotions and feelings so it really doesn"t matter what I say to dissuade my opponent because his mind is already made up. Having said that, I took this debate simply because I"m tired of hearing that, Jimi Hendrix is the "greatest guitar player ever".

I would like to know what my opponent defines as the "greatest guitar player". What are your parameters or criteria? I will say that I love his music but I would define him as the greatest guitarist of all time. I would define the "greatest guitarist" as someone who has a complete grasp and understanding of their instrument. This includes the ability to play any scale and technique with a great deal of finesse and creativeness. As for Jimi, all we have to argue on is what skills/techniques did he demonstrate in his music? Forget that he was an "innovator" a "revolutionary" because that is not this debate. The question at hand is, is he the most skilled player of the guitar in history? To that I say no based on what is observable in his songs.

Now either A) he couldn't"t do incredible sweeps and seamlessly move from scale to scale or play incredible fast like Malmsteen or Michael Angelo Batio or B) he simply chose not to because he liked his particular style and chose not to. Which is fine but his speed and technical ability are unproven.

As a guitarist myself some of the first songs I learned were from Jimi Hendrix. They aren"t hard to play and neither are the solos to most of his stuff which is fine because it still sounds great and I love his tunes but that does not make him the greatest guitarist.
I can play Jimi"s stuff but no way in heck am I at the level of Malmsteen or Batio. By that fact alone the title of "greatest guitarist" should not belong to Jimi. Without trying to be too controversial, I do believe a lot of the stigma has to do with him dying so young and him being black. For some reason we all feel better in America when blacks rise above whites in anything. That"s just my opinion based on my observations.

Watch these videos and ask yourself this. Can these guys play Jimi Hendrix stuff? Of course! But can Jimi do what they do? Has he ever demonstrated that ability? No.
Debate Round No. 1
Gaurdian_Rock

Pro




I thank my opponent for accepting this debate, I wish he had listened to what I said in round one and I am willing to overlook it, and I ask he not give an argument in the last round.


Now, I would like to say that I am not arguing from my opinion, but a fact, personally I favor David Gilmour.


I present my main body of evidence: http://www.rollingstone.com...;


Now as we all know Rolling Stone magazine is possibly the most trustworthy music, and pop culture source in the US today.


Innovations:


Despite what my opponent has said about these “not be related” I find skill and ability to be a very similar thing, the ability to innovate comes with skill and natural talent, nobody can just wake up and say “hey today I’m going to change the world of rock.” Innovations can not only help change music, but can also describe the musician’s skill with said instrument.


Versatility:


Nobody can argue that Hendrix was an extremely universal guitar player, his ability’s ranged from smooth jazz the some of the heaviest rock. Whereas guitarists like Angelo and Malmsteen seemed to be stuck in their own genre of music and unable to escape from it.


Rebuttals:


“As a guitarist myself some of the first songs I learned were from Jimi Hendrix. They aren’t hard to play and neither are the solos”


Okay, NOT HARD TO PLAY? When you post a video of you playing your guitar with your ‘teeth, then I’ll believe that.


“By that fact alone the title of "greatest guitarist" should not belong to Jimi.


You can’t simply hold back the title of greatest guitar player because you are unable to play Angelo and Malmsteen’s music, you inability’s are irrelevant to your case.


“Watch these videos and ask yourself this. Can these guys play Jimi Hendrix stuff? Of course! But can Jimi do what they do? Has he ever demonstrated that ability?


He has actually demonstrated that ability, and I refer you to the video, Jimi Hendrix Guitar God above.


TheUnapologeticTruth

Con

“I wish he had listened to what I said in round one and I am willing to overlook it, and I ask he not give an argument in the last round.”

Ok, this is weird because I did not see and opening argument from you. It was blank and I thought that was weird but posted anyways.

“Now as we all know Rolling Stone magazine is possibly the most trustworthy music, and pop culture source in the US today.”
This has to be a joke right? When Rolling Stone is posting stories on Global Warming you know it’s joke. Not only that but they did not like Led Zeppelin too much back in their day. They even hated many of the songs that came to be some of Led Zeppelin’s most beloved hits. Yeah, that shows how trustworthy and accurate they are.

Led Zeppelin's forte has always been rockin' the blues; if they took themselves seriously they'd realize that they are foolish to step outside that genre.” (1) Hindsights 20/20 on that one right Rolling Stone? It shows LZ’s creative genius and willingness to explore different styles and create timeless rock music!

“The truly original songs on Houses of the Holy again underscore Led Zeppelin's songwriting deficiences… So it is that "Dancing Days," "The Rain Song" and "No Quarter" fall flat on their respective faces..” (1) Again, this is from the same magazine you respect so much?

