The Instigator
tsauqunited
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Messiator
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

Kanye West is a Good Influence on Kids

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Messiator
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/16/2014 Category: Music
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,161 times Debate No: 54856
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

tsauqunited

Pro

I am arguing that Kanye West is a good influence on kids. I will debate pro, my opponent con. Good luck.
Messiator

Con

I will be debating that Kanye West is not a good influence on kids, on the con side of this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
tsauqunited

Pro

First off, Kanye West has an inspiring character. He went through a lot as a kid and got to work with his idol, Jay Z. When kids look up to him, they notice when he says quotes like "They say you can rap about anything except for Jesus, that means guns, sex, lies, video tapes, but if I talk about God my record won't get played huh?"
Kanye West once said: "You don't have to be scared of me, because I am loyal. Why are people so scared of creative ideas and so scared of truth? All I want to do is do good." Which is true. Kanye West is a good christian and religious man. There is no reason that parents should be afraid if their kids listen to Kanye West's music.
Messiator

Con

For my rebuttal, I will first have a direct refutation for the arguments made by the pro side, followed by my own points as to why Kanye West is not a good influence on kids. Firstly, the pro side stated that because Kanye West endured a difficult life and ended up working with his idol, the resolution retains credence. However, the point is invalidated and irrelevant because of the life that followed, which will be described in a larger scale later, and that certainly is not emblematic of an inspiration or a good influence on kids (this point will be addressed soon). Secondly, in reference to the quote made by the pro side, I will reply with a quote: "Actions speak louder than words." Kanye West can make statements testifying 'Christianity'- wanting to speak about Jesus- time and time again. However, unless the life and actions that follow are at least partially in line and continue (as Kanye did write a song 'Jesus walks' but never continued that way and overall digressed egregiously) with his statements and putative beliefs, his statements fall flat along with his reputation (once again, along with my first point, I will shortly address why his life does not fall in line with his statements and why although he began with difficulties, the life that followed brings down the possibility of having a good influence). By the way, the statement he made is absolutely right, talking about Jesus and God is something secular record labels really dislike. Nevertheless, if he were a truly good influence and if he truly wanted to speak about Jesus, he would have done so and, again, continued to do so instead of turning to live and say things so far from what he testifies to believe and live by. Again, this will all be explained. Lastly, in reference to the pro sides overall final point and quotation, I once again need to say that words are meaningless and void unless supported by actions. He noted "all I want to do is good:" but 'good' is not at all evident in the controversy and corruption, at least from a self-proclaimed Christian stance, that soon enveloped his life (this all will, once again, soon be warranted). Also, the pro side's following statement, about Kanye West being a "good Christian and religious man" is unwarranted by examples of how he is so: the pro side only supplied his arguments with Kanye West's own words. So what is the life that followed a 'desire' to want speak and be like Jesus, as Christianity demands? Well first off, Kanye West is notorious for smoking, doing drugs, and continuously cursing. According to contact music (http://www.contactmusic.com...), while staying at a very opulent and royal hotel in London, many dignitaries were outraged by Kanye West and his friends" "weed smoking" and many other things, as reported by Kanye West's friend himself. As for cursing, practically every song he sings is surrounded by it, even 'Jesus Walks', which is a rather clean song in comparison to what he sings now, contained many curse words, at least from the standard of today. Also, Jesus Walks was written in 2004. How can he be a good influence if kids that follow in his footsteps will want to curse, smoke, and do drugs; all which are deleterious to anyone"s health. This is the impact of the argument. Following this, besides the fact that he named his new tour the "Yeezus tour," there is a core action that is really the crutch of the whole argument ( in reference to his song I Am a God) Kanye West stated: "I made that song because I am a god. I don't think there's much more explanation. I'm not going to sit here and defend (curse word). That (curse word) is rock 'n' roll, man. That (curse word) is rap music. I am a god. Now what?." If Kanye West were really a good Christian man, it is pivotal to then recognize that according to the fundamentals of Christianity, man created by God is lower than God. No man is a God or God himself: he would have to be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc. The fact that he is claiming he is a god is, according to the Christianity based on the Bible, is sheer pride, idolatry( making himself an idol to be worshipped), and in complete ignorance and violation of 1 Timothy 2:5 in the Bible (emphasis added): "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." And this is only one passage. Thus, the pro"s point is once again invalid. Overall, there is much to be said about why the pro side is incorrect in saying Kanye West is a good influence: firstly, just because one endures a difficult life, the life and choices that follow is what constitutes his influence; no kid is focused on the hardships he faced before, but the life he is living now. Secondly, all the quotations given by the pro side have been shown to be void because of the contradiction between his life and statements. Finally, the only other point about Kanye being a good Christian man, which really was never proven by the pro side, has been shown by my rebuttal to be completely false because the statements he make actually show themselves to want to replace Jesus instead of following Him. Consequently, there is a myriad of reasons why his songs and life should be rebarbative to every parent.
Debate Round No. 2
tsauqunited

