The Instigator
phil42
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Merrit
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points

Just for fun! Whether The Doctor Should Have Let Martha Travel With Him

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Merrit
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/29/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 655 times Debate No: 36118
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

phil42

Con

For all you Doctor Who fans out there, here's an argument for whether the Doctor should have let Martha travel with him. I am taking the negative side. Let the wonderful arguments begin!

Negative
1) The Doctor was heartbroken. Martha was interested i him which made it all the worse.
2) Martha was rude to the Doctor. She pushed the Doctor and asked from him more than he was willing to give. She didn't care about the fact that he just lost somebody, all she cared about was her own satisfaction.
3) Martha was selfish. She may have helped people and saved people, but ultimately she was just plain self-centered. She thought she was the most important woman on Earth.
4) Donna was way better for the Doctor. Understood that the Doctor needed a companion or hi "Master" would start showing. Donna was much better for him and pushed him only for the good of others.

These are the reasons I give that The Doctor should not have let Martha travel with him.
Merrit

Pro

Hello fellow Whovian! I wish you luck in the upcoming debate. I will be arguing that the Doctor was correct in letting Martha travel with him.

Rebuttal 1: My opponent states: "The Doctor was heartbroken. Martha was interested i him which made it all the worse."

Martha did not know the Doctor all that well when she met him. She was unaware that the Doctor lost someone important to him. Also, just because she likes him doesn't make her a bad person.

Rebuttal 2: "Martha was rude to the Doctor. She pushed the Doctor and asked from him more than he was willing to give. She didn't care about the fact that he just lost somebody, all she cared about was her own satisfaction."

I would need some examples of how she was rude. I ask my opponent to please expand on the subject.

Rebuttal 3: " Martha was selfish. She may have helped people and saved people, but ultimately she was just plain self-centered. She thought she was the most important woman on Earth."

Again, I would need examples of how she was rude. However, I can say that to my current understanding, helping others is not a self-centered act, but rather a selfless act.

In fact, the TARDIS Data Core describes Martha as: "Martha was an intelligent, brave and kind-hearted woman with a great sense of humour."[1]

Rebuttal 4: "Donna was way better for the Doctor. Understood that the Doctor needed a companion or hi "Master" would start showing. Donna was much better for him and pushed him only for the good of others."

Although I am not a fan of Donna, whether I like her or not some people do. Anyways, the resolution is about whether the Doctor should have let Martha travel with him. The resolution is not, however, whether or not Donna was a good influence on the Doctor.

Now that I have rebutted, I will now proceed to my arguments.

Argument 1: At this point in the series, the Doctor is feeling the pain over the loss of Rose Tyler. Martha is exactly what the Doctor needed at that moment in time. A companion would help cheer him up. Martha did in fact cheer him up, as the Doctor continued to travel with her throughout season 3.

Argument 2: If the Doctor did not want to travel with Martha, he would not. The Doctor is fully capable of saying no when he does not want something. If he did not want Martha being his companion, he would have said no.

Argument 3: If Martha wasn't the Doctor's companion, the Doctor, along with the whole world, would have perished because of the Master. [2][3] Clearly Martha was an essential influence in the Doctor's timeline.

Conclusion: Martha was a great influence on the Doctor. She is intelligent, and caring. Without her, the Doctor would not have company. The Doctor wanted Martha to travel with him. Knowing the Doctor, when the Doctor wants something, he is always right in his decision. Furthermore and more importantly, without the Doctor letting Martha travel with him, the Doctor and the world would die. For these reasons, the Doctor was correct in letting Martha travel with him.

It is now my opponent's turn to rebut, and produce further evidence of her claim. Remember, bow ties ARE cool (along with fezzes.)

Sources:
[1]: http://tardis.wikia.com...
[2]: http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3]: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
phil42

Con

Thank you for debating with me Merrit! My opponent makes good points, but I will now rebut them. Now I will be responding to your argument that the Doctor should have let Martha travel with him. Allons-y!

1) "At this point in the series, the Doctor is feeling the pain over the loss of Rose Tyler. Martha is exactly what the Doctor needed at that moment in time. A companion would help cheer him up. Martha did in fact cheer him up, as the Doctor continued to travel with her throughout season 3."

I agree that the Doctor needed a companion to help cheer him up. But I would like to remind you that Martha left the Doctor, which was not good at all for the Doctor. And it certainly did not cheer him up. Because of Martha, he made sure not to let his next companion fall in love with him. If the Doctor needed a companion, Donna was the way to go. The Doctor stated to Donna, "We had the best of times." If he had stuck with Donna from the first time they met, he would never have had Martha to leave him heartbroken yet again.

2) "If the Doctor did not want to travel with Martha, he would not. The Doctor is fully capable of saying no when he does not want something. If he did not want Martha being his companion, he would have said no."

The Doctor, just like us, does not always know what's best from him. Unlike we would like to believe, he is not perfect. He makes mistakes. As we see in "The Stolen Earth," the Doctor has turned Martha into a weapon. Martha is actually willing to destroy the earth. The Doctor surely did not want this to happen, and the only way it could have been prevented is if Martha had never traveled with the Doctor. So not only would it have been beneficial to the Doctor, it could've been beneficial to the world.

