The Instigator
KennyV13
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
CaldamanTSP
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Jon Jones will defeat Rashad Evans at UFC 145

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/29/2012 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,218 times Debate No: 21617
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
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KennyV13

Pro

I am truly sorry I missed out on the first debate. I am excited though, that you have challenged me. Let's start it up again, this time I will start out with a better opening argument. Good Luck!

Argument: Jon Jones will defeat Rashad Evans at UFC 145

Let me first say, Rashad Evans is a worthy opponent and it should be a great fight for MMA fans. I think the fight will be interesting, and a very hyped fight. BUT, I do not see Rashad Evans walking away with the belt in this one.

For one, Jon Jones as we all know has yet to be defeated or outworked by anyone. Yes, he has one loss but that was by DQ and that fight should of been called way before the illegal elbows did occur. The fact that no one has yet to really put it to him or put him in a dangerous spot where he could lose is alarming. He's always won outright or in dominant fashion.

Experience:

Because Rashad Evans is the older fighter one might think he is more experience but Jon Jones had 16 fights under his belt (10 of which were in the UFC), and Rashad Evans has 18 fights under his belt (14 of which were in the UFC). Given that Jones is 24, and Evans 32, one might think Rashad really has an edge in experience but he really doesn't. Yes, he's been around longer in terms of age but experience develops inside the octagon.

Notables he's beaten:

Lyoto Machida: Former champion who brutally knocked out Rashad Evans

"Shogun" Rua: Former champion who beat Machida for the belt, and is a highly decorated fighter

"Rampage" Jackson: Another former champion, who had beaten Machida as well.

Ryan Bader: A rising star who beat up Rampage in Japan just recently

Vladimir Matyushenko and Stephan Bonnar - 2 solid Vets of the sport

I have more in store for the later rounds, awaiting your response. Good Luck!
CaldamanTSP

Con

Ok well i can see that you are an avid MMA fan but this is why i think rashad will come away with the victory:

Rashad evans spent years under the tutelage of Dan "the beast" Severn. who if you didnt know had 125 MMA fights in his career winning 100, Losing 18, and drawing 7.

When you have been trained by a veteran such as the beast you are surely going to pick up certain ways to defeat every opponent tht you may come against.

I do believe rashad has had 20 fights :S i think and has come away with the victory 18 times and only lost once....

That would appear to show that jon jones has a 15 wins to 1 loss record
And Rashad evans has a 18 wins to 1 loss record, which is the better but only slightly.

but let me take a moment to weigh up his chances....

Rashad evans uses Gaidojutsu,
Gaidojutsu combines techniques from wrestling, kickboxing, judo, basic grappling, brazilian jiu-jitsu and kickboxing.

As i am not aware of jon jones specific techniques i think you will agree that rashad evans commands a very broad repetoire and should be able to cope with anything Jones throws at him.

Of course you cant argue with the results Jones has pulled out but i would personally give Evans the edge.

Dont think im saying Evans will walk all over him because it will be a very close fought bout.... but it think evans just has the edge for me :)

I hope to continue debating with you :)
Debate Round No. 1
KennyV13

Pro

While I do think training with such a legend and experienced fighter like Dan Severn can help a fighter, it can only help so much as Severn was never a striker. He was more of a wrestler, and submission type of guy. His record, while impressive in the standpoint of the amount wins isn't really that impressive when you see who he actually beat. I know he beat Forrest Griffin which is a good win but again that was Forrest Griffin's first pro fight, as compared to Severn's 58th. The point that I'm getting too with Severn is that he really hasn't beaten too many notables, and he is more of a one dimensional guy so him training with Rashad will obviously help but only so much.

Jon Jones on the other hand has a solid camp under the tutelage of Greg Jackson. Rashad used to be in that camp but then for obvious reasons that we MMA fans know he left too the Blackzillans.

