The Instigator
TheConservativeSocialist
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Chase226
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

John Kasich Should Have Been the GOP Nominee

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 231 times Debate No: 94266
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
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TheConservativeSocialist

Pro

Billionaire real estate mogul Donald Trump officially became the Republican party presidential nominee at the Republican National Committee Convention in Cleveland. I will be arguing the the nomination should have gone to Ohio governor and former presidential candidate, John Kasich.

ROUND 1 - ACCEPTANCE ONLY
ROUND 2 - ARGUMENTS
ROUND 3 - REBUTTALS
ROUND 4 - REBUTTALS AND CLOSING STATEMENTS

Good luck!
Chase226

Con

Thank you very much, I will accept the debate. Good luck my friend.
Debate Round No. 1
TheConservativeSocialist

Pro

1. Kasich is more favorable than Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

a. In virtually every poll featured on Real Clear Politics predicting a Kasich vs Clinton general election, Kasich is projected to win; his average lead over her was +7.4% [1]. When the polls were taken, John Kasich was the only Republican candidate projected to defeat a Democratic candidate. As of right now, Clinton is polling over Trump with an average lead of +0.4% [2].

b. From March 17-27, the Pew Research Center conducted a poll to determine attitudes toward the 2016 presidential candidates. The poll showed that only 20% of those sampled believed Kasich would make a poor or terrible President, compared to 46% for Clinton and 60% for Trump [3].

c. A Bloomberg poll taken on March 16 showed that Kasich has a higher net favorability than any of his primary opponents. His was +14, compared to -23 for Cruz and -39 for Trump [4]. According to Real Clear Politics, Trump currently has an average net favorability of -21.1 and Clinton has an average net favorability of -18.0 [5] [6].

2. Kasich appeals to many types of voters and the GOP establishment.

After the 2012 Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, lost the election, the GOP was advised: "We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate that we care about them, too." Kasich clearly understands this; in one of his speeches, he touched on how "people with more money or less money, people with different-sounding last names or different religious beliefs or different-colored skin or lifestyles" are often blamed for our country's problems [7]

He affirms that he does not support same-sex marriage, which appeals to social conservatives, though he will not attempt to abolish of change the laws protecting it, which appeals to social progressives. He promised immigration reform, which appeals to moderate voters and the GOP establishment. He supports deregulation, which appeals to fiscal conservatives [7].

Conclusion
John Kasich is proven to be more favorable then Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. His stances and ideas appeal to many groups, including but not limited to moderates, social progressives, social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and the GOP establishment. Above all, he was projected to defeat Hillary Clinton in a general election. It is for these reasons that I propose that Ohio governor and former candidate John Kasich should have received the Republican party nomination for President of the United States.

SOURCES
[1] http://www.realclearpolitics.com...
[2] http://www.realclearpolitics.com...
[3] http://www.people-press.org...
[4] http://assets.bwbx.io...
[5] http://www.realclearpolitics.com...
[6] http://www.realclearpolitics.com...
[7] http://www.npr.org...
Chase226

Con

Gov Kasich did not win a record number of GOP primary votes, Donald Trump did. Gov Kasich had less delegates (161) than Marco Rubio (165) who dropped out 2 months earlier. Trump had 1543.(http://www.realclearpolitics.com...)
He did not get enough votes to win the nomination it is as simple as that.
All that other stuff, mainly the stuff Mitt Romney says is pointless to the GOP base anyways, no one liked him. Trump has broad support from many sides of the political spectrum. Gov Kasich very well could have been on Trumps ticket had he not been such a sore loser, he made a pledge to endorse the nominee and still has not ( http://www.theatlantic.com...)
Trump is the Nominee, voted in by the people that is how it is. Had Gov. Kasich received a record number of votes and had over 1237 delegates then he would be the nominee.
Debate Round No. 2
TheConservativeSocialist

Pro

I thank my opponent for their argument.

"Gov. Kasich did not win a record number of GOP primary votes, Donald Trump did. Gov. Kasich has less delegates (161) than Marco Rubio (165) who dropped out 2 months earlier."
-Gov. Kasich lost the election for many reasons. He was not represented by the media nearly as much as Donald Trump. He had to split the anti-Trump vote with multiple candidates. He ran in an election where voters favored political outsiders. The voters preferred anti-establishment ideology. The reason Donald Trump won was because his messages - building a wall, deporting illegal immigrants, banning Muslims from terrorist-influenced countries from immigrating - resonate more with GOP voters, especially those who are looking for a non-corrupt, non-Bush Era Republican, anti-establishment, political outsider. This, however, does not mean that Donald Trump is fit to be the Republican nominee, as I am arguing that John Kasich should have filled that position.

