The Instigator
imabench
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
austinoclavanski123
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Kim Jung Il of North Korea was not a good leader

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,094 times Debate No: 21504
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

imabench

Pro

The Con in a previous debate claims that I know nothing of North Korea and that Kim Jung Il was a good leader, http://www.debate.org...

I am challenging him to this debate to argue that he is a poor leader.

I invite him to make his arguments for why he was a good leader of North Korea before he died. I will argue why he is not a good leader.

Game on Con...
austinoclavanski123

Con

Ok then.
Your not just going to call me a wacked out commy and not believe my evidence are you?
Debate Round No. 1
imabench

Pro

Kim Jung Il was the dictator of North Korea from 1994 to 2011, North Korea under his rule was one of the most inhospitable places in the world for people to live in. North Korea is inferior to many other countries in many categories of human rights, political freedoms, and basic health.

Stats about North Korea

2% of GDP goes to health (189 overall)
3 doctors per 1000 people (32nd worst)
13 hospital beds per 1000 people (2nd worst)
21% children under 5 underweight (33rd worst)
40 Billion GDP (99th best)
$1,800 GDP Per Capita (191st best)
11% Expenses funded by tax income (201st overall)

North Korea is also universally accepted as having chronic economical problems as a result of isolationist policies and overly central control over it by the government. Other issues include,
Large scale military spending diverting funds away from basic services
Chronic food shortages sometimes leading to famine
Extensive malnutrition and poor living conditions
Chronic fuel shortages (19bb oil produced for 13,000 bb oil consumed) bb = billions of barrels
A known site for human trafficking
Government corruption
Low Life expectancy compared to the rest of the world
Massive suppression of civil rights by the totalitarian regime
Labor camps and a very large number of political prisoners

https://www.cia.gov...
http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://civilliberty.about.com...
http://www.hrw.org...
http://freekorea.us...

All of this could be argued to have been caused by other things besides Kim Jung Il or that these have all been outside of Kim Jung Il's power. However there is a large amount of evidence that Kim Jung Il's decisions and grip over the country have certainly lead it into dark times.

the first of which is Kim Jung Il's cult of personality he built around himself to make himself look like a god. For example the state of North Korea officially claims that "Official North Korean biographies state that his birth occurred on February 16, 1942, in a secret camp on Mount Paekdu along the Chinese border, in Samjiyon County, Ryanggang Province, in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea)"

All that seems a little weird considering he was born in a secret camp, however it gets stranger when you realize that Mount Paekdu is supposedly a sacred mountain and now the government claims that Kim Jung Il was born in a secret camp on a sacred mountain. It also doesnt help that the reports also state that "claims that his birth was foretold by a swallow, the appearance of a double rainbow over Mount Paekdu, and a new star in the heavens"
http://www.biography.com...
http://www.biography.com...

What does this Cult of Personality do to North Korea? North Korea uses a ridiculously large amount of tax dollars and money it doesnt have to glorify his rule, which ranges from suppressing criticism against him, to letting him to decide everything, to taking any mistake he does make and forcing it to the people that it was not a mistake.

Some of Kim Jung Il's decisions are a little more visible in evaluating how he has wrecked North Korea. In 1995 North Korea witnessed record floods that crippled agriculture, a year later in 1996, same thing happened. In 1997 a drought struck the region which along with two years of ravaging floods plunged the nation into famine. The famine was so bad that foreign aid had to poor in to prevent people from dying, but the famine still killed 1 to 4 million people.

So with 3 years of devastating natural disasters devastating food production, millions of North Koreans had died from starvation, millions more were starving, and a huge amount of food supplies had to be quickly moved to North Korea to prevent a castrophe from getting even worse. So how did North Korea's dear leader do to try to handle the situation?

A) Use emergency funding to boost agriculture, food production, etc
B) Rearrange funding of programs to focus more on ending the famine
C) Openly appeal to foreign countries asking for help
D) Reorganize health and sanitation departments to handle the famine better with the tools they already had
E) Create a "Eat two meals a day" campaign and pour billions of dollars into military funding instead.

If you picked E, you have a really bad idea of how to fix a country, but you picked the option that Kim Jung Il decided to go with back in 1997.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://cup.columbia.edu...

So to summarize why King Jong Il was not a good leader
1 - Created a cut of personality around himself to glorify his own actions to a ridiculous amount
2 - Statistics about the country rank very low in health, sanitation, etc for years under his rule
3 - The effects of a famine in the country were exacerbated due to Kim's handling of the crisis
4 - The country faces chronic shortages in fuel and electricity daily due to poor economic policies
5 - The country under Kim's rule suffered very badly from corruption
6 - Kim poured billions of dollars into a military budget after a famine broke out following 3 years of bad harvests

Ill end here for now
austinoclavanski123

Con

YOUR A PRICK!!! ROT IN HELL MPERIALIST SUPPORTER!!! HOPE UFEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF!! Y DONT YOU HAVE A GO AT EUROPEAN AND AND WESTERN LEADERS FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND DID TO THE WHOLE OF AFRICA!! SLAVE TRADE and EMPIRES, THE MOST COURSE OF DEATH AND MST IN-HUMAIN THING EVER DONE!! U DOT C KIM DESTROYING AFRICA SLOWLY BUT SURELY!!!
Debate Round No. 2
imabench

Pro



"U DOT C KIM DESTROYING AFRICA SLOWLY BUT SURELY"
Thats not the debate here, the debate is over whether or not Kim Jung Il was a good leader of North Korea, and I have shown how that Kim Jung Il has done more damage to his own country than Stalin did to Russia



(pauses to let the con go into his rage session)



I extend all my arguments since the Con only called me a prick. rather than take the cheap conduct point I would normally get for letting this slide I will now proceed on using the rest of this debate posting funny photos of Stalin, Kim Jung Il, and Kim Jung Un >:)
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Might as well start off with a classic
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This is Kim Jung Un's 4th grade yearbook photo
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Remember the opening ceremony making Kim Jung Un the new leader? Kinda went like this
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Hey Remember when Hitler and Stalin made that friendship Pact and invaded Poland?
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Honeymoon didnt last very long.............

austinoclavanski123

Con

austinoclavanski123 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
imabench

Pro

I extend all my arguments about why Kim Jung Il was a bad leader and I extend my funny pictures as well
austinoclavanski123

Con

austinoclavanski123 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Wallstreetatheist 5 years ago
Wallstreetatheist
I love how the little communist uses propaganda websites. How apropos!
Posted by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
1dustpelt
Enjoy your easy win Pro.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
imabenchaustinoclavanski123Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious vote is obvious.
Vote Placed by MikeyMike 5 years ago
MikeyMike
imabenchaustinoclavanski123Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con Forfeit
Vote Placed by Zaradi 5 years ago
Zaradi
imabenchaustinoclavanski123Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: The only reason I end up voting is off the pictues. Yeah, that's why. Oh, and conduct goes to con because pro wasted his third round posting random pictures....obviously I'm kidding. Obvious vote is obvious.