The Instigator
candice
Pro (for)
Losing
44 Points
The Contender
JTSmith
Con (against)
Winning
49 Points

Joseph Smith is a false prophet.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/2/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,374 times Debate No: 3876
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (25)

 

candice

Pro

When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him," (Deut. 18:20-22).

Being a Christian, this excerpt from the bible pretty much states my case in full. Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism made MANY false prophecies.

1. Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus was to return 56 year's from the day of his prophecy. Yet, in 1891 the world was still very much not in the end of days.
History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 408-409

2. Smith claimed a great temple, and the Mecca of Mormondom to be built in Missouri in his generation. It was instead built in Utah.
Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31

3. Smith foretold of EVERY Nation, getting involved in the civil war. Obviously, this did not happen.
Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3

4. Joseph Smith said that "in a few days" the earth would have no sun, the moon would be bathed in blood, and the stars would fall. That was in 1832, so what exactly does a few days mean?
Doctrine and Covenants 88:87

5. Smith stated that Isaiah 11 6-9 was about to come to fruition. Isaiah states:"And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea." These things are not happening.
Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40

All of these quotations came from Mormon excepted doctrine. So if you are indeed a Christian, and follow the teaching of the Bible, how can you not see Joseph Smith is a false prophet? How can you excuse these so called visions from god not being true in the least? Not only will a Prophet of God not have false visions, they won't LIE about practicing them. Joseph Smith claimed to have had the "vision" of plural marriage as the only way to Godhood. This "revelation" is said to have been had by Smith in 1843 (as it says in Doctrine and Covenants, section 132.) Yet, why then did Joseph Smith ALREADY practice polygamy BEFORE this revelation? Also, why publicly in 1844 did Joseph Smith release a public statement in the Times and Seasons that a man preaching polygamy openly was being excommunicated from the church for preaching "false, and corrupt doctrine. Would a true profit of God hide a divine prophecy of God?
JTSmith

Con

JTSmith forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
candice

Pro

Hopefully after this, con will post an argument. Sorry I can't really give any retort at this point. This could be a very good debate, and if my opponent doesn't come through I'll surely try this one again.
JTSmith

Con

"1. Joseph Smith claimed that Jesus was to return 56 year's from the day of his prophecy. Yet, in 1891 the world was still very much not in the end of days.
History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 408-409"

I have never heard of such a claim. I went to my Church History Volumes and could not find even the mention of Joseph Smith's name on those pages. I am thinking that your pages may be numbered differently than mine. If you could provide the date of entry than I could better address this point.
"2. Smith claimed a great temple, and the Mecca of Mormondom to be built in Missouri in his generation. It was instead built in Utah.
Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31"

Verses 2-5:
" 2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the arestoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his bprophets, and for the cgathering of his dsaints to stand upon eMount Zion, which shall be the city of fNew Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be abuilt, beginning at the btemple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and cdedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city aNew Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which btemple shall be creared in this dgeneration.
5 For verily this generation shall not all apass away until an bhouse shall be built unto the Lord, and a ccloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the dglory of the Lord, which shall fill the house."

In verses 2-5, the scriptures specifically speak of the building of the TEMPLE in this generation. "Which city shall be built beginning at the temple lot…". The scripture then states, "…which temple shall be reared in this generation.".

The temple lot was in fact named and dedicated as the scripture states.

3. Smith foretold of EVERY Nation, getting involved in the civil war. Obviously, this did not happen.
Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3

The verses read as follows:

1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord concerning the awars that will bshortly come to pass, beginning at the rebellion of cSouth Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls;
2 And the atime will come that bwar will be poured out upon all nations, beginning at this place.
3 For behold, the Southern States shall be divided against the Northern States, and the Southern States will call on other nations, even the nation of Great Britain, as it is called, and they shall also call upon other nations, in order to defend themselves against other nations; and then awar shall be poured out upon all nations.

These verses were written on December 25, 1832. They were written 28 years before the attack on Fort Sumpter. My interpretation of the words "all nations" is that the Lord meant all kinds of people and/or perhaps the international effects of the war. The bible often uses vague references such as these. To try to take these words as literally as my opponent is to look at the Lords Scripture from only one understanding, something that protestants could never do with the bible.
Furthermore, it ignores the amazing detail that Smith prophesied about. Smith predicted the war. Not only that but he predicted the vast amount of casualties that would be sustain. He predicted that the South would call on Great Britain for aid, and most amazing of all, he predicted even the starting place of the war, South Carolina. All of these prophesies came to pass and all of them were prophesied 28 years before the war began.

