The Instigator
boomeranghugs
Pro (for)
Winning
22 Points
The Contender
rogue
Con (against)
Losing
20 Points

Kesha has no true talent in terms of singing

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
boomeranghugs
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2011 Category: Arts
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 9,366 times Debate No: 14409
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (35)
Votes (9)

 

boomeranghugs

Pro

talent (n) a special natural ability or aptitude

If you've never seen Ke$ha sing live don't bother.

We have singing greats out there like Alicia Keys, Mariah Carey, Carrie Underwood, Prince, Kelly Clarkson, etc. and then we have the people that teenagers listen to and end up on the top 40 stations. Which category does Ke$ha fall under? The second one.

We have people with true talent in whatever they do like the contestants on SYTYCD and American Idol, albeit some of them weren't all that great. Then we have people with an image and a terrible singing voice. What category does Ke$ha fall under? The second one.

We, as Americans, allow these image-promoting people to be played on our radio waves while the people with these amazing voices and no real true image sit on the stations with music from our past. Why? Why do we allow this to happen? My theory is that the majority of people who listen to the "popular" stations are teenagers. The majority of teenagers really don't care about lyrics, song meanings, or true artistry. I do.

Ke$ha tore up the airwaves with Tik Tok and you know, its an enjoyable song to listen to. I was a HUGE Ke$ha fan for a while. Then, I saw her perform on Saturday Night Live and it all changed.

It was almost so bad and so strange that I wanted to turn my television off. It was terrible singing. She is honestly, in my opinion and the majority of the people I know, tone deaf. Then why is Ke$ha famous? Her drunken, party girl image.

Latest technology in voice editing has opened new doors for many artists, but this isn't always a good thing. What is allows is for people with no true talent or singing ability to have amazing voices that grace our radio stations. The true test of talent is hearing them sing live. If a singer cannot sing there song when all their voice editing and techno back up music is stripped away from the song, then that person obviously cannot sing and is only famous because of their image.

This is not an argument about whether or not Ke$ha music is good. No, this is an argument about whether or not she actually has talent or if she is clogging up the airwaves with voice altered, for lack of a better word, crap. Ke$ha music is catchy, but is not different from most songs on the radio. In turn, this means it is not only music without talent, but music without artistry. We cannot allow for singers and performers like Ke$ha to be called artists if they can't even live up to the definition.
rogue

Con


" We have singing greats out there like Alicia Keys, Mariah Carey, Carrie Underwood, Prince, Kelly Clarkson, etc. and then we have the people that teenagers listen to and end up on the top 40 stations. Which category does Ke$ha fall under? The second one."

Have you ever seen them live? Hardly anyone sings well live and if they do most of the time it is prerecorded. They have to sing loud to be heard over the band and a lot of times they are also dancing. Ever tried to sing while dancing?

"
We have people with true talent in whatever they do like the contestants on SYTYCD and American Idol, albeit some of them weren't all that great. Then we have people with an image and a terrible singing voice. What category does Ke$ha fall under? The second one."

American Idol is a much better environment for singing because they don't have to dance, it is much cleaner than most concerts, they have classical trainers, and they only have to sing one song. How can you know if Kesha has a good singing voice or not? Most pop and rock singers are fairly bad in concert. True, she doesn't sing much in her songs but I still think you can't know if she is good until she sings for you personally after warming up.

"We, as Americans, allow these image-promoting people to be played on our radio waves while the people with these amazing voices and no real true image sit on the stations with music from our past. Why? Why do we allow this to happen? My theory is that the majority of people who listen to the "popular" stations are teenagers. The majority of teenagers really don't care about lyrics, song meanings, or true artistry. I do."

I think you have a problem with the meaningless songs on the radio and the image that it portrays, not Kesha. i can't believe you are attacking teenagers. Do you know any teenagers? I am a teenager and I don't listen to the radio most of the time. I think pop music has its place which is for dancing. It is fun to dance to. But if I want music that means something to me, inspires me, that I'll listen to a lot, I look for artists that maybe have on or two songs that were played on pop radio stations or are never played on the radio. I know lots of teenagers that don't listen to the radio. Mostly it is young middle schoolers, ages 10-13, that seem to like pop crap.

