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John Kasich (PRO) VS Donald Trump (CON)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/5/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 268 times Debate No: 94452
Debate Rounds (4)
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Real estate mogul and businessman Donald Trump officially secured the Republican Party presidential nomination last month. I will argue that Ohio governor and former candidate John Kasich is/was a superior option. My opponent will argue in favor of Donald Trump.

ROUND 2: OPENING ARGUMENTS - Provide TWO contentions in support of your candidate and ONE contention against the opposing candidate.

I wish my opponent good luck!


Anime is love... Anime is- Oh! I mean... I accept! :3
Debate Round No. 1


1. More Favorable than Donald Trump (and Hillary Clinton)

a. In every Real Clear Politics poll projecting a Kasich vs Clinton general election, Kasich was shown to have a considerable lead. In fact, his average lead over her was +7.4% [1]. He was the only Republican projected to defeat a Democrat. As of right now, the highest lead Trump has ever held over Clinton was +1.1%, and that was with the use of his convention bounce [2].

b. From March 17-27, the Pew Research Center conducted a poll to determine attitudes toward the 2016 presidential candidates. Only 20% of those sampled said they believed John Kasich would make a poor or terrible president, compared to 46% for Clinton and 60% for Trump [3].

c. A March 16 Bloomberg poll showed that Kasich has a higher net favorability than his primary opponents (Trump and Cruz). His was 14, compared to -23 for Cruz and -39 for Trump [4]. As of today, Clinton has a net favorability of -10.2 and Trump has a net favorability of -26.0 [5] [6].

2. Appeals to Many Types of Voters - And the GOP Establishment
After Mitt Romney lost the 2012 presidential election, the Republican Party was advised: ""We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate that we care about them, too." John Kasich clearly understands this, and rather than pandering to demographics in the hope that the majority will vote for him, he speaks for everyone. Kasich has said that we often blame "people with more money or less money, people with different-sounding last names or different religious beliefs or different-colored skin or lifestyles" for our country's problems. He also said "we are, at the bottom, a country built on the principles of Christianity and Judaism, and yet we make abundant room for Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and every other faith. Good for us. Good for ALL of us. Whoever you are, and whatever your beliefs, you can come and live among us." This appeals primarily to the GOP Establishment [7].

Kasich opposes same-sex marriage, is pro-life (with exceptions), is of Christian faith, and believes in our Western Judeo-Christian values, which appeals to social conservatives [8]. He will not do anything to change or abolish same-sex marriage, which appeals to social progressives who oppose Clinton [7]. He supports immigration reform, which appeals to moderate voters and the GOP Establishment [7] [8]. He supports deregulation, tax cuts, and block-granting food stamps, which appeals to fiscal conservatives [7].

3. Anti-Trump Contention
It's common knowledge that Trump has said and done some controversial things over his years in the public eye that do not equate to 'presidential behavior'. In the early 1970's, the Trump Organization was sued - twice - by the Justice Department for not renting to African Americans. In 1992, the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino was fined $200,000 for removing African American card dealers "at the request of a certain big-spending gambler." A former 1980's Trump's Castle employee testified that all African American employees were ordered off the floor and into the back when Donald and Ivana came to the casino. A 1991 book written by former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino recalled Donald referring to black casino employees as "lazy", and that he once said, "I"ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it." He initially did not disavow David Duke's endorsement, and blamed this on a damaged earpiece. He claimed Gonzalo Curiel could not do his job effectively because of his 'Mexican heritage'. He accused Megyn Kelly of 'menstruating' at the first Republican debate (and called her a bimbo afterwards) and attributed this to how she questioned him. He insulted Carly Fiorina's appearance. He mocked a disabled reporter. This is not a man that is fit to be our president. Now I'll admit that Kasich has called people names in the past, however, he composes himself in a way that is far superior and far more professional than Trump [9].

John Kasich has a higher net favorability than Donald Trump, and was projected to defeat Hillary Clinton in a general election. His ideas and positions appeal to a variety of voters and the GOP Establishment. Furthermore, his conduct is far superior and more 'presidential' than Donald Trump. It is for these reasons that I propose that John Kasich is a superior alternative to Donald Trump.



Economic Plan:

I have made arguments (yes made by me) on here.


Donald Trump is taking a stand against illegal immigrants. As quoted:
"When politicians talk about "immigration reform" they mean: amnesty, cheap labor and open borders. The Schumer-Rubio immigration bill was nothing more than a giveaway to the corporate patrons who run both parties.

Real immigration reform puts the needs of working people first " not wealthy globetrotting donors. We are the only country in the world whose immigration system puts the needs of other nations ahead of our own. That must change. Here are the three core principles of real immigration reform:

1. A nation without borders is not a nation. There must be a wall across the southern border.

2. A nation without laws is not a nation. Laws passed in accordance with our Constitutional system of government must be enforced.