“D'yer Mak'er" is even worse, a pathetic stab at reggae.. is obnoxiously heavy-handed and totally devoid of the native form's sensibilities.” (1) D’yer Mak’er is one of my favorite LZ songs! It’s also always on the local classic rock station. I guess the writer didn’t understand LZ creative genius and they took reggae and rocked the $H!T out of it!
This proves Rolling Stone has been a joke since the 70’s and should not be considered as the be-all-end-all source for music reviews.

“Despite what my opponent has said about these “not be related” I find skill and ability to be a very similar thing, the ability to innovate comes with skill and natural talent, nobody can just wake up and say “hey today I’m going to change the world of rock.” Innovations can not only help change music, but can also describe the musician’s skill with said instrument.”

This is true I don’t deny his “innovations” and yes it took “skill” and “talent”. He was very good at blues rock. But does that make him the best guitarist? No. Did Henry Ford “revolutionize” and “innovate” automobile manufacturing? Yes, but was the Model T the best car? Was Ford the best car builder of all time? No. Same goes for Dick Fosbury. Did he have incredible skill and innovate/revolutionize the sport of high jumping? Yes. He won Gold in 1968. But is he the “greatest high jumper of all time”? No. So while innovating does take skill, it doesn’t make you the MOST skilled now does it? No.

“Nobody can argue that Hendrix was an extremely universal guitar player” He was fairly universal, but universal doesn’t mean you have the speed or technical ability to play “everything”.

“Whereas guitarists like Angelo and Malmsteen seemed to be stuck in their own genre of music and unable to escape from it.” I could say the same about Jimi now can’t I? However, Malmsteen is also a master of the classical acoustic guitar where as Hendrix wasn’t. You may not like his “style” but you cannot deny his technical ability and speed. This displays a wider skill range than Jimi.

“Okay, NOT HARD TO PLAY? When you post a video of you playing your guitar with your ‘teeth, then I’ll believe that” Irrelevant point. However I can do that and so can many others but I’m not up for the title of greatest guitarist now am I? Plucking a string with your teeth is hardly a qualifier. There’s a guy with no arms who can play with his feet. Does that make him the greatest? No. Can Jimi play a double necked guitar at the same time? Notice how Batio is also able to play hand over the fretboard and cross handed! Did jimi ever demonstrate this? No.

“You can’t simply hold back the title of greatest guitar player because you are unable to play Angelo and Malmsteen’s music, you inability’s are irrelevant to your case.”
What? You just made my case. The inabiltiy to play something HAS to be a disqualifier if you’re trying to be labeled the “greatest guitarist”! And no, that video does not show Jimi playing with the speed and precision of Malmsteen or Batio. He jumps around a lot and does your basic hammer on/pull offs with some slides. That doesn’t prove anything. I won’t deny his showmanship but showmanship doesn’t make you the “best guitar player”.

If Jimi is unable to play Malmsteen or Batio music then yes, that does disqualify him for being labeled as the “greatest guitarist”. Why? Because that means he doesn’t have the skill, speed, or technical abilities that the “greatest guitarist” should posses. That’s kind of like saying the best NFL field goal kicker doesn’t have the highest percentage of kicks made but he “innovated” the “soccer style” now used by every NFL kicker where at the time everyone was still using the straight on “toe poke” style.

BTW, I love “Purple Haze” and crank it every time I hear it on the radio. However, it was also one of the first songs I learned. It’s simple bluesy rock licks. Check out Dragonforce’s guitarist. He’s phenomenal! Could this guy play Jimi? I bet he first learned from Jimi’s songs but could Jimi touch this guy’s skill? No. Again, this isn’t about style or innovations. It’s about who displays the most skill and technical abilities. A guitarist is a musician who plays the guitar. To be the “greatest guitarist” you have to be someone who displays the most skill and ability on said instrument. Was Jimi the best “blues rock guitarist” in his day? You could make that argument but as far as “greatest guitarist of all time”? It’s clear he is not.



(1) http://www.rollingstone.com...



Debate Round No. 2
Gaurdian_Rock

Pro

http://www.youtube.com...

http://www.youtube.com...

I thank my opponent once more for accepting this debate and for his first one, I must say I am impressed with him. However

“Ok, this is weird because I did not see and opening argument from you. It was blank and I thought that was weird but posted anyways.

I’m sorry but what part of “first round for accept” do you not understand here I’ll analyze it with you.

“First round” infers round 1

“Accept” Means to consent

So put it together and you find that the first round if only for consent.

This has to be a joke right? When Rolling Stone is posting stories on Global Warming you know its joke.

Unfortunately I fail to see what a scientific issue has to do with their ability to judge music and pop culture.