" I
t was almost so bad and so strange that I wanted to turn my television off. It was terrible singing. She is honestly, in my opinion and the majority of the people I know, tone deaf. Then why is Ke$ha famous? Her drunken, party girl image."

Ok, I saw that performance. It really wasn't that bad and I'm a professional singer. That was quite a good live performance. She was in tune the whole time. I don't know if you've seen live performances but they can't sound like the recording because the recording is changes electronically. Plus, if you were a fan before, you knew she had that image so why do you have a problem now and not then?

As to the rest of your argument, you have to realize that almost all of the music on the radio is not written by the "artists". Kesha actually writes her songs. Most of pop music is totally meaningless and I don't necessarily think it is great, but we need to meaningless beats sometimes when we just want to let loose.
Debate Round No. 1
boomeranghugs

Pro

Have you ever seen them live? Hardly anyone sings well live and if they do most of the time it is prerecorded. They have to sing loud to be heard over the band and a lot of times they are also dancing. Ever tried to sing while dancing?"

Yes, in fact I have. I am a musical theatre performance and so about 75% of the time I'm singing on stage I'm dancing. Loads of singers perform live and dance way more than she does with more skill and advancement and more often and are capable of a better live performance. Yes, I have seen singers such as the ones I named on my last argument live and it was great singing.

"Most pop and rock singers are fairly bad in concert. True, she doesn't sing much in her songs but I still think you can't know if she is good until she sings for you personally after warming up."

Okay, but what about those who are good in concert and on the radio that aren't hitting the top of the charts? This isn't an argument over whether or not they're good songs and if she can put on a show. I disagree. If someone is a truly talented singer, they will be able to perform admirably unless they are sick or have totally lost their voices or have not warmed up.

"Do you know any teenagers? I am a teenager and I don't listen to the radio most of the time."

I'm a teenager and I do listen to the radio, but I also listen to my iPod. http://www.marketingcharts.com... This link takes you to a site that states that the majority of people are above 12 and are mostly teenagers and young adults.

"She was in tune the whole time."

Not true. The beginning was in tune, but the majority of the song of after that was her little talk-singing thing and then some seriously not good singing. It was not good, not horrendous but it was bad. Listen to the chorus which is actual singing and it sounds like she's singing from her throat and not from her diaphragm.

"As to the rest of your argument, you have to realize that almost all of the music on the radio is not written by the "artists". Kesha actually writes her songs. Most of pop music is totally meaningless and I don't necessarily think it is great, but we need to meaningless beats sometimes when we just want to let loose"

Okay, um I understand that this isn't about this, but if Ke$ha writes her songs from experience first I fear for her life. Anyways, it would be different if her lyrics were good lyrics or just meaningless words strung into a good beat. The point isn't whether her music is good. As far as I'm concerned, her music is okay to listen to on the radio, b I don't think its fair for her to be swimming in cash when people with these amazing or even just better-than-Ke$ha voices are fighting tooth and nail for a record deal.

"I don't know if you've seen live performances but they can't sound like the recording because the recording is changes electronically."

Billboard stated that the heavily processed vocals "[made] it hard to tell whether [Kesha can] actually sing."
you know, until we saw that performance above.

In conclusion, a lot of you're points were targeting MY experiences from what I've heard. I'm around amazing singers everyday who are throwing pirouettes and grand jetes with microphones strapped to their faces under the hot lights of a stage and they don't need electronic editing to have a good voice; they just do. Ke$ha needs electronic editing, but to really earn her right as a true vocal talent, she needs voice lessons.
rogue

Con



" Yes, in fact I have. I am a musical theatre performance and so about 75% of the time I'm singing on stage I'm dancing. Loads of singers perform live and dance way more than she does with more skill and advancement and more often and are capable of a better live performance. Yes, I have seen singers such as the ones I named on my last argument live and it was great singing."

