The Instigator
CapAhab
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
iTruthSeeker
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Judas was right to betray Jesus.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
CapAhab
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/10/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 375 times Debate No: 86411
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

CapAhab

Pro

Round 1 - Opening Arguments Only (No rebuttals)
Round 2 - Rebuttals Only
Round 3 - Counter-Rebuttals
Round 4 - Counter-Rebuttals
Round 5 - Closing Arguments and Closing Statements

The Hebrew Bible (Old testament) will be the only authoritative word of G-d. New Testament can be use to prove a point. This is to see if the New Testament is an authoritative document or not.
iTruthSeeker

Con

I accept.

Although the question is a bit ambiguous..
Debate Round No. 1
CapAhab

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for this debate.

I would like to invent a story to prove my point.

After a very long journey to Jerusalem just before the passover, Yehudas b'Iscariot (Judas Iscariot) met accidental his father Bob (Yehubert in Hebrew) (invented name because he name is not mention in the NT). His father exited to see his son invited him for a meal and to see the things he learn while following his Rabbi Yeshua (Jesus).

So Bob asked his son Yehudas what he was learning from his teacher Yeshua.

"I am quite exited daddy" said Judas "Yeshua is the messiah!"

"Really" Said Bob "That would be such a great news to have those Romans sent back where they belong have to have our land back. We only want peace! Finally G-d answered our prayers as in the time of Moses."

"No" Said Judas "you don't get it. The messiah is god! Yeshua received worship! He forgives sins, there is no gods but him"

"The messiah is god?" said bob "Are you saying that Yeshua is god!"

"Listen my son, you remember when we read the Torah (law) of Moses."

"Yes" said Judas

"Well, I have been teaching you since you were a youth, and G-d was clear in His words. If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:16). Furhtermore, G-d is not a man! Numbers 23:19"

"You don't understand Daddy, he is the messiah!" said Judas

"Why you said so my son?" said Bob

"Well, the miracles! Yeshua could not cast out demons by the power of baalzebub! He resurrected people!"

"Well, my son. This is not a way to determine if a prophet comes from G-d. Remember what Torah (Law) said: and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder , and the prophet says,"Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them... YOU Shall not listen, my son!" Did you grand-pa ever worship Yeshua? Then he is a new god! "

"What should I do daddy!" Said Judas

"That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you."

And so Judas did. He went to the authority that G-d put in place, the High Priest, as prescribed by the word of the L-rd by his servant Moses.

There is now way to see Judas action as wrong, if Jesus claimed to be god.
iTruthSeeker

Con

Hello friends! I thank my opponent for holding this debate. I will plainly state that Judas WAS NOT RIGHT to betray Jesus.

My whole case will be built on rebutting my opponents case therefore, I have no need for an opening argument. My opponent places the BOP on himself and describes how the OT permits the betrayal of Jesus.

I will show in the later rounds how the OT does not permit this according to Jesus claims.

I await my opponents further response.
Debate Round No. 2
CapAhab

Pro

I already stated my arguments. I will wait for my opponent counter-argument.

Thank you
iTruthSeeker

Con

My opponent has decided to present his case in a "hypothetical format".. I will skip through the unnecessary stuff and dive right into the meat..

He states:
"The messiah is god?" said bob "Are you saying that Yeshua is god!"

"Listen my son, you remember when we read the Torah (law) of Moses."

"Yes" said Judas

"Well, I have been teaching you since you were a youth, and G-d was clear in His words. If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods (Deuteronomy 13:16). Furthermore, G-d is not a man! Numbers 23:19"

The first premise is completely false.. Jesus was not claiming to be "another god" He was claiming to be Yahweh incarnate...

57So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM." John 8:58

*this is a reference to the Exodus 3:14 were God was speaking to Moses: "God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'".. Jesus is equating himself as Yahweh!

"I and the Father are one, The Jews picked up stones again to stone him." John 10:30

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?"

So we see that Jesus was not enticing others to worship other gods at all. Jesus never claimed that he was another god.. but rather, He was Yahweh himself coming to free the people from their sins.