"All that other stuff, mainly the stuff Mitt Romney says is pointless to the GOP base anyways, no one liked him."
-My opponent misinterprets my argument (even though they weren't supposed to start their rebuttal) and provides false information. I did not provide any quotes or opinions from Mitt Romney; I said that "after the 2012 Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, lost the election, the GOP was advised: 'We need to campaign among Hispanic, black, Asian, and gay Americans and demonstrate that we care about them, too'. I then continued to say that Gov. Kasich understands this and provided a quote - a quote from Gov. Kasich - as evidence. My opponent follows up by claiming that "no one liked" Mitt Romney. Yet my opponent leaves out that Mitt Romney received over 47% of the popular vote and 38.3% of the electoral vote. In other words, quite a few people liked him, or at least liked him enough to cast their vote for him.
Chase226

Con

My apologies on the early rebuttal, re-reading that part about Mitt Romney acts more as both a rebuttal and an argument.
All the points you made about why Gov. Kasich did not win are true, on the flip side it also shows he was out of touch with what the base wanted. Elections would be easy if both parties did not hold primaries and simply put their best people forward, that is not the case here. The people elected Donald Trump to represent the GOP in the general election and therefore it does not matter whether he is fit to be the nominee, the fact is, Donald Trump is the nominee. Gov. Kasich is an AMAZING Statesman, he has done amazing things for this country and should have run in 2012 because he would have won the election. Mitt Romney in fact helped create Donald Trump, watching Gov. Romney in 2012 break down when attacked by Obama was disgraceful and simply was embarrassing that he had no fight in him. This time around, the GOP electorate wanted someone who had a fighting spirit not someone who was going to accept politics as usual. Again no one in this election cares about Gov. Romney
( http://www.huffingtonpost.com...)
(http://thedailybanter.com...)
The GOP needs to do that, but they wont pander to Ethnic minorities like Democrats do, another issue with Romneys candidacy that hurt Kasich was he did not attack back on attacks calling him Racist, Sexist, Elitist and Homophobic it was not so much about the GOP doing a better job to reach out, rather the GOP fighting back against false attacks by the left .
Debate Round No. 3
TheConservativeSocialist

Pro

I accept my opponent's apology and I must say that they have made a very interesting rebuttal.

"The people elected Donald Trump to represent the GOP in the general election and therefore it does not matter whether he is fit to be the nominee, the fact is, Donald Trump is the nominee."
-I agree that the people elected Trump to represent the GOP as their nominee. Although I support Donald Trump, I would've preferred John Kasich - hence the resolution 'John Kasich should have been the GOP nominee. I agree that, in our representative republic, it is only fair that the individual with the most votes and the most delegates be granted the nomination.

"This time around, the GOP electorate wanted someone who had a fighting spirit not someone who was going to accept politics as usual."
-I read the second source you provided. I'll compare Trump's record to Romney's, as described on the website.

1. Romney is a Mormon, which is not traditional. Trump is a Christian, but he is not very religious, which is not completely traditional.
2. Romney created a healthcare system like Obamacare. Trump, years ago, supported universal healthcare.
3. Romney was originally pro-choice. So was Trump.
4. Romney flip-flops. Trump went from Democrat to Republican to Reform to Democrat to Republican to Independent to Republican.
5. Romney has no charisma. I'll accept this as a difference.
6. Romney reminded people of his wealth. So does Trump.
7. Romney is very unclear on his stances. Trump can be too - I had to read his website to learn his complete stances.

Those are the reasons why nobody likes Romney. The strange thing is that most of them apply to Trump. Yes, Trump can be a 'fighter', I'll admit, but he's basically a different, more unconventional version of Mitt Romney. On top of that, it would seem that every time Trump 'fights', he is attacked by the media.
Chase226

Con

Donald Trumps political rise is something that will be caught in political science, history, American politics class, and what ever social science classes there are for generations to come. What we witnessed with Trump in 2016 was the rise of the outsider, the man who said enough of the B.S. Washington insiders this included 16 of the best candidates the GOP had to offer. He wiped the floor with them, but why? he offers hope, and a brass message of strong leadership, something no other candidate has been able to manipulate their image to show that.
Gov. Kasich again, is a great statesmen for our country but his lack of anger, which was the media called the 'adult in the room' attitude did not sit well with most voters. This election cycle his polite, soft spoken demeanor did not help him, the voters were looking for someone who expressed they were 'mad as hell'. That 'mad as hell' attitude stems from anger from the GOP towards its own for failures to stop President Obama as they have promised to do in 2010, 2012 and 2014, nothing changed though. Gov. Romney did not help, the biggest reason for the 2010 GOP T.E.A party was to protest the Affordable Care Act, the one that Gov. Romney championed in Massachusetts, Gov. Romney was not the man for the job, he did not know how to face a politician like Pres. Obama.
Gov. Romney's loss in 2012 started the snowball effect that became Donald Trump, the GOP establishment is to blame for Trump, they failed their voters and their votes looked else wear and what did they find? They found Trump. Had Gov. Kasich run in 2012 he would have won, he is very level headed, the country was not as hostile as it is now so his attitude and record would have been flaunted against a very weak Pres. Obama. Gov. Kasich is a great man, but with this election cycle he was not the right man for the job.
Thank you for the debate!
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by BartMarlows 4 months ago
BartMarlows
Delete your Debate TheConservativeSocialist Chase is a troll he made me lose 3 Debates because he hates me and i presented good arguements
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