I am also in musical theater performance. Professionally. I have also seen a lot of Broadway shows. She has done better than some people I've seen in Broadway shows. She isn't trained the way others are. You can't expect her to sing like a lot of other professionals. A lot of pop singers sing like this in concert. This was a decent performance at the least. Maybe you have the same standards for her as you do for yourself if you are trained as I am, but she obviously was not classically or musical theater trained vocally. Her technique, tone, and timbre she makes unique to her. She does these things on purpose to sound different. Whether you like what she does with her voice or not doesn't mean she is a bad singer. A bad singer won't sing in tune and their voices will crack during the performance. Neither of these things happened during any performance I've seen by Kesha.

"
Okay, but what about those who are good in concert and on the radio that aren't hitting the top of the charts? This isn't an argument over whether or not they're good songs and if she can put on a show. I disagree. If someone is a truly talented singer, they will be able to perform admirably unless they are sick or have totally lost their voices or have not warmed up."

Ok, this leads me to believe you are not trained. My teacher is a reasonably famous opera singer, Donald George. Even he doesn't sound good in the mornings before he has warmed up. He spends at least fifteen minutes a day warming up so he can sound his best. Also, unless you have laryngitis or something, you can sing with a cold. Unless it hurts to sing when you are sick, if you are singing healthily, a cold should not affect your voice except for maybe making it a little nasal. Other artists are irrelevant to this debate. Your resolve was that Kesha is not a good singer. I say, you can't know that. If you cannot fulfill the burden of proof that Kesha is not a good singer then you lose the debate and the win defaults to me.

" I'm a teenager and I do listen to the radio, but I also listen to my iPod. http://www.marketingcharts.com...... This link takes you to a site that states that the majority of people are above 12 and are mostly teenagers and young adults."

This is irrelevant.

" Not true. The beginning was in tune, but the majority of the song of after that was her little talk-singing thing and then some seriously not good singing. It was not good, not horrendous but it was bad. Listen to the chorus which is actual singing and it sounds like she's singing from her throat and not from her diaphragm."

For one, I did listen to it. On a better link with I will now post.

Her sing-songy thing and the way she sounds she does to be different as an artist. I am not trying to say she is by any mean as good classical and some musical theater singers. But as a pop singer she isn't bad at all. She definitely was in in tune as much as anyone can doing what she is doing. Also, it isn't as simple as "she sings from her throat not her diaphragm". You don't just sing from your diaphragm. Also, it is very hard to tell what a singer is doing wrong even for my teachers who have taught voice for a very long time.

"
Okay, um I understand that this isn't about this, but if Ke$ha writes her songs from experience first I fear for her life. Anyways, it would be different if her lyrics were good lyrics or just meaningless words strung into a good beat. The point isn't whether her music is good. As far as I'm concerned, her music is okay to listen to on the radio, b I don't think its fair for her to be swimming in cash when people with these amazing or even just better-than-Ke$ha voices are fighting tooth and nail for a record deal."

This is irrelevant, but i don't think you know a lot about pop artists. None of them deserve to be swimming in cash even if they are good singers. Most of them don't write their music and have meaningless lyrics. Everyone is dying to get a record deal, does that make hem more deserving of it? Is the music industry going to be fair? No. Also, Kesha, unlike many artists is actually not very rich. She doesn't own million dollar homes or buy a lot of ridiculous frivolous things. She spends most of it on her tours. I read an interview with her.

"
In conclusion, a lot of you're points were targeting MY experiences from what I've heard. I'm around amazing singers everyday who are throwing pirouettes and grand jetes with microphones strapped to their faces under the hot lights of a stage and they don't need electronic editing to have a good voice; they just do. Ke$ha needs electronic editing, but to really earn her right as a true vocal talent, she needs voice lessons."

I did not just work off of your experiences. I also am around a lot of great singers everyday who sing better than she is. I actually do broadway shows. She obviously does need some training as most pop artists do. Remember, she is not a broadway singer. She isn't supposed to sound like the people we work with. Also, how do you decide who deserves to get a record or not? Just because someone is maybe a better singer, which is debatable, doesn't make them a better artist or deserving of fame. I know a lot of talented people who are terribly full of themselves and I hope they never get rich because they don't deserve it as a person.

