The Instigator
harrytruman
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Isabella_137
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Judaism (Pro) vs Christianity (Con):

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
harrytruman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/8/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 744 times Debate No: 87843
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (29)
Votes (1)

 

harrytruman

Pro

Let's debate Christianity, I'll let you start the first arguments.
Isabella_137

Con

Christianity is based on the soul value that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Messiah. That he came to die for our sins that we may be saved from the bondage of sin and death and so that we may live an eternal life with the Father, Yahweh. Judaism is the foundation of the Christian principle. Before there were Christians, there were Jews. That is to say, Jews are not incorrect about anything--except the fact that they do not believe that Christ was the Messiah. For Jesus to have fulfilled all of the prophecy's would be like dropping a red colored coin into an ocean of coins. Reaching down with your eyes closed and just so happening to pick up that red coin would be nearly impossible.
Debate Round No. 1
harrytruman

Pro

"Christianity is based on the soul value that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Messiah. That he came to die for our sins that we may be saved from the bondage of sin and death and so that we may live an eternal life with the Father."

There are many issues with this, the first being that Jesus wasn't the Messiah, he fit none of the Messianic prophecies except two types: prophecies that are really out of context verses and not messianic prophecies at all, and messianic prophecies so general that almost anyone could fit them.
Let's examine the first, for example, Christians say that Micah 5:2 is a prophecy that the Messiah will come from Bethlehem, but if you look at the chapter in context, it isn't a Messianic prophecy at all, it was a prophecy that a great general would come from Bethlehem and smite the enemies of the Jews, it was already fulfilled. Even if it was a Messianic prophecy, Jesus didn't fulfill it because he wasn't a general.
Another example is that Christians use Isaiah 53 to say that the Messiah would die for the sins of the world, but if you look at this chapter, you will notice that it isn't referring to the Messiah, and even if it was, Jesus didn't fulfill it!
Was Jesus sickly and ill? Isaiah 53:3.
Did Jesus have children? Isaiah 53:10.
Did Jesus live a long life? Isaiah 53:10.
Was Jesus rich? Isaiah 53:12.
For the second type, Christians use verses that say that the Messiah will be a Jew, tat he would be born of a woman, that he would die, that he would die a violent death, there are 18 million Jews, everyone was born of a woman, everyone is going to die, and there are so many people that have died a violent death, none of them are the Messiah.

Furthermore, the means of forgiveness are wrong also, according to the Christian doctrine, Christians are going to heaven no matter how wicked they are, but non Christians are going to hell no matter how righteous they are. This is completely nonsensical, in fact there is a Torah verse that directly addresses this:
Ezekiel 18:4:
"Look, all lives belong to me " both the parent"s life and the child"s life are equally mine " so it is the person who sins, himself, who must die."

This addresses two Christian doctrines, the one I mentioned earlier, as well as G-d punishing Jesus for our sins, there is another verse that discredits to these two doctrines also,
Proverbs 17:15:
"He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the LORD."

The Christian doctrine teaches that G-d would send the righteous to hell because of their creed, but allow the wicked into heaven because of their creed, as well as punish Jesus (someone innocent according to Christian doctrines) to acquit the wicked (us according to Christian doctrines), G-d would not do this because G-d would not commit an abomination.

\Furthermore, Christianity teaches that you achieve forgiveness by believing in Jesus, not good deeds, this goes directly against what the Torah says in Ezekiel 18:21-23:
"However, if the wicked person repents of all the sins he committed, keeps my laws and does what is lawful and right; then he will certainly live, he will not die. 22 None of the transgressions he has committed will be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done, he will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure at all in having the wicked person die?" asks Adonai Elohim. "Wouldn"t I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?"

