The Instigator
Con (against)
7 Points
The Contender
Pro (for)
0 Points

Jury system for DDO

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/30/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,859 times Debate No: 28768
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)




The Jury system in question, as proposed is as follows.

- When creating a debate, the instigator may choose either the traditional voting method or the jury method.

- With the jury method, X active DDO members that are able to vote are randomly selected.

- The instigator and contender then agree on which of those will be selected to the jury.

- Members of the jury are obligated to vote on the debate for which they were selected for.

- No members outside the jury may vote on a jury debate.

- A separate leader board will be created for jury debates.

- Members must vote on at least Y jury debates each month (feel free to adjust the quantities and time frame as needed).

- If a member does not vote on at least Y, they will be excluded from ALL leader boards.

- If a member does not vote on at least Y jury debates because they were not selected for jury duty, they are exempt from being excluded from ALL leader boards.

The terms X and Y are unknown constants which would need to be worked out, but they would be some set number.

More discussion on this can be found in the following thread.

BOP for this debate will be shared. We will be discussing this option a la carte and not part of a larger group.

I thank everyone for taking the time to read, comment, and vote.


Before anything, X = 7 (need an odd number to increase chance of a winner, not a tie, and need decent range to avoid prejudiced bias)

As pro I have the right to amend the issue of the Y votes like this:


Amended rules:

A member can pick both methods of voting, they needn't pick one or the other since neither affects their place on the other leaderboard.

If member doesn't vote on 2 debates in a month (this could even vary from 1st Jan to 28th Feb and count), they are merely 'deactivated' from leaderboar (not their account). If they wish to re-enter leaderboard systems they must judge at least 2 a month, minimum of all members.



- Under "dashboard" will be a tab named 'jury duty' On this tab is an active/inactive button (which no needn't alter next time you sign in unless you wish to judge) and also you can select the subjects/topics of debate. (they need only wory about being avilable enough time for two a month, could even do those two the same day)

- All votes require FULL REASONINGS (which is why Y only equals 2)

- All votes are subject to be analyzed by Juggle and any in authority at the time, at DDO. If a member offers a troll reasoning for any kind, they can imediately be threatened with a ban unless they can justify to those in authority that the reason was genuine and sufficient.

- If a debate, like MouthWash and Danielle, where any illegal means of hakcing and/or glitching were used to engage in it, the jury can votebomb against the person using the glitch initially and responsible for it throughout debate (in this case MouthWash) and state because it was too long to read or whatever the glitch caused to happen.

Jury is good because it will avoid ties.
Debate Round No. 1


I thank my opponent for accepting the debate, and I hope they put their full effort into this.

There are a few issues with their additions, namely, any additions that are added after the debate is accepted is up to debate, and not automatically accepted. This is not like a debate with undefined words, but actually a debate where the jury method was defined prior to their acceptance of the debate.

== CON'S CASE ==

We have two major issues with the jury system that will be brought up in this debate. It will encourage abuse towards new members that are unfamiliar with DDO, and it will discourage honest voting by older members.

1) Abuse towards new members

The key to a successful jury system is both members being able to agree upon a set on unbias voters to judge the debate. However, should one member not be familiar with the biases of many DDO users, it allows the other member to control the jury and stack it in their favor. New members will also be less likely to understand the differences between a jury debate and an open voting debate, and so not understand the reasons to pick one of the other. As such we will likely see a wave of newb sniping in these Jury debates along political line.

This a bad for DDO for the reason that it make new members vulnerable to abuse, thus driving them away. Since DDO is a site that survives and grows off of new ideas and new members, such a policy would be bad for the future of DDO. If the membership stagnates, the growth of ideas dies out and the site will become dull and boring, and so older members will leave for somewhere else.

Should new members be driven away from staying, and old members flee out of boredom, the site will eventually die.

2) Dishonest voting

This is actually caused by the exception clause for jury debates, in that if you are not selected for Jury duty, you are not kicked off the leader boards for not participating. This creates the incentive for people to do what they can to not get picked for jury duty. The easiest way for that is to have poor voting. I for one, will say, that if any "jury system" forces me to vote, I will vote bomb all until people stop trying to force me to vote. Other prominent members have suggested that they would flat out leave if any system were to try and force them to do anything.

By vote bombing, I fulfill my obligation to vote, while at the same time help ensure that no one else will demand that I be a part of their jury. This is not unlike real world situations where people pretend to be racist and bigots just to avoid jury duty [1], as George Carlin said, "Tell the judge you'll make a great juror, as you can spot guilty people just by looking at them."

By doing so, I will be allowed to stay on the leader board, while the honest voters will continue to be targeted and forced to vote against their will. This is the best way to kill honest voting.

I will keep the round short with this and pass it on to my opponent.

Thank you,



RationalMadman forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


Since RM was not able to post due to the temp ban, I will pass on this round so that the debate can continue.

Thank you,


FIne but the point is that I have number one ties on DDO beca of lack of voting and am the perfect example of the issue at hand.
Debate Round No. 3


My opponent ignores the points about how this system would be bypassed and abused and insists that it would at least benefit them. With no refutations of the arguments and we are going into the final round I let this move on.

Thank you,


It is a corrupt system that I would benefit from.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Logical-Master 3 years ago
""OMG this is a great idea EXCEPT for the people must have Y amounts of votes etc etc, what if they can't vote?"

If they literally can't vote, it's presumably because they haven't authenticated (thus, more incentive to authenticate) or because they have been cheating or otherwise breaking the rules (more incentive to follow the rules.
Posted by Bull_Diesel 3 years ago
Interesting, don't think i've been here long enough to take this kind of debate but i'd probably be in favor of having a jury system as an option.
Posted by ishallannoyyo 3 years ago
OMG this is a great idea EXCEPT for the people must have Y amounts of votes etc etc, what if they can't vote? Will they be given exceptions for jury duty? And what if jury duty causes someone undue hardship? Can they get out of it?
Posted by Logical-Master 3 years ago
Thanks! Have a happy new year!
Posted by Ore_Ele 3 years ago
Actually I was saving some arguments for the debate, however I see the scheduling conflict. Best of luck with law school.
Posted by Logical-Master 3 years ago
Thanks for issuing the challenge, but I'm going to have to decline. After I finish my debates with Boshavik and Danielle, it's back to law school related matters for me.

Besides, I think all avenues of discussion have already been exhausted on the forum debate. Bottom line, you think my proposal creates class conflict and discourages members from voting/using DDO. I've held that class conflict is inherent within the system, that incentives and other tweakings would counter discouragement and that such a system would be a more effective counter to vote-bombing / bias than the status quo.
Posted by Ore_Ele 3 years ago
I'm thinking my avatar may not help my case.
Posted by imabench 3 years ago
favorited and watching
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Logical-Master 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: No explanation needed.