Debate Round No. 2
boomeranghugs

Pro

"She has done better than some people I've seen in Broadway shows."

Unless the actor in a Broadway show was purposefully trying to sing bad or were not supposed to have a good voice, for example Lucy in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown, I severely doubt that. You have to take a look circumstance sometime, but for sake of this debate, I'm talking about what is seen as a good voice straight across the board, not just for a single person in a single style.

"Ok, this leads me to believe you are not trained. My teacher is a reasonably famous opera singer, Donald George."

First teacher: Karen Burns- performed on Broadway and was a Radio City Rockette.
Current Teacher: Emma England- performs Off-Broadway and owns a successful performing arts company that is somewhat known throughout the US, Studio 3.
*Yes, I know this is irrelevent.

"If you cannot fulfill the burden of proof that Kesha is not a good singer then you lose the debate and the win defaults to me."
What more proof do you need? I'm not asking this "Ke$ha is not a good singer for the style in which she sings." No. I am saying that for actually singing talent ACROSS THE BOARD it's not good singing for the most part. The video shows her singing from her throat and hiding under spoken lyrics.

" Remember, she is not a broadway singer. She isn't supposed to sound like the people we work with."

I'm aware. My key point is that across the board, there are more people who are household names that are better singers than her than not.

"Also, how do you decide who deserves to get a record or not? Just because someone is maybe a better singer, which is debatable, doesn't make them a better artist or deserving of fame. I know a lot of talented people who are terribly full of themselves and I hope they never get rich because they don't deserve it as a person."

Well, an image is important, but you also need to be able to back up that image of what makes you famous with talent. As for the second piece, so do I. I've read a interview with Ke$ha as well and honestly, she seems like a bad influence on, as my radio listeners link in my previous argument provided, the people who are most likely to hear her song on the radio or through other ways of music transfer. That, in my opinion, makes me believe that she is undeserving of fame. (She is not the only one.)
rogue

Con



" Unless the actor in a Broadway show was purposefully trying to sing bad or were not supposed to have a good voice, for example Lucy in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown, I severely doubt that. You have to take a look circumstance sometime, but for sake of this debate, I'm talking about what is seen as a good voice straight across the board, not just for a single person in a single style."

Are you kidding me? I work in broadway shows! I went to shows all the time as a kid! So many broadway stars sounds awful live because of the lights, the air, the dancing, and because they strain their voices trying to belt when they don't know how. Most people can't agree on if popstars sing well across the board. What she does as an artist does not prove she has a bad voice.

" The video shows her singing from her throat and hiding under spoken lyrics." Did you read my last argument? Even experienced teachers can't tell from one performance what a singer is doing wrong. You have no proof that she is hiding under spoken lyrics. Not to mention a lot of pop stars have spoken lyrics so that proves nothing. I know you are new, but your burden of proof has not been fulfilled at all. You haven't adressed many of my points and have only made assertions.

" I'm aware. My key point is that across the board, there are more people who are household names that are better singers than her than not." There is no way to know that. What you have heard is radio recordings and live performances which are often pre-recorded. Not to mention there are very few people who are "good singers across the board". Many good teachers disagree heavily on who is and isn't a good singer. It doesn't even matter if others are better, that doesn't mean Kesha isn't a good singer.

"Well, an image is important, but you also need to be able to back up that image of what makes you famous with talent. As for the second piece, so do I. I've read a interview with Ke$ha as well and honestly, she seems like a bad influence on, as my radio listeners link in my previous argument provided, the people who are most likely to hear her song on the radio or through other ways of music transfer. That, in my opinion, makes me believe that she is undeserving of fame. (She is not the only one.)"