Greg Jackson's camp includes: George St. Pierre (WW UFC Champion), Carlos Condit (interim UFC WW Champion), Tom Watson (MW BAMMA Champion), Clay Guida, Deigo Sanchez, Nate Marquardt, Donald Cerrone, Yoshihiro Akiyama, Tim Kennedy, Shane Carwin, etc....

So it's a solid camp that's filled with champions and former champions.

Anyways,

Jon Jones like I said before has yet to be outworked or presented a problem in which he was in danger of losing a fight. He also finishes most of his fights. His solid wrestling, unorthodox striking has presented problems for every opponent not to mention his huge reach advantage over every fighter (84.5)

Jones has never been taken down, and has faced off pretty good wrestlers in Vladdy Matyushenko, Ryan Bader, Matt Hamill, and even Machida + Rua have strong backgrounds to get fighters to the ground. Not to mentioned he has also never been swept in the UFC

Jones has avoided 67% of the strikes thrown at him which is staggering because it just shows he uses his range very effectively to avoid such strikes thrown at him.

Rashad recently fought Phil Davis and while winning pretty easily he didn't really look good at all to tell you the truth. I've been watching UFC for awhile to know what Rashad Evans is capable but against a guy like Phil Davis I expected him to be better. His striking wasn't effective but he showed solid wrestling.

Jon Jones is just so unpredictable and with his reach, range, wrestling. I just don't see Rashad being able to keep pace with Jones.

source: http://www.ufc.com...
CaldamanTSP

Con

I can see what you are saying but if im perfectly honest i wasnt highlighting Dan severn as one form of unbeatable legend but instead as an experienced fighter, 125 fights can obviously highlight that he has come up against someone with Jones' skills before and seeing as he won 100 out of 125 would seem to imply he won. (could have lost but unlikely)

Also 'The beast' also remarked how he showed Rashad Evans EVERYTHING.

Also i saw an interview on UFC.com with Evans, he states that he is watching jon jones fights and has already picked ot several holes in his game he can exploit and hopefully come away with the win. (i cant find any myself though)

Personally i cant argue with Jones' statistics and if im honest i dont want him to lose he is a very good fighter but i want rashad to win.

Jones will get frustrated easy and wil start usin illegal moves and possibly another DQ?

I think even is Evans wins this fight he should be calling it a day soon if he can beat jones he will have nothing less to prove and like i have stated in life before luck has a lot to do with fighting :)
Debate Round No. 2
KennyV13

Pro

KennyV13 forfeited this round.
CaldamanTSP

Con

Missed it?
Debate Round No. 3
KennyV13

Pro

Yea, but I'll double up here.

Also to get it out of the way, the reason you think Rashad has more wins is because the UFC adds there TUF wins to their record although there actually exhibition fights, and not a pro fight. More of an inflation to make them out to be better then they are for record sakes.

Comparing the two:

Jon Jones is a better striker then Rashad Evans. Evans striking was very good back in the day when he was knocking out Liddell, and Griffin. But since then it really seems like it has faded a bit, which could be due to age. I still think he can strike but he is not the same since back in the day. Jones striking is better because he uses his range so well. Whether it's his kicks or jabs, he's always frustrating his opponent. Jones is so unpredictable as well and throws an array of different strikes. His spinning back elbow is just vicious.

Jones Striking: 362/697 (52%)

Evans Striking: 385/974 (40%)

Jon Jones i'd favor in wrestling although I recognize Rashad Evans wrestling as high level. The fact that Jones has yet to be taken down is an amazing feat in itself given how many fights he has.

Jones Takedowns: 21/33 (64%)
Takedown Defense: 100%

Evans Takedowns: 48/90 (53%)
Takedown Defense: 66%

Ground Game is Jones once again. His elbow strikes and ability to stay on top control and dominate his opponent is one of the best i've ever seen. Evans is not bad himself but he isn't as effective as Jones in top control. Also Jones can threaten you with a submission where as Evans would not even attempt one. I believe Jon Jones has more weapons in his arsenal on the ground, whether it be elbows or a submission attempt.