This does not break the Levitical law giving Judas no right to betray Jesus.

My opponent then continues: "Well, my son. This is not a way to determine if a prophet comes from G-d. Remember what Torah (Law) said: and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder , and the prophet says,"Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them... YOU Shall not listen, my son!" Did you grand-pa ever worship Yeshua? Then he is a new god! "

I've already shown how Jesus was not claiming to be "another god' But rather Yahweh himself.. Listen to what Jesus says:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also" - John 14-7

8Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." 9Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father '? 10"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. John 14:9…

As we can see.. Jesus is showing both the Pharisees and His disciples that He is from the Father (Elohim) and they are One. He also claims that if they knew the Father (Elohim) they would know Him.

So nowhere in the Bible do we see Jesus claiming to be a separate entity from the Father but rather the same.. He is not another God.. Thus not breaking the levitical law.

Judas had no right to betray him.. Judas killed the Lord for 30 pieces of silver... Was Judas happy about his decision?

Then when Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” They said, “What is that to us? See to it yourself.” And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself. Matthew 27:3-10

My friend... Judas himself knew that he was in the wrong to the point of killing himself. He was not in the right according to the OT law whatsoever..

My opponents case stands rebutted.

Back to Pro



Debate Round No. 3
CapAhab

Pro

So Judas had doubts and came back to his father asking several questions.

He started asking "Listen daddy, Jesus was not claiming to be "another god" He was claiming to be YVHV incarnate... "

"Don't use the name of the L-rd in vain my son! Anyway, remember your great-great-great-great grand-pa! He was there at mount Sinai. What did he see there? G-d warned exactly your grand-pa, saying to teach what he saw to his son and so forth!

Only be careful, and watch yourselves closely so that you do not forget the things your eyes have seen or let them fade from your heart as long as you live. Teach them to your children and to their children after them. 10 Remember the day you stood before the Lord your God at Horeb, when he said to me, "Assemble the people before me to hear my words so that they may learn to revere me as long as they live in the land and may teach them to their children." 11 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. 12 Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.

Your grand-pa saw NO FORM. G-d repeated twice in His word! And G-d say not to turn from the right or from the left. Remember son, G-d is not a man that he should lie! G-d is not lying when he say that your grand-pa saw no form, are you telling me that G-d was lying or that G-d changed his mind? He is not a son of man that he should change his mind!"

"But daddy, said Judas, Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.""

"Well, son, You should not have other gods before me! Remember Deuteronomy 32 See now that I myself am he!
There is no (jesus) god besides me.

"Judas said "Jesus is showing both the Pharisees and His disciples that He is from the Father (Elohim) and they are One.""

"OK, son! you don't get it... The Emperor claims to be god, the pharaoh, antiochus epiphanes, and Nebbucadnezar as well! Because Jesus said he is god does not make it so! Remember the person starting this debate said that the New testament was not considered authoritative... Well, because we are checking if Jesus was actually saying something that made sense!"

Now, seriously, my opponent only used the New Testament to prove his point, but as per the Law, G-d said it clearly.

"Then when Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself." And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed, and he went and hanged himself. Matthew 27:3-10"

Are you so sure? The letters of Paul are the closer to the new testament. And Paul said it himself "and that he (Jesus) appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve."

My argument stands, as G-d would not, as per the Hebrew Bible, go and incarnate a man. Judas was right... as it is written

It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt (and said HE has NO Body, and said there was nobody else with HIM) and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
iTruthSeeker

Con

iTruthSeeker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
CapAhab

Pro

As Paul said: "as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless."

Faultless after participating in the killing of Stephen? I guess he did not consider it as sin, because he was zealous to keep G-d words in his Torah. That is, until he got a heat stroke on the way to Damascus.
iTruthSeeker

Con

I will need to concede my argument due to time constraints.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by famousdebater 11 months ago
famousdebater
CapAhabiTruthSeekerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
U.n
CapAhabiTruthSeekerTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeited turn by Con.