3) "If Martha wasn't the Doctor's companion, the Doctor, along with the whole world, would have perished because of the Master. [2][3] Clearly Martha was an essential influence in the Doctor's timeline."

Again, the Doctor needed a companion, and Donna could've been excellent.

I would like to thank my opponent for arguing with me, and it is now his turn to rebut.
And don't forget to carry a banana!
Merrit

Pro

Rebuttals:

1.
Con states: " I would like to remind you that Martha left the Doctor, which was not good at all for the Doctor. And it certainly did not cheer him up."

If Donna's family went through what Martha's did, Donna would have made the same choice. Martha did not want to leave, but she made the right choice in leaving to protect her family.

2. Pro proceeds and states: " Because of Martha, he made sure not to let his next companion fall in love with him. If the Doctor needed a companion, Donna was the way to go."

It's not Martha's fault for falling in love with the doctor. Also, the Doctor did not want to travel with Donna at first. Something he did not want would not cheer him up.

3. Pro also states: "Unlike we would like to believe, he is not perfect. He makes mistakes. As we see in "The Stolen Earth," the Doctor has turned Martha into a weapon. Martha is actually willing to destroy the earth. The Doctor surely did not want this to happen, and the only way it could have been prevented is if Martha had never traveled with the Doctor. So not only would it have been beneficial to the Doctor, it could've been beneficial to the world."

I concede the first two points. However, it was not Martha's fault. Even so, Martha didn't blow up the world. She was going to, but other forces prevented her from doing so. She was think on the scale of the universe. Better one world then all.

4. Pro says: "Again, the Doctor needed a companion, and Donna could've been excellent."

True, but it doesn't negate the fact that if the Doctor did not have Martha, the world, and then the universe would have perished.

Argument:

1.
Donna is evil. You can determine this from her quote in the episode "The Doctor's Daughter:" " Oi, Oi! Alright, cool the beans, Rambo!" [1] She obviously thinks beans are cool.

The Doctor has said: "Beans are evil. Bad, bad beans." [2]





Now, if beans are evil, and Donna likes beans, that means Donna likes evil! Therefore, through the transitive property, Donna is evil!

2. Martha does not like beans. Therefore, Martha does not like evil, because beans are evil

3. She is independent. She does not regret leaving the Doctor, and left him on her terms, not his.

4. She did not go back to living a normal life. She joined UNIT and worked for Tourchwood. She was the only companion that used her experience with the Doctor in her career.

Nevertheless, the Doctor chose Martha as a companion and it worked out great. It didn't end up in tragedy like it did for the other companions.

Sources:

[1]: http://drwhotranscripts.blogspot.com...
Debate Round No. 2
phil42

Con

1) Pro states "Martha did not want to leave, but she made the right choice in leaving to protect her family."

The way I remember it, Martha just used her family as a cover up for the real reason she was leaving the Doctor. She left him because he didn't love her. Also remember that Donna's family has been put at risk as well, but she doesn't want to leave the Doctor. She is willing to stay with him forever.

2) Pro says "It's not Martha's fault for falling in love with the doctor. Also, the Doctor did not want to travel with Donna at first. Something he did not want would not cheer him up."

This is also false. The Doctor wanted very much to travel with Donna. He was the one that asked her, and she refused. So I can't see how that could mean he didn't want to travel with Donna.

3) Pro says "She was going to, but other forces prevented her from doing so. She was think on the scale of the universe. Better one world then all"

Something the Doctor makes clear to all his companions is that there's always a way out! Destroying the world is definitely not a compromise. It's giving up. The Doctor is disapointed in Martha for standing up to the Osterhagen key.

1) Pro argues " Donna is evil. You can determine this from her quote in the episode "The Doctor's Daughter:" " Oi, Oi! Alright, cool the beans, Rambo!" [1] She obviously thinks beans are cool.

The Doctor has said: "Beans are evil. Bad, bad beans." [2]Now, if beans are evil, and Donna likes beans, that means Donna likes evil! Therefore, through the transitive property, Donna is evil!

The fact that the phrase "cool the beans" means to lower the temperature of the beans completely negates this argument

2)"Martha does not like beans. Therefore, Martha does not like evil, because beans are evil"

I have no evidence that Martha does not like beans. The rhyme goes "beans, beans, are good for your heart!" Martha is a nurse, so if anything, she would like beans since they are good for you, which makes Martha the evil one here.

3)"She is independent. She does not regret leaving the Doctor, and left him on her terms, not his."

I agree, but I cannot see how this supports pro in any way

4)"She did not go back to living a normal life. She joined UNIT and worked for Tourchwood. She was the only companion that used her experience with the Doctor in her career."

The Doctor isn't a huge fan of Torchwood. They tried to hold him captive after all. So why should this be relevant in any way?

Thank you for debating with me Merrit! Before I go, I just want to say you were fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And you know what? So was I!
Merrit

Pro

As I am not allowed to present new arguments in the final round, I will negate my opponents rebuttals.