Jon Jones is just the complete package as a fighter, and in comparison to Rashad Evans i'd say he's definitely better. In fact I think Jones will finish Evans within the 5 frames. Evans has no submission game and his striking has been more one dimensional lately. Jones can do it all, and is widely talented in everything.

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Jon Jones as you suggesting might get frustrated? I think not, and that first DQ shouldn't of even been one. Matt Hamill was done way before they even struck, it was poor reffing followed by a boneheaded move by Jones who was simply just trying to get the stoppage. Since then his elbows have been clean, and he hasn't done anything illegal. To assume he will get frustrated and possibly to a DQ move is a little over the top. Most fighters don't resort to that, it's just the heat of the moment in those rare occasions. Jones is a smart guy although perceived as cocky, he just seems blessed. Also even if you perceive him as cocky, he's definitely got the resume and skills to protect them.

Few Questions:

Do you really see Evans out striking Jones or knocking him out?
Can Evans take Jones down?
How good is Evans off his back?
Can Evans evade the possible submission attempts?
How does Evans make up for the the reach advantage of Jones?
How can Evans win?

Jon Jones is no myth, and has cemented himself in one of the best fighters all time. In such a short amount of time too, he's still young and not in his prime yet.

Jon Jones Advantages:

Having Trained with Evans in the past
Striking is unpredictable and very effective
Great ground game, from Strikes to getting into a dominant position
Solid wrestling base
A submission artist
Greg Jackson is in his corner, and helps train him
Experienced
He has fought already an array of top fighters who were former champions
His Reach at 84.5 inches
His ability to stay on the outside and pick apart opponents
His clinch game features some heavy knees
Has pointy elbows which can gash an opponent very quickly
He's Explosive, and fast
He's Tall at 6'4 which makes opponents have to punch upward
The ability to leg kick and pick away his opponents

The List goes on and on......

I don't think this will go 5 rounds but if does, Jones will have the cardio to do it. Greg Jackson fighters are known to have good cardio because Jackson emphasizes that in his camp. Some examples of this would be Clay Guida, Carlos Condit, GSP, etc....

Evans is still a top fighter in the division but he is past his prime, at 32 years old he's starting to look slow and is losing his edge. Like I said before, his striking has been off. The Phil Davis fight only proved this. His wrestling is still good though because he easily took on Davis who is known for his wrestling. He was taken down two times but that was on 9 attempts. He took Phil down on 3 out of his 4 attempts. His cardio was rather iffy too there for a fight that Phil Davis wasn't really doing anything.

The X Factors in this fight will be:

Jones ability to leg kick, and Evans hasn't really utilized his leg kicks all that much lately. If Jones chooses to he can break him down and pick him apart.

Jones ability to submit, and Rashad Evans doesn't. Once he's on the ground he's at odds. Of Course he can defend but against someone like Jones? we will see.....

Jon Jones Will Defeat Rashad Evans!
CaldamanTSP

Con

CaldamanTSP forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
KennyV13

Pro

KennyV13 forfeited this round.
CaldamanTSP

Con

CaldamanTSP forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by KennyV13 4 years ago
KennyV13
Dam, Wrote up a closing argument but was running spell checker and the time limit ran out.

In sum, I basically said that you have showed me nothing to persuade me that Rashad Evans would defeat Jon Jones. You mentioned a few mere supports, as my argument was loaded with more support to back up my claim that Jon Jones will defeat Rashad Evans.

Good Luck in future debates, I will definitely have to change the time limit to 48 hours because the problem with 24 hours if that your opponent can do his debate 6pm, and your at school. The next day rolls in and the same process. Sorry once again.
Posted by KennyV13 4 years ago
KennyV13
Sorry, I missed out on Round 3. I had a lapse in time and then a last second job interview I had to run to and catch. Horrible day, and running on 3 hours of sleep.

Anyways, I plan to double up in the 4th round to make up for my forfeiting of round 3.

Good Luck the Rest of the Way!
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