The Instigator
dinokiller
Pro (for)
Losing
18 Points
The Contender
Smitchell
Con (against)
Winning
50 Points

Justin Bieber shouldn't be hated.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/26/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,495 times Debate No: 13787
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (38)
Votes (13)

 

dinokiller

Pro

This debate is all about Justin Bieber, so I expect someone who hates justin bieber to accept this challenge, but also before you begin accusing/hate him of something, BRING ME CONCRETE PROOF.

Arguments are posted at round 2.
Smitchell

Con

Well, this could be fun!
Debate Round No. 1
dinokiller

Pro

Ok, i first thank my opponent for accepting this debate, I hope the best wins.
Also the last rule i add is NO VOTING FOR YOURSELF.

My arguments why Justin shouldn't be hated:
Justin Bieber became target of various internet pranks and hoax just because of he sounds younger then his age is. This is absolutely no reason to hate him other then being jealous at him because he was succesfull and you not.

A. Hackers have been tweaking with his Youtube accounts and Last.Fm images whereupon if you enter these sites, you get redirected to either porn sites or hoaxes about Justin Bieber dead from a car accident. This may be a prank and worth a laugh, but the aftereffect and damages are too great. Young fans would enter his profile, but instead getting redirected to porn sites or him being dead. Youtube had to spend hours to fix this error as does Last.Fm.

B. His songs may not be great, but it was praised by various groups and it even entered the top 10. His songs entered the top 10 list, he got rich, isn't friendless and concerns safety above all else, so why the hate when he is succesfull?

C. He recently has been accused of being a gay or girl and has been hated for that since but, no proof was shown that he was either girl or gay, only an accusation. And with him having dated alot of girls how can he be gay?

D. No one of the haters has ever met Justin Bieber and yet, people hates him. I say we also shouldn't judge the book by its cover.
Smitchell

Con

Firstly, I shall address each point made, as well as introduce some reasons why it is perfectly okay to hate Justin Beiber, or for that matter, anyone.

A. The hackers attacking Justin Beiber is wrong, yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with why people shouldn't hate him. There is a huge difference between hating Justin, and hacking onto his youtube. This whole point is true, in that it was wrong to hack his account, but relevant to the debate? No, because people shouldn't not hate Justin because hacking is wrong....

B. Music and taste is all a matter of opinion, and if people chose to hate him because of his music, it is because they do not like his music. Just because a song enters the top 10, that does not mean his music is 'good' in the opinion of everybody, just his demographic. You ask "why the hate when he is succesfull?", but this is part of the reason for hate, because he is succesfull without any of the work normal people put in, and without, in their opinion, any talent.

C. OK, so there is no proof that he is gay, or a girl for that matter (debatable :) (1)), but the fact is that, again, these rumors are created from the hate, and do not lead to the hate. Therefore, you can't say people shouldn't hate him because the rumors are false, because that is not what leads to the hate. If it was the rumors leading to the hate, sure, you could easily say that since the rumors are false, the hate is on a false premise, but since this is not the premise for the hate, there is no link between these rumors and the hate.

D. Sure, people have not met Justin Bieber, however that does not mean they do not know about them. To use you're book metaphor, they are not judging the book my it's cover, but instead by it's blurb, it's reviews, from an extract they have read. They have not met Justin Bieber, yet can still gain an insight into him based on several factors, which I shall show below.

So, moving onto some substantive as to why hating Justin Bieber is perfectly legitimate.

A. Freedom of Choice - In short, if people chose to hate Justin Bieber, just like anybody else, they have the freedom to do so. The reason for doing so is down to the person, and in the end nobody can tell him that he should not hate Justin Bieber. Everybody is different, and therefore different people appeal to others, and just because certain attributes to one person are reasons he should not be hated, these may be reasons people hate him in the first place.

