The Instigator
Rjupudi18
Pro (for)
The Contender
elikakohen
Con (against)

Judaism is more similar to Christianity or Islam?

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Debate Round Forfeited
Rjupudi18 has forfeited round #5.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/11/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 499 times Debate No: 97919
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

Rjupudi18

Pro

I will be arguing Judaism is more similar to Christianity and my opponent will be arguing it is more similar to Islam. Good luck.
elikakohen

Con

Thanks for the debate!

Apologies to begin, but : to distance Christianity from Judaism, I will be arguing Polemically, (against Judaism) - in strong terms, to emphasize some points (no offense is intended!) .

Con.R1.1 - Definitions -

Judaism - As defined by the Rabbinate, and Pharasaic Judaism - relying primarily upon tradition, the Mishneh, and the Talmud (to supersede written law). I insist on this definition of "Judaism" - as it is how Judaism defines itself :

Mishneh Torah, Mamrim 3:2 - He is like all the rest of the heretics who say that the Torah is not Divine in origin, those who inform on their fellow Jews, and the apostates. All of these are not considered as members of the Jewish people. There is no need for witnesses, a warning, or judges for them to be executed. Instead, whoever kills them performs a great mitzvah and removes an obstacle from people at large.

Christianity - a Disciple of Jesus, a student and follower of Jesus' commandments.

Islam - Setting aside extremism, (as this is a commonality in all 3); a religious faith seeking to be all-inclusive.

Again, setting aside any "totalitarian", "blackmail", "extortion" views of God upon people ... because whether the interpretations are true or not, the perception is the same for all three.


Con.R1.1 - First, Christianity defines itself by NOT being Rabbinical Judaism, that Judaism is Anti-Christ :

Matthew 15:3 - And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?

Revelation 3:9 - Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

There is no room for "Rabbinate Authority", nor "Tradition" which pre-empt written, or direct revelation from God - as it is found in Judaism.

Con.R1.2 - Christianity and Islam - Acceptance of the World, not Just Abraham's Descendants :

Certainly - Islam is very similar to Judaism, (as is Christianity) ...

But - a few key fundamental tenets illustrate where Christianity is similar to Islam, one example:

Where Judaism is self-oriented and relies on closeness to God to reach out to others - both Christianity and Islam reject this view outright - and affirm that God's blessing upon Abraham - now is available to all, (affirming that prioritizing everyone - is the path to the heart of God).

"O Mankind, we created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you in to tribes and nations so that you may know each other (not that you despise each other). Verily, the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is he who is most righteous of you." (Al-Quran, Chapter 49, Verse 13).


Debate Round No. 1
Rjupudi18

Pro

I'm sorry. I can't have this debate if you simply copy and paste stuff of the Internet. That's not the point of having a debate. I could simply copy and paste information from a random website. That doesn't require any thinking. If you want to continue this debate, write the arguments by yourself.
elikakohen

Con


Why would you assume this argument is copy/pasted from the Internet?

What I Copy/Pasted is in "Quotations".

For better or worse, I wrote it, (not particularly fond of it - but it's defendable).

Do you have a debate rule - that we can't substantiate arguments with references ???

I could make up quotations - but that wouldn't really be meaningful.
Debate Round No. 2
Rjupudi18

Pro

All you are doing is copying and pasting a bunch of unnecessary definitions. That's not what this debate is about. If you don't understand the topic, ignore it and don't waste everyone's time.
elikakohen

Con

First of all - I did not copy/paste those definitions - this is the third time I have tried (patiently) to explain that to you. Your accusation is completely unfounded - and merit-less :

Second of all - in debate - one of the biggest issues is equivocation - where people can end-up "talking-past" each other, not understanding even the definitions that the other party is using.

So - Even if I had copy/pasted definitions, it is still appropriate in debate.

Regardless - the merit of the arguments can be addressed separately from definitions - if you insist.
Debate Round No. 3
Rjupudi18

Pro

First of all, you defined what Judism, Christianity and Islam was which was not needed. Secondly, you didn't even state your position clearly. You were just all over the place comparing Islam to Judaism, Judaism to Christianity, Christianity to Islam and so on. The point of this debate is that Imwould bring arguments that would support my claim that Judaism is more similar to Christianity while Con is supposed to bring arguments that support that Judaism is more similar to Islam. You have done none of these and blathered out random words without stating your thesis.
elikakohen

Con



In Re.R4.Pro - ... "The point of this debate is that Imwould bring arguments that would support my claim that Judaism is more similar to Christianity "

I am still waiting. ...

(Unless you insist on "blathering" (as you call it) - on and on about why definitions are inappropriate in an initial round of debate. ...)