If you see Ezekiel 18:22 specifically, it says "None of the transgressions he has committed will be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done, he will live," this says that the wicked will be forgiven and live "because of the righteous things they have done," not because of faith.
Isabella_137

Con

Excellent job, Pro. I must say, you have backed me into a corner. I will not defend what I believe any further; I believe that G-d will show you someday. You have shown a true skill set and have presented valuable information I will keep in mind. Now how do I withdraw?
Debate Round No. 2
harrytruman

Pro

Well, you can't, but does this mean you're going to become a Noahide rather than a Christian?
Isabella_137

Con

NO. It simply means that I know I cannot change your mind. You are already so deeply rooted in Judaism.
Debate Round No. 3
harrytruman

Pro

Well no, I CAN change my mind, I was born in a Christian family and converted to Judaism because I was provided with enough proof to change my beliefs, besides, it is YOU who has nowhere to go and no way to prove me wrong, not me.
I have provided proof for my claims, you simply stated that you cannot defend your beliefs anymore because I have proven them wrong, but it is ME who has a hard head and is being stubborn, stop with the backward logic.
Isabella_137

Con

Forget it, I wish to redo this debate I backed down when I should have provided sufficient evidence for what I believe. I challenge you now to consider what YOU used to believe. You let satan sway you. He whispered in your ear to get you away from Jesus an you listened because your root was weak. In Matthew, Jesus speaks of seeds that were planted. Some were tossed on the road, where they were gobbled up by fowls of the air. Some fell among the shallow soil, where they sprang up, but when the sun came, they withered in the heat. Some fell among the thorns where they were choked when they grew. And then, some fell on the good, nourishing soil. They sprang up from the earth in multitudes and lived.

Do you understand?
Debate Round No. 4
harrytruman

Pro

You have GOT to be kidding me, Satan? You think that I left Christianity because Satan told me to? No, I left Christianity because of logic, nothing more, nothing less. This was kind of shocking actually, someone believes different than you and has the facts to back himself up, therefore Satan.
Isabella_137

Con

You are only as blind as you make yourself... And right now you are stumbling in the dark.
Debate Round No. 5
29 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by CapAhab 1 year ago
CapAhab
That's funny! How silly is that! You followed Satan (The Jews) And actually, he is not wrong to withdraw from this debate, because the non-existent holy spirit have to show you that he is the messiah! And even if those prophecies are taken totally out of context and Yeshua was not the messiah, he was, because the non testament said so! I would suggest Isabella to read our team debate, because really what she believes is a lie, but she will say Satan is speaking through me! Get behind me Satan, I rebuke you in the name of Albert Einstein!
Posted by Yavneh 1 year ago
Yavneh
You all know talmid's debate with a Karaite? They are the heirs to the Saduccees; we are directly descended (ideologically) from the Pharisees. As Mister J seemingly did not want to keep the Torah, he was, from what I hear, anti-pharisee.
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
Yeah, I can't spell. I gues we are technically Pharisees, as that is the only Jewish sect that survived. The Saducees were the other group, making up claims like the Torah Shel B'al Peh was made up.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
Pharisees? Yes Rami, these people don't know what they're talking about, Pharisee was a member of a Jewish sect that had strict observance of the Mosaic Laws, or it could mean a self righteous person, I.e. exactly what this Christian idiot is, and there is nothing wrong with upholding G-d's Laws.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
Pharisees? Yes Rami, these people don't know what they're talking about, Pharisee was a member of a Jewish sect that had strict observance of the Mosaic Laws, or it could mean a self righteous person, I.e. exactly what this Christian idiot is, and there is nothing wrong with upholding G-d's Laws.
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
Interesting, we are still refered as Phareeis by Christians.
Posted by Rami 1 year ago
Rami
Well, get ready to learn the Jesus is a communist.
Posted by logicinlife 1 year ago
logicinlife
Or, we can debate around April 4th. The topic strictly being "Yeshua is the Messiah."

If you're interested, message me. I don't get notifications from this chat and i don't plan on it nor want to keep checking up on it.

We can talk details in the message.
Posted by logicinlife 1 year ago
logicinlife
I was saying your debator was poor.

Your arguments were actually terrible, and poor proper biblical interpretation. I would expect those observing Judaism to have a higher respect for the Tanakh, of course, Judaism's theology is so confused within itself now days that it isn't surprising.

Sometime in late May I'll happily debate you on this topic is nobody else can. I don't have time this month for a serious debate.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
@Logicinlife
I don't get your reply to me, you don't know which is worse, didn't I provide more than enough proof to show that Jesus was NOT the Meshiach.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by logicinlife 1 year ago
logicinlife
harrytrumanIsabella_137Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: The debate was quite silly