B. So why do people hate Justin Bieber? Well aside from any unique qualms they have, there are some pretty key reasons.
1. Stupidity/Lack of Talent - Probably the biggest issue people have with Justin Bieber is his sheer lack of real world knowledge. Take for example his tour to New Zealand, where he was interviewed on C4 Select Live and didn't know what German was (2), as they don't have that in America. Perhaps he can be forgiven for not understanding the kiwi accent right (I mean, everybody else can but hey...)? But then he showed him the card with it written on it, so he is either A) Highly ignorant or B) Illiterate, either way showing that he has nowhere near the intelligence of many people, and yet he still has more fame, more money, more success, despite never working properly. One of the comments shows this as the premise of hate for this particular hater (Forgive the grammar, it's his second language) "I didnt had any reason to hate justin bieber, but now, he doesn't know what germany is??? its my homecountry you ------------"
2. His personality. This is the personality reflected to the public, and can give a fair indication of what he is like. The obvious argument here is that this does not reflect his true personality, but the fact of the matter is that this is what people see and hear, and these are actions he has taken himself, with full knowledge of the potential public reactions. A simple parallel here is Tiger Woods, who is now hated by many due to a series of actions which may not truly represent him or his true character, but have been shown to the public. The two examples I would like to bring are firstly, Justin Bieber assaulting a 12 y.o boy at laser tag. "A 12-year-old boy was assaulted in a Richmond entertainment facility. The boy sustained minimal injuries and did not require medical attention at the time," says RCMP's Annie Linteau. (3) After the 12-year-old complained about being hit by Justin Bieber, the singer was thrown out of the facility. (4). Admittedly he was provoked by verbal abuse, however everybody undergoes this at some point in their lives, and you learn the most about a person when the chips are down, and how they react. In this case, Justin definitely did not react in a way made for us to admire him, but instead a way that doesn't speak volumes for his character.
Next, however, is an arguably worse case, which shows him as selfish and self-centered, to the point where his actions harm his own mother to the point where she had to get legal support (5). The fact that his own mother did not read his autobiography until after its release, and that his own mother is being left out of his business life, when really he owes her a huge debt.

So to sum up, We can see that the hackers has no relation to whether or not people should hate Justin, we see that music depends on the listener, and that therefore it is wrong to say he shouldn't be hated due to his good music, and we can see that accusations again have no relevance. We can also see that there is much more to the cover that Justin has shown to the public, and therefore they have many more reasons to hate him, such as ignorance and personality. Lastly, we have seen that it is peoples right to be able to hate him, or feel whatever feelings towards him, and sayign he should not be hated is akin to saying someone should not be loved.

(1) http://www.dailymail.co.uk...
(2) Video above.
(3) http://www.news1130.com...
(4) http://www.nowpublic.com...
(5) http://www.cbsnews.com...
Debate Round No. 2
dinokiller

Pro

My point is not about not allowing to hate Justin Bieber. Its perfectly fine to have your opinion on people. But he has been punished too cruelly by everyonefor a very very long time now.

A. The hackers attacking Justin Beiber is wrong, yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with why people shouldn't hate him. There is a huge difference between hating Justin, and hacking onto his youtube. This whole point is true, in that it was wrong to hack his account, but relevant to the debate? No, because people shouldn't not hate Justin because hacking is wrong....

Hmph, i was merely giving an example of hatred. Even so, this is still hate and since you agree with and say its wrong, this argument has been approved by you.

B. Music and taste is all a matter of opinion, and if people chose to hate him because of his music, it is because they do not like his music. Just because a song enters the top 10, that does not mean his music is 'good' in the opinion of everybody, just his demographic. You ask "why the hate when he is succesfull?", but this is part of the reason for hate, because he is succesfull without any of the work normal people put in, and without, in their opinion, any talent.

C. OK, so there is no proof that he is gay, or a girl for that matter (debatable :) (1)), but the fact is that, again, these rumors are created from the hate, and do not lead to the hate. Therefore, you can't say people shouldn't hate him because the rumors are false, because that is not what leads to the hate. If it was the rumors leading to the hate, sure, you could easily say that since the rumors are false, the hate is on a false premise, but since this is not the premise for the hate, there is no link between these rumors and the hate.

You dont seem to know how much the hate has become. Sure, if someone says your comments are bad, then its fine. But people here are just simply hating him so much that he wishes their parents dead and even tries to destroy his life!

D. Sure, people have not met Justin Bieber, however that does not mean they do not know about them. To use you're book metaphor, they are not judging the book my it's cover, but instead by it's blurb, it's reviews, from an extract they have read. They have not met Justin Bieber, yet can still gain an insight into him based on several factors, which I shall show below.

So, moving onto some substantive as to why hating Justin Bieber is perfectly legitimate.

A. Freedom of Choice - In short, if people chose to hate Justin Bieber, just like anybody else, they have the freedom to do so. The reason for doing so is down to the person, and in the end nobody can tell him that he should not hate Justin Bieber. Everybody is different, and therefore different people appeal to others, and just because certain attributes to one person are reasons he should not be hated, these may be reasons people hate him in the first place.

Note that this debate is based on opinion. Even i dont really care about hatred over others, but extreme hate is going too far.