3. A nation that does not serve its own citizens is not a nation. Any immigration plan must improve jobs, wages and security for all Americans.

"Make Mexico Pay For The Wall

For many years, Mexico"s leaders have been taking advantage of the United States by using illegal immigration to export the crime and poverty in their own country (as well as in other Latin American countries). They have even published pamphlets on how to illegally immigrate to the United States. The costs for the United States have been extraordinary: U.S. taxpayers have been asked to pick up hundreds of billions in healthcare costs, housing costs, education costs, welfare costs, etc. Indeed, the annual cost of free tax credits alone paid to illegal immigrants quadrupled to $4.2 billion in 2011. The effects on jobseekers have also been disastrous, and black Americans have been particularly harmed.

The impact in terms of crime has been tragic. In recent weeks, the headlines have been covered with cases of criminals who crossed our border illegally only to go on to commit horrific crimes against Americans. Most recently, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, with a long arrest record, is charged with breaking into a 64 year-old woman"s home, crushing her skull and eye sockets with a hammer, raping her, and murdering her. The Police Chief in Santa Maria says the "blood trail" leads straight to Washington.

In 2011, the Government Accountability Office found that there were a shocking 3 million arrests attached to the incarcerated alien population, including tens of thousands of violent beatings, rapes and murders.

Meanwhile, Mexico continues to make billions on not only our bad trade deals but also relies heavily on the billions of dollars in remittances sent from illegal immigrants in the United States back to Mexico ($22 billion in 2013 alone).

In short, the Mexican government has taken the United States to the cleaners. They are responsible for this problem, and they must help pay to clean it up.

The cost of building a permanent border wall pales mightily in comparison to what American taxpayers spend every single year on dealing with the fallout of illegal immigration on their communities, schools and unemployment offices.

Mexico must pay for the wall and, until they do, the United States will, among other things: impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages; increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them); increase fees on all border crossing cards " of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays); increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays); and increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico [Tariffs and foreign aid cuts are also options]. We will not be taken advantage of anymore" (1)

Of course, immigrants can not get passed the wall. They must go through the legal processes.

Why Kasich Is A Fool:

"1. Kasich signed S.B. 5, which limited the ability of public employees to collectively bargain for better working conditions. If Kasich is re-elected, he is very likely to sign "right to work" legislation if and when it comes to his desk. [Cleveland Plain Dealer, 4/3/11;, 2/14/14]

2. The purchasing power of the minimum wage has continually declined over time, leaving many families in worse and worse situations. Kasich has repeatedly made it clear that he is "concerned" about raising the minimum wage. [The Columbus Dispatch, 2/14/13]

3. Kasich proposed a plan in 2013 that cut income tax rates by 20%, cut some business tax rates in half and levied sales taxes on goods and services that were previously exempt. The plan raised taxes on the poorest 60% of Ohio residents while the top 1% saw an average tax cut of $10,369. [Think Progress, 2/8/13]

4. As governor, Kasich cut funding for education by $700 million and funding for nursing homes by $340 million. [The Columbus Dispatch, 7/1/11]

5. During difficult economic times, it's hard for working families to balance their jobs with their responsibilities to their families. Kasich doesn't seem to care as he said he opposes government-required paid sick days for workers. [National Federation of Independent Business Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire 2010, accessed 2/3/14]" (2)

John Kasich wants to let abortion be legal in the case of rape. As quoted:
"[Kasich is] pro-life except in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is in danger. He wouldn"t pick a pro-choice running mate or nominate pro-choice judges. He sees no point in discussing the abortion issue either. It doesn"t serve any purpose, he said. He can"t change his principles. Unlike other pro-lifers whose abortion position also bespeaks a divisive judgmental look at all citizens, [Kasich"s spokesman said], "you"ll never see him pounding on a podium screaming divisive rhetoric."(3)

However, how can Kasich know if they are raped? Any woman can claim she was raped and get an abortion.

This is all for now as it has been a very long day for me.

Anime/VN OP:

Debate Round No. 2


I thank my opponent for their argument.

1. Immigration
My opponent provides one universal (made by Trump) definition of 'immigration reform' without bringing up how it applies to Kasich's plan and how Kasich's plan compares to that of Trump. By this definition, Kasich surely must be in favor of "amnesty, cheap labor, and open borders" because he is serving "the corporate patrons who run both parties." If he's not, than my opponent is providing false information.

Here is Kasich's immigration plan (in his words): "I'm for sealing the border, I'm for a guest worker program. People can come in, work, and go back home. We haven't closed the border because special interests, I believe, blocked it. We have 11 and a half million people here. If they have not committed a crime since they've been here, make them pay a fine." [1].

