Joseph Stalin was a more ruthless dictator than Adolf Hitler
|Voting Style:||Open||Point System:||7 Point|
|Updated:||5 months ago||Status:||Debating Period|
|Viewed:||208 times||Debate No:||95073|
First of all, whoever my opponent is, I would like to thank them for accepting this debate.
In this debate, I will be the Opposition (Con) side, whilst my opponent will accept to be the Proposition (Pro) side of this debate. To whom it may concern, please take a look at the structure of this debate.
Round I: Acceptance of this debate. In this period, there will be no contentions listed by any side. However, both sides may come up with their definitions, elaborate on the opponent's, or disagree.
Round II/III: Contentions are listed by both sides. A clash to the opposing side is allowed.
Round IV: Rebuttals. In this period, the proposition and opposition summarizes the points gathered in their debates. In this period, no new contentions nor facts may be addressed in your argument. A clash to the opposing side is allowed.
Now, the proposition side would like to define the topic before us.
Topic: Joseph Stalin was more ruthless dictator than a Adolf Hitler.
Joseph Stalin - The leader of the Soviet Union from the mid-1920s until his death in 1953. 
Ruthless - W Dictator - A person exercising absolute power, especially a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession 
Adolf Hitler - A German politician who was the leader of the Nazi Party, Chancellor of Germany, from 1933 to 1945, and Führer ("leader") of Nazi Germany from 1934 to 1945 
If there are any questions, please leave it in the comments.
I am looking forward to this debate, and thus, I wish my opponent good luck and hope to be a formidable opponent.
I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate again, and the opposition side wishes the best of lucks to the proposition.
In Round 2, the opposition side will bring forward three contentions that will support why Hitler was really worse than Stalin. Opposition’s first contention will describe the difference of reasons why Hitler and Stalin killed people.
Now, let us first take a look at what Stalin has done, and for what reasons. When Stalin rose to power, he didn’t come unopposed. Stalin, knew that they were people who would love to remove him as leader of the USSR, even the ones within his own government. Stalin killed people who he thought could mean him harm. And some of them did indeed mean him harm. There were two major events that took place during Stalin’s leadership before the Second World War, the Great Purge , and the Great Famine , but both of these were to put to attempt an end to resistance to those who stood against him. Unlike Hitler, he AT LEAST had a somewhat decent reason for killing people.
Now, let’s take a look at our German dictator, Adolf Hitler. And who were the victims of his evil dictatorship? Jews. The disabled. Homosexuals. Gypsies. Communists. He slaughtered them all, and why? Just because he didn't like them. He believed that he and his Nazis were superior to his victims. He thought that they didn’t belong in Germany. . And when he came into power, he choose the most cruel fate for these Jews. Hitler ordered his Nazis to take them away, and torture them for every minute of their lives. We will elaborate more on the persecution in my second contention. Unlike Stalin, Hitler’s victims weren’t threats at all, since he already brainwashed his people into thinking his ways, that every single one of Hitler’s victims were guilty of harming the economy. It was unfortunate that the majority believed Hitler’s lies.
The opposition’s second contention is the way of how both Hitler and Stalin killed people, and how Hitler was more cruel.
How did Stalin kill his people? He simply gave them a quick execution, or he starved them. But as again, he did this because it was an easier way to eliminate them. Stalin’s ways may look cruel to you, but we should first take a look what Hitler did, and see if Stalin is really the “lesser of two evils”.
“I was stubborn. I didn’t want to stay in Auschwitz [a Polish concentration camp]. I didn’t want to go to the gas chambers. I didn’t want to be cremated. I didn’t want to die there, and I kept pushing back.” ~ Felix Opatowski, a Polish Jew sentenced to a concentration camp who survived during the Second World War 
This was a direct quote about how Mr. Opatowski felt when the Nazis were choosing the Jews who would be sentenced to the gas chamber, a horrifying death. He was only 15 years old. The case here is, Hitler didn’t suddenly get rid of Jews right away. He captured them, tortured them, and the Nazis forced them to do hauling work everyday, and barely gave them anything to eat. And randomly, the SS would come to take people and suffocate them alive in the gas chambers. Hitler didn’t care who choked and wheezed every bit of breath, children, women, families, brother, son, daughter. And he allowed the Nazis to murder them on some of the most unreasonable circumstances. You could even be killed for talking too late at night! This whole paragraph is information where Opatowski stated in this book (Gatehouse to Hell) . This is a direct source, from a real Jewish prisoner, and can be considered 100% accurate.
