The Instigator
Freethinker98
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Jury rights the judge won't tell you

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/9/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 769 times Debate No: 37538
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

Freethinker98

Pro

Jurors should have the right to judge the law also get paid lots more money also jury duty should be voluntary(not forced) and not have their 13th amendment violated fined and/or jailed.And refuse to take an oath to prevent the option of judging a law,then allowed to serve without fear.
imabench

Con

"Jurors should have the right to judge the law"

They are meant to judge the innocence/guilt of people accused of breaking the law. Its the duty of the government to judge laws that are directly challenged rather then have juries waste time over it.




"also get paid lots more money"


Do you know how many trials there are in the US every day? there must be at least a couple million going on, and to pay all 12 or so jurors in each and every last case a handsome amount of money would drive the nation into bankruptcy.




"also jury duty should be voluntary(not forced)"


Nobody ever f*cking volunteers to be on jury duty, if it was voluntary then nobody would ever sign up for it.




"and not have their 13th amendment violated fined and/or jailed."


The f*ck does the 13th amendment have to do with anything? The 13th amendment is the amendment that abolished slavery, what the hell does it have to do with juries?




"And refuse to take an oath to prevent the option of judging a law,then allowed to serve without fear."


Does taking the oath even cause people to fear giving a ruling?
Debate Round No. 1
Freethinker98

Pro

your worried about juries wasting time while also judging a law!? which is their right and prosecutors and judges keep secret because it takes power from them which you seem to love them to have an unlimited amount of.with prosecutors typically overcharging defendants with the hopes that something will stick to drop some charges later to try to avoid the time and expense of a trial and seem merciful which they know it's very difficult to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. and mandatory sentencing a jury never waste time by carefully seeing every part of the story before ruining (possibly, innocent persons life for life)with only circumstantial evidence.which may or may not be true.not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.so companies if the jurors work foot the bill and don't go bankrupt!?With about 17 trillion dollars in debt and growing the usa is still not bankrupt!?better spend it on jurors than unnecessary wars,welfare state,etc.As for the nobody would ever f*cking volunteer.It was the same for the military nobody would volunteer to fight in wars and there is no draft yet people volunteer so your f*cking wrong.As for the 13th amendment you left out involuntary servitude which deals with jury duty and military draft that many people don't want to do.hence,involuntary servitude which is a kind of f*cking slavery.many people on the jury are unfortunately sheep when the oath is forced on one. so yes some people are fearful of giving a ruling because of an oath one is afraid to reject in front of a judge.and afraid to hang the verdict if so desired.
imabench

Con

"your worried about juries wasting time while also judging a law!?"

Way to completely miss the point of that argument..... Juries are meant to determine guilt or innocence of someone in violation of the law, the legality of the laws themselves are handled in completely different courts and by completely different means.





"which is their right and prosecutors and judges keep secret because it takes power from them which you seem to love them to have an unlimited amount of with prosecutors typically overcharging defendants with the hopes that something will stick to drop some charges later to try to avoid the time and expense of a trial and seem merciful which they know it's very difficult to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."

1) You really need to learn how to use some f*cking punctuation

2) Youre entire argument is just an idiotic rant of everything you see wrong with the system by fabricating problems that dont exist, along with a gross misrepresentation of my position.

3) Theres also nothing wrong with prosecutors filing charges against defendants of the laws they violated. Thats kind of the point of the justice system.....







"With about 17 trillion dollars in debt and growing the usa is still not bankrupt!?better spend it on jurors than unnecessary wars,welfare state,et"

Jesus christ youre an idiot..... The point is that making the government pay huge sums of money to jurors is something they cant afford. You cant just retardedly claim 'oh well maybe we could afford it without all these wars and welfare' because that doesnt defeat the point that paying jurors a lot of money would be way too expensive for the government to handle.





"It was the same for the military nobody would volunteer to fight in wars and there is no draft yet people volunteer so your f*cking wrong"

Ok now im sure that youre retarded...... People volunteer for the military for a variety of reasons, some of which includes health insurance, payment for college, patriotism, etc. You dont get those same benefits by volunteering for jury duty so making it completely voluntary will result in nobody choosing to do it. Just ask any adult if they would ever willingly volunteer for jury duty and 100% of them will say no.





"some people are fearful of giving a ruling because of an oath one is afraid to reject in front of a judge.and afraid to hang the verdict if so desired."

So you think its bad that jurors should do the job they should be tasked with rather then throw out an entire court case because they are forced to uphold the law, and you would change that so that jurors could do whatever they want with complete disregard to the courts.............

Looks like this debate is already won.
Debate Round No. 2
Freethinker98

Pro

Prosecutors file charges in ALLEGED! violation of a law,And need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, to a JURY!which the prosecutor believes but belief is not truth. RETARD! more than 95% of the prosecutors wins are from many times unfair plea bargains. another mongolian idiotic claim That I fabricate problems which don't exist ,tell that to the hundreds of people that's been found guilty did years or decades in prison and by some miracle found innocent according to the innocence project and other sources, read a book. which in your idiotic world an innocent person can never be found or plea guilty.f*cking mongolian idiot.The main purpose of the military is to fight in wars and risk your life,not really worth those lovely benefits are they?one can get those benefits without risking your life.There are benefits to serving on the jury,your too stupid to know them!
imabench

Con

"Prosecutors file charges in ALLEGED! violation of a law,And need to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, to a JURY!which the prosecutor believes but belief is not truth. RETARD!"

Its their job to do exactly that f*ckwad.






"more than 95% of the prosecutors wins are from many times unfair plea bargains. another mongolian idiotic claim That I fabricate problems which don't exist "


You just fabricated a fake claim in the sentence right before you whine about me accusing you of making up false problems with the system that dont exist..... Thank you for proving my point.






" which in your idiotic world an innocent person can never be found or plea guilty.f*cking mongolian idiot"


I never said that in this world an innocent person can never be found guilty. Were you dropped on your head as a child or thrown against the wall?






"he main purpose of the military is to fight in wars and risk your life,not really worth those lovely benefits are they?"


They are to everyone who volunteered to serve in the army..... Like seriously put two and two together already.






"There are benefits to serving on the jury,your too stupid to know them!"


claiming that there are benefits to serving in jury duty and then failing to list a single benefit not only makes you look as retarded as a rock, it also just proves my argument that if jury duty were voluntary no one would sign up for it.


========================================================================================


List of arguments that dumba** over there dropped:

- Pro fails to list a single benefit people receive from serving in a jury
- Pro fails to counter the fact that if jury duty were voluntary, nobody would serve on it
- Pro drops the argument that its not a bad thing that juries should adhere to the oath they take and carry out the job they were selected to do
- Pro drops the argument that the job of the jury is to determine guilt or innocence, not the legality of the law that was violated
- Pro drops the argument that taking the oath somehow scares people out of doing the right thing
- Pro drops the argument that paying everyone on a jury handsomely would be horrendously expensive and that the country could never afford to do that
- Pro drops that its not necessarily bad that prosecutors file charges against people suspected of committing a crime

Vote Con
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by kyro90 3 years ago
kyro90
Freethinker98imabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: How can I say no to imabench? Hes freaking awesome.
Vote Placed by Naysayer 3 years ago
Naysayer
Freethinker98imabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I have no idea what just happened here.