“The truly original songs on Houses of the Holy again underscore Led Zeppelin's songwriting deficiencies… So it is that "Dancing Days," "The Rain Song" and "No Quarter" fall flat on their respective faces...” (1) Again, this is from the same magazine you respect so much?

Actually as a huge Zeppelin fan that album to me was a huge disappointment, and most of the songs really did fall flat.

“D'yer Mak'er" is even worse, a pathetic stab at reggae... is obnoxiously heavy-handed and totally devoid of the native form's sensibilities.” (1) D’yer Mak’er is one of my favorite LZ songs! It’s also always on the local classic rock station. I guess the writer didn’t understand LZ creative genius and they took reggae and rocked the $H!T out of it!
This proves Rolling Stone has been a joke since the 70’s and should not be considered as the be-all-end-all source for music reviews.

As bold as my opponent may be, his opinions are hardly enough for me to consider RS as a distrustful source. If you had given more than personal opinions and bold statements, I may have listened to you.

Did Henry Ford “revolutionize” and “innovate” automobile manufacturing? Yes, but was the Model T the best car? Was Ford the best car builder of all time? No. Same goes for Dick Fosbury. Did he have incredible skill and innovate/revolutionize the sport of high jumping? Yes. He won Gold in 1968. But is he the “greatest high jumper of all time”? No.

Umm actually the ford V8 which was the model T is the best car ever… And, umm Fosbury is considered the best high jumper ever.

http://www.edmunds.com...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I could say the same about Jimi now can’t I? However, Malmsteen is also a master of the classical acoustic guitar whereas Hendrix wasn’t. You may not like his “style” but you cannot deny his technical ability and speed. This displays a wider skill range than Jimi.

Okay, you already agreed that he was a universal guitar player. Okay throughout this debate my opponent has been hammering to find evidence that Hendrix could match them, which I found. But has my opponent shown and evidence that THEY could play Hendrix observe the above videos.

If there is one difference besides the double guitar, it’s that in all that commotion Jimi never looks down as his guitar, never. Whereas in the videos my opponent has shown me there eyes are rooted to there guitars, there reason Hendrix was such a god on stage was because he never need to glance at his guitar the music just flowed out of him, to me Angelo and Malmsteen sounded like hard concrete fearing to look up.

Irrelevant point. However I can do that and so can many others but I’m not up for the title of greatest guitarist now am I?

Pics or it didn’t happen

If Jimi is unable to play Malmsteen or Batio music then yes, that does disqualify him for being labeled as the “greatest guitarist”.

I have still yet to see any evidence that either of these musicians could play like Hendrix, if you could, however show me a video of Angelo moving around the stage like Jimi did with a two sided guitar then I will sh!t my pants. And I can make blatant assumptions to ready? So in conclusion could Jimi play Malmsteen? Yes. Could Jimi play Batio? Without a doubt. My opponent does not seem to understand that you need solid evidence to make a case, and while I offered evidence of Jimi’s ability to match there speed my opponent has failed to offer evidence that either one of these musicians could match Jimi’s skill.

And so having refuted my opponents lack luster evidence, I can still safely say that Hendirx is the best guitar player that has ever lived.

I would also like to remind my opponent not to post an argument in round three, it would be against the one rule I had for this debate and against the DDO standard rules, if you post you then drop all arguments and forfeit this debate, so I’ll say it again DO NOT POST IN ROUND 3.

TheUnapologeticTruth

Con

End of debate.


I would just like to remind everyone that it is important to fully read the sources provided and to watch all videos posted by me and my opponent in entirety. That way accurate comparisons can be made.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by rja7 3 years ago
rja7
Couldnt agree more Qandra..but as long as there are different opinions there will always be the debate about who is the greatest.Its quite normal for people to argue about this very topic, regardless of how insignificant it seems!
Posted by QandA 3 years ago
QandA
Rating musicians is just silly and all the players that you mentioned will agree. Music isn't a competition.
Posted by rja7 3 years ago
rja7
Imo jimi is absolutely one of the greatest pioneers in music history..but your right its a matter of taste in music and opinion.I personally like SRV the best, but know he didn't have the impact that E.vanhalen or Hendrix had..And honestly neither hendrix or Vaughn had the ability Eric Johnson has and that's simply because each generation of guitar player surpasses his predecessor .They take what the learn from the greats and create an amalgamation of there own.I can play most SRV and hendrix songs and I'm still doing flooring for a living..lol
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by ModusTollens 3 years ago
ModusTollens
Gaurdian_RockTheUnapologeticTruthTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:14 
Reasons for voting decision: Spelling and grammar to Con for Pro not knowing the difference between "infer" and "imply." Conduct to Pro for Con's failure to leave round 1 to acceptance only. Arguments to Con because Pro's rebuttals to his/her points were ineffectual.