B. So why do people hate Justin Bieber? Well aside from any unique qualms they have, there are some pretty key reasons.
1. Stupidity/Lack of Talent - Probably the biggest issue people have with Justin Bieber is his sheer lack of real world knowledge. Take for example his tour to New Zealand, where he was interviewed on C4 Select Live and didn't know what German was (2), as they don't have that in America. Perhaps he can be forgiven for not understanding the kiwi accent right (I mean, everybody else can but hey...)? But then he showed him the card with it written on it, so he is either A) Highly ignorant or B) Illiterate, either way showing that he has nowhere near the intelligence of many people, and yet he still has more fame, more money, more success, despite never working properly. One of the comments shows this as the premise of hate for this particular hater (Forgive the grammar, it's his second language) "I didnt had any reason to hate justin bieber, but now, he doesn't know what germany is??? its my homecountry you

Well, i didnt know about this but im here to debate about the extreme hate against him.

2. His personality. This is the personality reflected to the public, and can give a fair indication of what he is like. The obvious argument here is that this does not reflect his true personality, but the fact of the matter is that this is what people see and hear, and these are actions he has taken himself, with full knowledge of the potential public reactions. A simple parallel here is Tiger Woods, who is now hated by many due to a series of actions which may not truly represent him or his true character, but have been shown to the public. The two examples I would like to bring are firstly, Justin Bieber assaulting a 12 y.o boy at laser tag. "A 12-year-old boy was assaulted in a Richmond entertainment facility. The boy sustained minimal injuries and did not require medical attention at the time," says RCMP's Annie Linteau. (3) After the 12-year-old complained about being hit by Justin Bieber, the singer was thrown out of the facility. (4). Admittedly he was provoked by verbal abuse, however everybody undergoes this at some point in their lives, and you learn the most about a person when the chips are down, and how they react. In this case, Justin definitely did not react in a way made for us to admire him, but instead a way that doesn't speak volumes for his character.

Ahh this entire incident again huh? Actually, Justin Bieber was the victim if you didn knew. The 12-year-old boy called him a faggot (in other words a gay, something Justin has been bullied for some time) and of course he got mad. He shoved him aside and tried to run, probably touching the 12 year old face. His sister testified that he cried immediately after being hit, but there were NO marks left. (more of a lie to corner Justin)
Justin Bieber wasnt thrown out of the facility, he never was. He just left the facility after paying the round.

Next, however, is an arguably worse case, which shows him as selfish and self-centered, to the point where his actions harm his own mother to the point where she had to get legal support (5). The fact that his own mother did not read his autobiography until after its release, and that his own mother is being left out of his business life, when really he owes her a huge debt.

Tell me then, why did he owe his mother a huge debt? Certainly she has done nothing to support her except that she prevented Justin from dating with other girls. Your source seems to be my source.

So my conclusion is that Justin Bieber doesnt deserve such hate where everyone tries to condemn him to death. If he tried to blow up a school or something then yes he deserve to be hated, but now he just innocently sung a song and played a guitar. There is no reason for such extreme hatred over him.

Source:
http://www.associatedcontent.com...
Smitchell

Con

"Hmph, i was merely giving an example of hatred. Even so, this is still hate and since you agree with and say its wrong, this argument has been approved by you.

You dont seem to know how much the hate has become. Sure, if someone says your comments are bad, then its fine. But people here are just simply hating him so much that he wishes their parents dead and even tries to destroy his life!

Note that this debate is based on opinion. Even i dont really care about hatred over others, but extreme hate is going too far."

I agree that extreme hate is wrong, but as far as hate in its simplest form, I don't see any reason why this should be held back just because "he has good top 10 music" or "people have never met him". I guess we are both debating a different topic here...

"Ahh this entire incident again huh? Actually, Justin Bieber was the victim if you didn knew. The 12-year-old boy called him a faggot (in other words a gay, something Justin has been bullied for some time) and of course he got mad. He shoved him aside and tried to run, probably touching the 12 year old face. His sister testified that he cried immediately after being hit, but there were NO marks left. (more of a lie to corner Justin)
Justin Bieber wasnt thrown out of the facility, he never was. He just left the facility after paying the round."

To be honest, the fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what really happened, and this is impossible to tell, the important bit is that the perception it creates leads to hate, and if he can't properly deal with this perception, then "haters gonna hate".

"Tell me then, why did he owe his mother a huge debt? Certainly she has done nothing to support her except that she prevented Justin from dating with other girls. Your source seems to be my source."