Rebuttals:

1)
Pro rebutts: " The way I remember it, Martha just used her family as a cover up for the real reason she was leaving the Doctor. She left him because he didn't love her. Also remember that Donna's family has been put at risk as well, but she doesn't want to leave the Doctor. She is willing to stay with him forever."

Yes, it is true that Donna's family went through a lot as well, but no where near to the extent of Martha's parents. Martha's parents were captured, used, and abused by the Master.[1][2][3] If Donna's parents/grandpa went through what Martha's went through, Donna would leave the Doctor to protect her family. The Doctor agreed with Martha, and that is why the Doctor took away Donna's memory, to protect her and her family.

Point negated.

2) Pro states: "This is also false. The Doctor wanted very much to travel with Donna. He was the one that asked her, and she refused. So I can't see how that could mean he didn't want to travel with Donna."

Sorry my bad, I forgot that. Anyways, this shows that the Doctor wanted someone to travel with. If Donna rejected the Doctor, then the Doctor was right in letting Martha travel with him. Donna passed up on the Doctors offer, so it's not the Doctor's fault.

3) Pro states: "Something the Doctor makes clear to all his companions is that there's always a way out! Destroying the world is definitely not a compromise. It's giving up. The Doctor is disapointed in Martha for standing up to the Osterhagen key."

This is a good point but it doesn't hold water. This is because in the season one finale (new series), the Doctor faced a similar decision. [4] The Doctor was going to destroy all the Daleks and humans with a delta wave. He was going to kill the world to save the universe. The same situation Martha was in. Both of them didn't blow up the world. Therefore, the Doctor and Martha made similar decisions. If the Doctor was disapointed in Martha, then he was a hypocrite because he did the same thing: almost kill humanity.

4) Pro attempts to negate my argument about Donna being evil by arguing: "The fact that the phrase "cool the beans" means to lower the temperature of the beans completely negates this argument."

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. To determine Donna's objective is, we have to analyse the situation. The beans were on a high temperature.

Let's define cook: "Prepare (food, a dish, or a meal) by combining and heating the ingredients in various ways." [5]


This means that the beans were cooking.

Now, I'll define kill: "Cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing)."

Ok, so the beans were cooking. Cooking causes the beans cells to die. Therefore, cooking the beans means that the beans were being killed. Donna said to cool the beans, meaningly to reduce the temperature. If you reduce the temperature, they are no longer being cooked. Therefore, the beans are no longer being killed.

If Donna stopped the beans from dying, she saved the beans. Now, if beans are evil, she saved something evil! Donna wants evil things to survive! (Perhaps Donna is preparing a bean army to attack the Doctor! Just kidding!)

5) Pro states: "I have no evidence that Martha does not like beans. The rhyme goes "beans, beans, are good for your heart!" Martha is a nurse, so if anything, she would like beans since they are good for you, which makes Martha the evil one here."

First of all, that is not a rhyme. Second, Martha has never stated she likes beans, or has never shown that she likes beans. When someone likes something, the express their like for it. For example, the Doctor likes bow ties. You can see this because he wears bow ties and exclaims: "Bow ties are cool!" Donna has expressed that she wants to save evil beans, there fore liking them. However, Martha doesn't express her like for breans.

6) Pro states: "I agree, but I cannot see how this supports pro in any way."

This shows that the Doctor was right in choosing Martha as a companion. Being indepenent is a good thing, and helps the Doctor because he doesn't need to look out for Martha. She knows what she is doing.

7) Pro also states: "The Doctor isn't a huge fan of Torchwood. They tried to hold him captive after all. So why should this be relevant in any way?"

It may be true that the Doctor doesn't like Tourchwood, but it shows that Martha valued what the Doctor taught her.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hahaha, I like your quote at the end. I would like to thank you for an excellent debate as well. Just remember to keep calm and don't even blink. Not once.

Sources:
[1]:http://tardis.wikia.com...(TV_story)

[2]: http://tardis.wikia.com...(TV_story)

[3]: http://tardis.wikia.com...(TV_story)

[4]: http://tardis.wikia.com...(TV_story)

[5]:http://www.google.com...

[6]:http://www.google.com...;
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Merrit 4 years ago
Merrit
It was fun. Thank you as well.
Posted by phil42 4 years ago
phil42
Haha, that was fun! Thanks again for debating!
Posted by phil42 4 years ago
phil42
Haha, that was fun! Thanks again for debating!
Posted by phil42 4 years ago
phil42
likin the picture, Merrit
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ameliamk1 4 years ago
Ameliamk1
phil42MerritTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:15 
Reasons for voting decision: Let's break it down. S&G is tied. Arguments is almost tied, making me wish I could split the points, but pro takes the edge, countering cons biggest point about Martha almost destroying the world with the fact that the Doctor did the same thing. Sources also go to pro, because of con's lack of them. I will also give conduct to con because I feel they deserve a point, but if you need a reason I guess it's because of the dumb bean thing pro brought up. Good job, both of you!