Pro

It may be true that Kanye West thinks he is a God. However, the impact of the quote on the younger generation is more important. Most pre teens and teens would realize he is exceedingly egocentric and let this slip by. Kanye also highly discourages blind patriotism, mentioning regularly (like in his song New Slaves from his latest album, Yeezus) that Americans that look up to big brands by Nike and Apple, which is in a way, true. (A quote from the song:"yo n***** can't control Ye!" He barely mentions his past accomplishments and always tells kids and parents alike, to search for true freedom. If you watch some of his interviews (For example, the Breakfast Club, he has some interesting points and has a different way of looking at the world then most people, making him a visionary."
Kanye West also donates millions a year to the less fortunate, and describes himself as "A man from the future stuck in today's time." (not a direct quote) He looks down at Tyranny and feels that people should people should be treated as equals, but what gives him the most impact is that he wants his voice to be heard.
(Sorry for bad spelling and grammar, typed on phone)
Messiator

Con

( The bad spelling and grammar is completely alright :)

Firstly, I believe it is important to point out that all your arguments made in round 2 were ultimately dropped, and new arguments were introduced in round 3; therefore they were proven incorrect. Also, none of my points (except for Kanye saying he is a god, that is about to be addressed) made in round 2 were answered by the pro side, thus they remain valid. You mentioned that most pre-teens and teens would let the fact that Kanye said he is a god slip by. If you say that Kanye has a good influence whatsoever, however, this 'good' influence will be followed and emulated if it is a good thing. Thus your refutation actually contradicts your argument since if calling yourself a god is a good influence, of course teens will heed to this good influence and perhaps, not always blatantly, at least think to themselves that they themselves are also gods, becoming rebellious if, say, parents tell them to do something they would not like to do. Next, your points following this were once again based on his own words, not verifiable actions: any man can lie about his heart. As for blind patriotism, I'm not quite sure how Kanye's pointing out that many Americans are looking up to big brands is something that shows he is a good influence, much less relevant to the point. Continuing, having a different way at looking things and being a visionary has nothing to do with being a good influence; Adolf Hitler was certainly a visionary: he looked at things very differently and we all know the tragic consequences of his different ideas (I am not saying Kanye is like Hitler, just proving being a visionary is irrelevant since it itself does not verify a good influence). Thus the point of seeing things differently certainly does not make him a good influence at all. In reference to Kanye West donating millions to charity, I certainly agree that that's a good thing. But evidently, weighing all that is spoken, this is no where near to making him a good influence because of the supernumerary things against him already discussed that should be repelling to any parent. Lastly, in reference to your final points, they were once again not shown to be true and merely stated. Thus, they are invalidated since you did not back them with evidence. To add a few more points, you also did mention that many know he is very egocentric and narcissistic. People magazine expatiates by giving multifarious instances that show his pejorative pride and anger when he did not get what he wanted. To give two examples:

1. At the MTV Europe Music Awards Ceremony, Kanye "lost best video to a French duo named Justice vs. Simian. Outraged, he crashed the stage and interrupted their acceptance speech with a profanity-laced rant: "If I don't win," he said, "the award show loses credibility."," according to People.com.

2. In a red cross fund-raising drive for victims of Hurricane Katrina, Kanye West chose to lash out at the government by stating, "George Bush doesn't care about black people". Outlandish statements like these, certainly don't at all make him a good influence: actually, quite the antithesis.

To sum it all up, all my points mentioned in round 2 and 3 still retain credence and there is only one valid reason, which is small in comparison to the numerous other aspects, that the pro side still has standing. However, even with donating much to charity, it was already shown how easily Kanye's attitude could mar the entire thing, like shown at the charity drive example shown above. Thus, he is not a good influence
Debate Round No. 3
tsauqunited

Pro

tsauqunited forfeited this round.
Messiator

Con

Thanks for debating with me, tsauqunited.
Debate Round No. 4
tsauqunited

Pro

Thank you. Looking forward to seeing you again (that was my first debate)
Messiator

Con

Likewise, tsauqunited. Thanks again!
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
tsauqunitedMessiatorTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeit. S&G was equal enough, I suppose (And, just as a note, both of you would benefit from some paragraph breaks). Sourcing didn't warrant points. As to Arguments, Con showed several ways in which Kanye West was a BAD influence, including thinking he's a god. Pro conceded this, claiming that kids won't notice because they'll recognize he's exceedingly egocentric, which undermines Pro's entire case! Con rebutted what few "positives" Kanye offered according to Pro, and offered multiple negatives that weren't rebutted (except for that "rebuttal" that was almost a concession...). Arguments to Con. Welcome to DDO to both of you, though! As always, happy to clarify this RFD.