Why does he owe his mother a huge debt? Well, in honesty, every bit of money he earns is because of her.
Who was it that uploaded the videos of him singing to youtube? In short, if his mother had done that, he would never
have gotten a contract, and never made this amount of money. So yes, he owes his mother a lot! She has supported him by giving him this chance.

So my conclusion is that Justin Bieber doesn't deserve extremist hate, nobody does, but as far as regular hate goes, sure, what makes him special?
Debate Round No. 3
dinokiller

Pro

It seems my opponent misunderstood my point of this debate and i (accidently) even made it worse, made him thinking that he shouldnt be hated at all. I dont think there should be a winner in this debate.

"I agree that extreme hate is wrong, but as far as hate in its simplest form, I don't see any reason why this should be held back just because "he has good top 10 music" or "people have never met him". I guess we are both debating a different topic here..."

Those 2 points actually add up to the hatred instead of making him popular in the good way. There really is no reason to hate him because of those reasons, but people do hate him.

"To be honest, the fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what really happened, and this is impossible to tell, the important bit is that the perception it creates leads to hate, and if he can't properly deal with this perception, then "haters gonna hate"."

I agree here, but as we know Justin Bieber was innocent as we know. If he had punched a 12 year old boy and he had been caught, then yes there should be hate as he punched an sort of innocent (not truly innocent) young boy. But he didnt, so there was also no reason to hate him except people supporting the 12 year old boy.

"Why does he owe his mother a huge debt? Well, in honesty, every bit of money he earns is because of her.
Who was it that uploaded the videos of him singing to youtube? In short, if his mother had done that, he would never
have gotten a contract, and never made this amount of money. So yes, he owes his mother a lot! She has supported him by giving him this chance."

Hmmm, i see. Seems i dont know everything yet. But isnt this a personal problem? Why should there be hate because of this.

My conclusion is kinda odd, but yeah, it has been so for some time because of this debate.
Justin bieber doesnt deserve hate and isnt so special as the others, but what special reason is there in the world for this extreme hate?
Smitchell

Con

Sorry this is late but I've been kinda busy.

In reality, I'm not going to ask you to vote con, nor ask you to vote pro, because really both sides have come to the same conclusion, through different means. We can agree that Beiber shouldn't be hated to the extent that some people take this, however it is also undeniable that there is at least some room to hate him. So this is going to be a short, confusing conclusion.

So basically it has been conceded that there is room for hate, just as you cannot force people to hate somebody, you can't force them to love him, but similarly it has been conceded by myself that there is no need for the excessive death threats and abuse that goes on, so in the end, the debate itself has come to no conclusion....
Debate Round No. 4
38 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Princess15 6 years ago
Princess15
I think that no one should hate justin bieber because he became famous. I think everyone is just jelouse of him because he became famous off the internet may you should do the same thing. I think that everyone who hates him should shut up about this.
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
You agree with me Roy? We shouldnt be hating Justin Bieber. Not at all. We can just dislike him, but not hate.
Posted by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
Never hate anyone. It spoils your aim.
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
Enicea, thats fine, in fact thats even better then them. YOU DONT WANT HIM DEAD.

The others hate them so extremely that they want him wiped off from the earth.
Posted by Enicea 6 years ago
Enicea
"Dislike" and "hate" is different. I don't like Justin Beiber's songs but I can't judge him as a person because I don't know him personally.
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
Okay, now first, you accuse him of being a sex god to little childrens and he sings terrible. But those reasons alone doesnt provide such hatred, there is more reason why u hate him so much or, are you hiding it now?
Posted by IFoundWaldo 6 years ago
IFoundWaldo
No. I hate him to the point at which I would rather him be dead than to walk the same earth as I do. Hatred is an extreme distaste for another thing/person. And yes. I can honestly say that I hate him. Also. Have you heard his music, dinokiller? It's.. Terrible. Another thing is that, as someone has already stated in a previous comment, He's a sex-god for little girls. Little girls DON'T need sex-icons.
Posted by dinokiller 6 years ago
dinokiller
Kenyon, you obviously just judged him too harshly.
Posted by J.Kenyon 6 years ago
J.Kenyon
Roy, you obviously haven't heard him sing.
Posted by RoyLatham 6 years ago
RoyLatham
I think it is a sign of the times that few people use "hate" with reference to terrorists who kill thousands and cut off heads on television, but a little twerp who doesn't sing too well is just over the line. Ridiculous.
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