4. Joseph Smith said that "in a few days" the earth would have no sun, the moon would be bathed in blood, and the stars would fall. That was in 1832, so what exactly does a few days mean?
Doctrine and Covenants 88:87

"84 Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the aGentiles for the last time, as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bbind up the law and cseal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;
85 That their souls may escape the wrath of God, the adesolation of abomination which awaits the wicked, both in this world and in the world to come. Verily, I say unto you, let those who are not the bfirst elders continue in the vineyard until the mouth of the Lord shall ccall them, for their time is not yet come; their garments are not dclean from the blood of this generation.
86 Abide ye in the aliberty wherewith ye are made bfree; centangle not yourselves in dsin, but let your hands be eclean, until the Lord comes.
87 For not many days hence and the aearth shall btremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the csun shall dhide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in eblood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall fcast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree."

This is another difference of interpretation. My opponent chooses to understand the words "in a few days" literally. I think it is obvious by reading it in context that the words "In a few days" simply mean soon.

Earth is millions of years old. Humanity is thousands of years old. Given the innumerable millennia that the Lord and his creations have existed, soon could easily mean a thousand years. The Bible has many references such as these too. Protestants don't take those ones literally.
My point is that a few days to the Lord could mean a thousand years. In fact it seems clear to me that these prophesies coincide with those made by John the Revelator. These things will come pass at the end of times, which, speaking from an eternal perspective, are soon indeed.

5. Smith stated that Isaiah 11 6-9 was about to come to fruition. Isaiah states:"And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, And the leopard will lie down with the kid, And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 Also the cow and the bear will graze; Their young will lie down together; And the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 And the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den. 9 They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea." These things are not happening.
Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, vers 40

This comes back to the last point. It is simply another matter of interpretation of time. Looking at things from an eternal perspective, it is soon.

"All of these quotations came from Mormon excepted doctrine. So if you are indeed a Christian, and follow the teaching of the Bible, how can you not see Joseph Smith is a false prophet? How can you excuse these so called visions from god not being true in the least? Not only will a Prophet of God not have false visions, they won't LIE about practicing them. Joseph Smith claimed to have had the "vision" of plural marriage as the only way to Godhood. This "revelation" is said to have been had by Smith in 1843 (as it says in Doctrine and Covenants, section 132.) Yet, why then did Joseph Smith ALREADY practice polygamy BEFORE this revelation? Also, why publicly in 1844 did Joseph Smith release a public statement in the Times and Seasons that a man preaching polygamy openly was being excommunicated from the church for preaching "false, and corrupt doctrine. Would a true profit of God hide a divine prophecy of God?"

Now, I will address the issue of Joseph Smith and Polygamy. I have never heard of any such public statement having been made. My opponent then cites Doctrine & Covenants 132, saying that Joseph Smith says in this chapter that plural MARRIAGE is the only way to godhood.
Im out of character.
Debate Round No. 2
candice

Pro

candice forfeited this round.
JTSmith

Con

JTSmith forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by SnoopyDaniels 9 years ago
SnoopyDaniels
If you find Joseph Smith's prophecies impressive, you have clearly never heard of William Marrion Branham, a true prophet. Joseph Smith was a charlatan.
Posted by JTSmith 9 years ago
JTSmith
hahaha
i forgot the "s"...
...
...
i hadn't noticed that...
Posted by candice 9 years ago
candice
by the way... I literally started laughing when I got to the end, because I was thinking... what does I'm out of character mean? It took me like, 30 secs. to actually realise... hehe
Posted by candice 9 years ago
candice
Next time... Just reference my quotes... don't write them all in your rebutall, then you'll have more room.
Posted by JTSmith 9 years ago
JTSmith
wow thats a mess. It was originally longer...but it wouldnt fit. I guess i bring out the rest in my last round. Its not like im gunna win anyway...
Posted by JTSmith 9 years ago
JTSmith
im so sorry...so didnt have time...
if u wanna restart the debate, thats cool. I didnt mean to bail on you. Im still in if you are.
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
i know i was mean but i hate when people tear down others religion as long as it's not hurting any one why tear it down. no i don't think it's true or that god lives but i have seen it bring out the best in people.

******YOUR REALLY HOT******
Posted by cooljpk 9 years ago
cooljpk
he didn't post so i will debate this...
1) Doctrines and Covenants 84:2-5,31 the "this generation" not his generation which is the generation of the last days ... our generation

2) i don't have the History of the Church on me so ill get back to you on that!

3) Doctrine and Covenants 87:1-3 It's a prophecy of the civil war and IT'S repercussions on the world of freeing the slaves and us becoming the superpower we are.

4) Doctrine and Covenants 88:87 GOD's time table not yours ... i'm sorry the world does NOT revolve around YOU!!!

5) Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith, History, verse 40 Again GOD's time table. and for the
"For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea." missionaries are every were as the "LORDS waters covering the earth"

And for the rest you twisted and mingled what he said to a point if i didn't know how to "UNDERSTAND it by my self i would agree with you but your full of it. Look beyond your pathetic self and let people believe what the want to.
Posted by Orrs_Girl 9 years ago
Orrs_Girl
hey check out a debate and tell me what u think! it's my fist time! it's called utter stupidity! thanks<3
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