Did the opposition not mention that Hitler allowed Josef Mengele to test on Jews? Mengele pretended to be a nice guy to this test subjects, which consisted of mostly children and twins. But when the time came, he did terrible tests on them. He froze them, he incinerated them, he suffocated them, he poisoned them, he removed their testicles, put them in pressure chambers, bled them to death, and many more inhumane countless ways. Most of these children never got to see the shine of the daylight ever again. And the survivors, scarred for life. Having to put up with a disability for the rest of their lives just because Hitler didn’t like him/her. Here is a quote from a boy who had unfortunately lost his twin brother due to a test Mengele performed. 
"Dr. Mengele had always been more interested in Tibi. I am not sure why - perhaps because he was the older twin. Mengele made several operations on Tibi. One surgery on his spine left my brother paralyzed. He could not walk anymore. Then they took out his sexual organs. After the fourth operation, I did not see Tibi anymore. I cannot tell you how I felt. It is impossible to put into words how I felt. They [Nazis] had taken away my father, my mother, my two older brothers - and now, my twin ..." 
Stalin killed people quickly or simply starved them, but this was nowhere near the torture, darkness, and cruel fate that Hitler give to these poor and innocent people. Clearly, the cruelty and brutalness of Adolf Hitler nowhere matches Stalin.
The opposition’s third contention is that Hitler is responsible for the deaths of many more people. That’s right, Hitler killed more people. Many sources state that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, but if we see it this way, that is not true. Hitler killed 11 million people during the Holocaust , but also remember that Hitler was responsible for starting the Second World War in Europe. 50 million civilians were killed because Hitler started the war, and the military casualties are from 20 to 25 million. Of course, if we cancel the Asian (mainly China and Japan) casualties, Hitler is still responsible for about 50-55 million deaths.  Many sources exaggerate the amount of people Stalin killed. Stalin is actually only responsible for 10 to 20 million. Six to ten million deaths during the famine, about 3 million in the purge, and 100 000 per year during the Second World War . Hitler had killed more people. Also consider the fact that Stalin was in power for 28 years (late 1924 to early 1953) , whilst Hitler was for only 12 (1933-1945).  Had Hitler been in power for as long as Stalin, then without doubt, everybody would see Hitler as the worst dictator the world has ever seen, with the deaths caused by Hitler being tremendously larger than Stalin. The obvious states that Hitler killed people at a much greater pace than Stalin.
What has been covered: In Round 2, the opposition have cleared three strong contentions. We have cleared that obviously, Hitler was more unreasonable when coming to kill people rather than Stalin, and that Hitler had given a more cruel fate to his victims than Stalin. Finally, we have covered that Hitler was responsible for the deaths of more people, and is responsible for causing murder of his victims at a much faster pace than Stalin. These three contentions are strongly supported with sources. For these reasons, the opposition without doubt believes that the German dictator, Adolf Hitler is truly more ruthless than the Soviet dictator, Joseph Stalin.
 (Opatowski, Felix. Gatehouse to Hell. Toronto: Azrieli Foundation, 2012. Print.)
 (https://en.wikipedia.org...Rise_of_Joseph_Stalin) (This citation is broken. Search "Rise of Joseph Stalin" on Wikipedia)
 (https://en.wikipedia.org...Adolf_Hitler) (This citation is broken. Search "Adolf Hitler" on Wikipedia)
As an interesting fact before I start the contentions. When Stalin's son tried to commit suicide he fired but survived causing Stalin to complain that 'he can't even shoot' and refuse to swap a German general for his son causing his son to be killed. Also Stalin was seen as arguing with his wife later on his wife committed 'suicide' (yeahright). In contrast Hitler suicide with his wife. How touching. /sarcasm.
1. Increasingly over time Stalin became more and more paranoid as a result of this he assassinated one of his most faithful communist fellows Sergev Kirov https://en.wikipedia.org... he was extremely loyal to Stalin but he became quite popular and thus a threat apparently. It is also believed by all historians that this was used as an excuse to start the great purges. This purge was due to the paranoia of Stalin and effectively the secret police killed millions almost indiscriminately. The great war heroes, leaders and marshals who led the resistance against the massive white armies invading them and won were all killed due to of course Stalin's paranoia they were never his enemies they supported him as. These great heroes or higher up figures were taken to court first to show their guilt and that they were plotting you might think that this is very democratic. But actually they were tortured to admit their crimes first. This was extremely illogical and was quite stupid in one move he crippled his army and with WW2 coming closer it almost caused him to lose the war. Also about those famines. Stalin caused these because he wanted Soviet Russia to be a great nation and forced industrialisation resulting in massive lose of lives completely illogically. Later on it became extremely clear it was pointless. Also this: "it was not a crop failure but the excessive demands of the state, ruthlessly enforced, that cost the lives of as many as five million Ukrainian peasants. Stalin refused to release large grain reserves that could have alleviated the famine, while continuing to export grain; he was convinced that the Ukrainian peasants had hidden grain away and strictly enforced draconian new collective-farm theft laws in response. Other historians hold it was largely the insufficient harvests of 1931 and 1932 caused by a variety of natural disasters that resulted in famine" https://en.wikipedia.org...