R4.Con.1 - Just in case you "missed it" :

From R1.Con.1 - First, Christianity defines itself by NOT being Rabbinical Judaism, that Judaism is Anti-Christ, (Anti-Messiah) :

That Traditional Judaism, in general rejects a "Messiah" that could resemble what Jesus did, and his representation of God. Specifically, that God desires Mercy, not Punishment / Sacrifice : That Advocacy for each-other supersedes any judgments under law - let alone condemnations under tradition.

These core premises are mutually exclusive.

From R1.Con.2 - Christianity and Islam - Acceptance of the World, not Just Abraham's Descendants :

Just an example of how Christianity and Islam further distance themselves from Judaism. The similarity of these fundamental truths - establish that

R4.Con.2 - Similarities and Differences that "Matter" :

Consequently, by appealing to two fundamental precepts, (that mercy triumphs over judgment, and God's acceptance of the world) - I am in effect arguing that any other similarities are merely superficial at best - in the ways that matter.
Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by elikakohen 1 year ago
elikakohen
I was actually warned not to accept this debate. This really should be reset.
Posted by boozeandbabble 1 year ago
boozeandbabble
Dumbazz debate by dumbazz people.
Posted by fred70 1 year ago
fred70
Rjupudi18 vs ElikaKohen: Thiis debate is absolutely riveting! I hope you ole chums do many, MANY more of them. I would actually pay money to see this debate in person.

Rjubudi18 I'm sorry. I can't have this debate if you simply copy and paste stuff of the Internet. That's not what this debate is about. If you don't understand the topic, ignore it and don't waste everyone's time.
ElikaKohen: First of all - I did not copy/paste those definitions - this is the third time I have tried (patiently) to explain that to you. Your accusation is completely unfounded - and merit-less.

The suspense is killing me! How will Rjubudi18 respond in round four.
(I'm anticipating a haymaker)
Posted by fred70 1 year ago
fred70
Elika,
As far as Christianity is concerned, my understanding was that after 70 a.d, Gnostics replaced the Judaizers in the Church's "Damned Devil Heretics List."

Those Yemenite jews and them Shitite muslims? Who won? I can't remember!
I'll send'em a fruit basket. ( If the Shitites won, my apologies, I meant to say Shia)
Posted by elikakohen 1 year ago
elikakohen
@rjupudi - I am pretty sure I made two quotations, and they are in quotes. Granted, one isn't indented like the other. But hey, for better or worse - it's what I wrote.

Why on earth would you assume I plagiarized it???

@fred70 - A "slight" correction - Rabbinic Judaism did a LOT of proselytizing - after the temple was destroyed. Unfortunately, it was intended to wipe out every other form of Judaism that rejected "The Oral Law", (to include Christinaity). Maimonides' "Epistle to Yemen", and Yemeni Jewish history is a brutal history.

Technically * - in Israel today, that counts as proselytizing. :D
Posted by Rjupudi18 1 year ago
Rjupudi18
Did you write all of this yourself or did you copy and paste?
Posted by elikakohen 1 year ago
elikakohen
Apologies - I noticed a Copy and Paste Error - Right off the Bat - Defining Rabbinic Judaism in view of the "Oral Law" :

Mamrim 3:1 - Since it has become known -- that such a person denies the Oral Law, -- he may be pushed into a pit and may not be helped out. He is like all the rest of the heretics who say that the Torah is not Divine in origin, those who inform on their fellow Jews, and the apostates. All of these are not considered as members of the Jewish people. -- There is no need for witnesses --, a warning, or judges for them -- to be executed --. Instead, whoever kills them performs a great mitzvah and removes an obstacle from people at large.
Posted by fred70 1 year ago
fred70
Judaism is an exclusive religion, it discourages converts. Judaism is happy to leave goyim(nations of the earth) to the 7 noahide laws. It doesn't preach those 7 laws to gentiles because islam\christianity contain those 7 laws. At one time Jews sought converts:
Josephus writes of this. So does the bible. Jesus said the Jews were willing to cross sea and earth to make one convert. After the destruction of the temple in 70 a.d. and especially the failed revolt of the mid 2nd century, rabbinical Judaism essentially outlawed proselytizing.
Islam\christianity hold to a doctrine called "total depravity". They both teach mankind are hopelessly subjugated to their sinful condition. They both assert that only God can save an individual. Judaism rejects this. Judaism teaches that only the Jew can save the world through his observation of the Torah.
Posted by Anon1984 1 year ago
Anon1984
I tried to message you, wouldn't let me, so I sent a debate challenge saying I wanted to debate this topic with you but I read the topic wrong. For some reason after I read it I was thinking it was whether Christianity is closer to Islam or Judaism and wanted to take the position that Islam is more similar to Christianity than Judaism. So please just reject my challenge, unless it messes with your score or something. Sorry new to the site so still figuring out how it all works. Thanks
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