The Instigator
Raistlin
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
pivot
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Judging by his actions alone and not his claims, the God of the Bible isn't perfectly morally good.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/20/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 357 times Debate No: 70390
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Raistlin

Pro

I'll be taking the "devil's advocate" position in this debate. The burden of proof is on me. I will attempt to show the God of the Bible (hereafter God) is not perfectly morally good as he claims to be by looking at the Bible and the real world. The first round is for acceptance only.

Good luck!
pivot

Con

Thanks for the opportunity to debate such an important topic. The Bible is a tough nut to crack.
Debate Round No. 1
Raistlin

Pro

The best way to see the utter brutality of God is by simply reading the Bible, and that is what I will do this round.

Allow me to begin with a simple proposition: killing innocent children is morally wrong. Now, let's list several instances in which God either kills innocent children or orders their deaths.

Exodus 11:4-5 "So Moses said, 'This is what the Lord says: "About midnight I will go throughout Egypt. Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the female slave, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.'"

1 Samuel 15:3 (this is God talking) "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."

There are several other examples, but I wanted to save my "favorite" for my next point: it is immoral to punish unwilling innocents for the sins of others. God seems to disagree. Here are several instances, one of which overlaps with child killing.

Exodus 20:5-6 "I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments."

Deuteronomy 23:2 "No one born of a forbidden marriage nor any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, not even in the tenth generation."

Last but not least, an innocent baby killed for his father to be forgiven.

2 Samuel 12:13-14 "13 Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord."
Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the Lord, the son born to you will die." The completely innocent son died less than a week after being born, but David was forgiven of murder.

Finally, God condones slavery in the Old and New Testaments. Slavery is clearly immoral, so God is also immoral. God's law condones treating slaves as mere property, deeply dehumanizing the people enslaved at his behest.

Leviticus 25:44-46 "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."

Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

1 Timothy 6:1 "All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God"s name and our teaching may not be slandered."

The God of the Bible condones slavery, murder of children, and punishing unwilling innocents for the sins of others. An omnibenevolent being would not do these things. Therefore, God isn't perfectly morally good.

Good luck to con.
pivot

Con

Rebuttal: Pro"s list of grievances are not exclusively Bible problems. These problems started before the Bible was written. The problems continue to this very day.
1 Untimely death of children (Exodus 11:4-5)
2 Death of innocent life during war (1 Samuel)
3 Rejection (Exodus 20 5-6)
4 Injustice (2 Samuel 12:13-14)
5 Slavery (Leviticus/Ephesians/Timothy)

The list while not exhaustive is universal. Universal to mankind.

Argument:
1 What Pro first needs to do is to establish the true identity of the bearer of the title "LORD". The word "LORD" is not a name it is a title not unlike the title Pharaoh or Caesar or King etc. And then admit that-

2 Everyone is going to die
3 All of mankind is rejected
4 There is no true justice
5 We are all slaves

Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. (I Chronicles 21:1)
Cross Reference
Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah." (II Samuel 24:1)

Satan transforms himself into LORD.
Cross Reference
God cannot be tempted by evil nor does he tempt anyone.
Debate Round No. 2
Raistlin

Pro

Raistlin forfeited this round.
pivot

Con

pivot forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Raistlin

Pro

Raistlin forfeited this round.
pivot

Con

pivot forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Lee001 2 years ago
Lee001
morally good in what kind of way?
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