In contrast to all of this Hitler did actually have a reason for persecuting the Jews that correlates with politics. He did it because he wanted the German population to unite and basically turned the Jews into scapegoats for everything that happened in WW1. This allowed him to gain massive support from the majority of Germans and caused him to be elected (with the help of assassinations).
Stalin overall was much more ruthless because of his paranoia.
2. Starvation is one of the most painful deaths. Can you imagine having no food for weeks going thin as hell while watching your children and family starve to death until you finally succumb and fall down having no energy and finally die? That does not sound quick.
I entirely disagree with you that these are painful ways to die. Dieing by gas is a quick way to go and most Jews died by gas "The use of extermination camps (...) They were built for the systematic killing of millions, primarily by gassing, but also by execution and extreme work under starvation conditions."https://en.wikipedia.org...
Sure many died from extreme work but most by gassing which is extremely quick.
However in contrast of the Gulag camps which Stalin built in Siberia conditions were terrible Siberia had temperatures ranging to -71 degrees with people dying of cold in the sleep and of course the prisoners "all lived on starvation level rations, and many people starved to death in the camps," https://en.wikipedia.org... also on the same link "Among the prisoners there are some so ragged and lice ridden that they pose a sanitary danger to the rest. These prisoners have deteriorated to the point of losing any resemblance to human beings. Lacking food . . . they collect orts [refuse] and, according to some prisoners, eat rats and dogs." "faced meagre food rations, inadequate clothing, overcrowding, poorly insulated housing, poor hygiene, and inadequate health care. Most prisoners were compelled to perform harsh physical labour." Stalin was more indiscriminate then Hitler which made it even worse Hitler had reasons (yes stupid reasons but still reasons which I disagree with btw obviously) but Stalin it was due to paranoia so everyone was terrified. At one point 18 million people were in these Gulag camps.
Research done by the Nazis were bad yes. But they will never compare to what Stalin did. Stalin set up the Stasi which're the east Germany government (Stalin's satellite state they did whatever he said). Stalin made them set up the Stasi Prison. First before being sent their people were physically tortured and then sent in cars which would drive around in circles for hours and hours (to make it seem they were going far away and create isolation) when in reality the prison was right next to them. After getting out they would be put in isolation whenever they tried to go to sleep they would be awoken unto the point of insanity. They even played a constant changing noise for some prisoners eventually making them go insane. Extreme psychological torture was instilled on every patient. Leaving them in isolation with no one to talk to for years. Whenever they went to wash there would be eyes looking in eye holes to make them feel insecure. After a while they would send some patients into a pitch black rubber room with straps closing their arms. Anyone who entered this came out completely insane this room completely broke them. The prisons conditions were far far far worse then any Nazi's camps conditions because they didn't involve psychological torturing their people. http://www.dailymail.co.uk... Not very detailed but it provides photographic proof.
(Btw ik all this because I've been to the Stasi Prison in Berlin.
3. This is completely illogical. But if you insist on war casualties which should never be included in how many a regime has killed. I can easily argue that if you think Hitler predominantly wanted war and land. Stalin also wanted war perhaps more than Hitler as he was already mass producing tanks. https://en.wikipedia.org... ready for war. Stalin wanted war as equally as Hitler did. Both deserve mutual responsibility for ww2. And Stalin was responsible for many atrocities during ww2 "Germans took so many Soviet prisoners of war in part because Stalin ordered his generals not to retreat. The Germans shot so many civilians in part because Soviet partisans deliberately provoked reprisals. The Germans shot more than a hundred thousand civilians in Warsaw in 1944 after the Soviets urged the locals to rise up and then declined to help them." For more information on this http://www.nybooks.com... its at the bottom of the page.
Also since you're including this I think I can include what Stalin caused. In his greed for industrialisation and power. He caused Mao the Chinese dictator in to doing the same causing way over 30 million deaths. Stalin was also responsible for leaving so many Russian peasants behind and he forcibly told his generals to not retreat. There's also more information of this on the bottom.
So overall Hitler and Stalin deserve mutual responsibility and Stalin caused the terrible genocides in China. Meaning that overall Stalin did caused more deaths then Hitler.
Thanks for debating.
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