Let's be real here. neither of us know kesha personally and so neither of us can reall decide whether she is deserving of fame. That is irrelevant anyway. I think you are more trying to prove a point than win a debate. It's ok. I made the same mistake my first debate.
Debate Round No. 3
35 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ComeBackForIndianSummer 3 years ago
ComeBackForIndianSummer
I find it strange that no one has mentioned that Ke$ha was a studio musician used on vocal tracks for other artists before she became famous. That job requires singing talents. While of the merits of music can be argued, it's pretty futile to argue about her singing talents
Posted by rogue 3 years ago
rogue
I agree with you. I hope I have experienced enough, learned enough, and developed enough to be more intelligent then someone four years younger. But we can't really get a good look at that online so...
Posted by Pathatlon 3 years ago
Pathatlon
Define intelligence. School-like you should probably be more intelligent as well as work-like, considering you have 4 yrs more experience than her. It's logic.

But I know people who are ten years older than me (met a girl, actually) who didn't realise how the media manipulate.

She didn't even get the wrong in her statement of "I sometimes don't like a song, but when I see the music-video I start liking the song". She was 30 and didn't realise that it's obviously NOT the song, but rather the music videos impression that made her change her mind.

So, the question of intelligence, really, is: do you know how to apply your experiences in other situations? If not, you've only learned something in THAT experience. If yes, you've managed to help yourself better when encountering new situations.
Posted by rogue 3 years ago
rogue
Boomeranghugs: GET OVER IT. I've apologized to you many times. I don't know what else you want me to do. Honestly, I wasn't trying to imply anything. But frankly, I'm four years older than you. If I wasn't more intelligent, I'd be ashamed. I don't know if I am but seriously: LET IT GO.
Posted by boomeranghugs 3 years ago
boomeranghugs
Oh ha, no were were talking brains because she was saying she was basically more intelligent because she is older than me.
Posted by GeoLaureate8 3 years ago
GeoLaureate8
I don't care if Kesha has talent or not, she makes good music to party to.
Posted by Pathatlon 3 years ago
Pathatlon
... What does brain development have anythign to do with anything? Kesha isn't 12 or 15 or 20. She should be old enough to be rational, despite her frontal lobe not being developed. Otherwise the legal age shoudl be raised to 25 for all. I'm 23 and I am very much responsible and I use my brain.

Kesha is not talented, it doesn't matter about her brain or anything, but purely on facts.

Of course, likes and dislikes are subjective, but you cannot deny that she sings about Jesus and getting drunk in the same songs. You cannot deny her combinging two very different messages in one song. Singing about brushing her teeth with alchohol and listening to the music itself, which is THE SAME BEAT OVER AND OVER, what is left?

Bad lyric, same beat... equals... what? Talen? Not really...

So she doesn't deserve to die, of course, but she doesn't deserve to be a star either, because she's not good. But of course, the standard have fallen, which allows her on stage, sadly.

Of course you can interpret it differently. You can point out that Jesus is just a slang, or a bling to her, but just because YOU see things differently doesn't make it right if the rest of the world have a different view.

I don't care for religion, I do, however, care that her songs appeal to 12-year old, who thinks it's good to brush their teeth in alcohol and look like glittery sluts.

I blieve Jay-Z has made an interview about SuperStars, how they don't exist anymore. Kesha is far from talented. She can sing, but that's about it. It doesn't mean she's a musical genius or even talent.
Posted by boomeranghugs 3 years ago
boomeranghugs
"That's fine. You can think that. I'm sorry if you feel that way. You just seemed pretty ignorant of a lot of things that have to do with singing."

1. Okay, thats not rude but I'd love to hear what?

"The frontal lobe does not develop fully until age twenty five. This is why teenagers often do unwise things like suicide, driving unsafely, sex before they are ready."

2. Which then means when it comes to the development of brain, age is not of matter.
Posted by rogue 3 years ago
rogue
The frontal lobe does not develop fully until age twenty five. This is why teenagers often do unwise things like suicide, driving unsafely, sex before they are ready.
Posted by rogue 3 years ago
rogue
That's fine. You can think that. I'm sorry if you feel that way. You just seemed pretty ignorant of a lot of things that have to do with singing.
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