In other words, Kasich:
-exposed the "corporate patrons" / special interests behind traditional immigration reform [1].
-wants to close the border, not open it [1].
-supports, but does not like, pathway to citizenship (Reagan was the same way). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Trump campaign website does not list the deportation of all illegal immigrants and Trump has not spoken of it recently, meaning that perhaps he is abandoning it [1] [2].
-supports a "reasonable guest worker program so people can come in and out, that lawbreakers go to prison or are deported". He also supports a limit on the amount of people that can come here legally [1].

In other words, Kasich's immigration reform does not completely match up and is more complex than the definition my opponent has provided.

I agree with Kasich that we should improve our border fence and border security rather than build a billion-dollar wall, make Mexico pay for it, and deport 11.5 million illegal immigrants. I agree with you that there are ways to make Mexico pay for a wall, but Kasich's immigration stance is far superior and far less costly than that of Trump.

2. Kasich is a "Fool"

1. My opponent brings up S.B 5, which sounds really intimidating at first (almost like something out of Terminator if you've ever watched it). S. B. 5, or Senate Bill 5, spawned so many rumors and misconceptions, and I think my opponent might be buying into them. The bill was really about promoting the rights of business owners and limiting bargaining abilities of public workers, safety forces, and educational workers. I don't 100% support it, but I can see why Kasich and other conservatives did. Taking the affirmative side of this bill does not make Kasich a "fool" [3].

2. He's concerned about raising the minimum wage because it will harm small businesses and most likely lead to an increase in unemployment. Choosing the lesser of two evils does not make Kasich a "fool".

3. I agree that Kasich messed up there.

4. I agree that he messed up there as well.

5. Also because it would harm small businesses. Not a "fool" there.

6. (abortion) I agree with you there.

Kasich may have gotten some things wrong, as everyone does, but compared to Trump, Kasich is an angel.



Rebuttal to Case 1:

My candidate won the election for the Republican party nominee. Yours fell way short.

Rebuttal to Case 2:

He did not win the election. John Kasich did not pledge to end same-sex marriage.
Some statistics about illegal aliens:
"75 percent of those on the most wanted criminals list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
"One quarter of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals, as are more than 40 percent of all inmates in Arizona and 48 percent in New Mexico jails.
"Over 53 percent of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
"63 percent of cited drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that number, 97 percent are illegal aliens. 66 percent of cited drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66 percent, 98 percent are illegal aliens" (1)

These people are more than willing to commit crime. They are more than willing to violate the law. These people who violate the law by coming here illegally are more than willing to break other laws. We should not let them back in. This is another reason why Kasich is a fool.

You admit you didn't support his view on that which contradicts your stance.

You then go on to agree with me on the majority of my claims.

Debate Round No. 3


"My candidate won the election for the Republican party nominee. Yours fell way short."
Kasich lost because of inadequate media coverage compared to Trump, having to split the anti-Trump vote with Cruz, and many other variables, none of which mean he was worse than Trump. In fact, Kasich has a much higher net favorability. To say that winning makes someone a better candidate is far from true.

"John Kasich did not pledge to end same-sex marriage."
I never said he did. Here's what I did say: "Kasich opposes same-sex marriage... he will not do anything to change or abolish [it]." My opponent clearly misinterpreted my argument.

Statistics on Illegal Immigrants
I understand what you're saying - and so does Kasich. Here's one of his quotes: "If they've been law abiding over a period of time they ought to be legalized and ought to be able to stay here. If you have violated the law, we're going to ship you out." Furthermore, all law-abiding illegals, meaning no crime other than illegal immigration, will pay a fine [1].

"You admit you didn't support his view on that [abortion and two of his actions] which contradicts your stance."
Yet you did not refute anything in my anti-Trump contention. I responded to your argument, yet you did not completely respond to mine.

"You then go on to agree with me on the majority of my claims."
I agreed with two of the five anti-Kasich points and your abortion argument. I sided 100% with Kasich on immigration. You did not completely respond to my argument, so I should be the one assuming that you agree with the majority of my claims.

My opponent left my favorability argument untouched, except for saying that Trump won the election and therefore is better than Kasich (which is not true). My opponent also only responded to part of my appealing to voters argument. The most surprising argument my opponent didn't respond to is my entire anti-Trump contention. If they don't bring it up this round, it would seem as though they agree with me.

I thank my opponent for this debate. :)



My economic argument is untouched.

Trump had all the negative media coverage he could handle and he still got the nomination. What is Kasich's excuse?

A view without action is worthless.

So, we should allow these criminals who committed the crime of coming here illegally to have a chance to commit even more crimes?

I don't see the need. This was Trump when he was a business man; not a presidential nominee.

You did not respond to the majority of my claims. You agreed with more than two.

This was a rather lazy debate for me since I didn't see much need in debating it. Kasich was not nominated while Trump got nominated despite all of the obstacles he endured.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by mangolife23 2 months ago
I'm very liberal and a bernie supporter (although I'll settle for Hillary) and I agree that Kasich is better than that psycho trump
Posted by BartMarlows 2 months ago
I agree with you either though i like Donald Trump more John is Better
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