The Instigator
SevenWarriors1
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Korashk
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Kingdom Hearts 3 vs Final Fantasy XV

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Korashk
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/2/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,081 times Debate No: 35233
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (0)
Votes (3)

 

SevenWarriors1

Pro

Good evening fellow debaters! Its once again the holidays season for my country and I felt the need to spread the joy through debates!

Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy XV (aka versus xiii) were both formally announced with their new titles at e3 2013. This joyous event sparked many enjoyable live reactions, however, which one was better?

Of course this debate isn't about facts, however if you are willing to try and prove that Final Fantasy XV is far more worth the wait than Kingdom Hearts 3 then please accept this debate!

I will of course be taking the side that Kingdom Hearts 3 is better than Final Fantasy XV and you must prove to me not only that Kingdom Hearts 3 is not better, but that Final Fantasy XV is.

This debate is informal, requires little facts if you want and a lot of concentration on what little details we have! Reference to other games in the series is encouraged.

First round is acceptance
Korashk

Con

I accept my opponent's terms and look forward to an interesting debate. Throughout the course of the debate I will show that Final Fantasy XV is likely to be a better game than Kingdom Hearts 3.
Debate Round No. 1
SevenWarriors1

Pro

I thank you for accepting the argument and look forward to this debate.

For the sake of it I feel access to the newest trailers should be provided so here are the links:
Final Fantasy XV:
Kingdom Hearts 3:

My main points of argument will be the fact that Kingdom Hearts 3 will incorporate a similar gameplay to Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance, that is is to be the last Kingdom Hearts video game series Xehanort arc (basically its the last game to feature the main villain Xehanort)and that because of its unknown release date it has great potential. Considering that we have 1.5 minutes of film to go on these are actually an incredibly strong points for several reasons.

The same team of games the developed Kingdom Hearts is currently working on two games, Final Fantasy XV and Kingdom Hearts 3. During the creation of Kingdom Hearts 3D (Dream Drop Distance) the development team cleverly incorporated a new style of playing for the kingdom hearts series, flowmotion (look it up if unsure of what it is as it is too hard to explain). The flowmotion aspect of Kingdom Hearts 3D greatly credited to be the reason for the success of Kingdom Hearts 3D and judging from the trailer of Kingdom Hearts 3 it is likely that it will be incorporated into the gameplay of Kingdom Hearts 3. The inclusion of flowmotion is something which is unattainable for the Final Fantasy series due to Kingdom Hearts being a hack and slash at heart and Final Fantasy being a turn based game. The command system will also be returning to kingdom hearts (a system which has a table seen at the bottom left of trailer gameplay) which, when combined with flowmotion, will allow for a freedom of fighting that was never incorporated into Final Fantasy and is unlikely to be (due to its inherent characteristics of turned base fights, teams of 3-5 people and the fact that final fantasy is unlikely to become hack and slash). The gameplay of Kingdom Hearts may not allow for the variety of attacks incorporated in Final Fantasy's it certainly has made up for that with its variety of combat maneuvers provided by the flowmotion and command system add-ins.

The worlds of Kingdom Hearts have always been a grand amalgamation of disney worlds, that is undisputed, however, nobody knows where the world of Kingdom Hearts 3 will take its gamers. The worlds of Kingdom Hearts are what make the game so interesting for its fans, although it has not the freedom of exploration that Final Fantasy incorporates, Kingdom Hearts has always allowed its fans to explore their childhood dream whilst adding a deep and compelling storyline to each world. One of the greatest hopes for Kingdom Hearts 3 is that it will incorporate not only new worlds, but also most of the previous worlds seen in Kingdom Hearts. If this comes to pass Kingdom Hearts will surpass Final Fantasy in one of its key points, hours of exploration and a fun time connecting with the game. As seen by the trailer, KH3 has already incorporated twilight town and the destiny islands in its list of worlds, however the hope is that it will include many more worlds, as long as disney creates more movies so too will the possibilities of Kingdom Hearts 3 grow in proportion. The worlds also serve as a private delight to fans of various game series and movies as they provide cameos and roles for characters from disney films and Final Fantasy games, as well as others, providing kicks of delight within the hearts of fans of Final Fantasy and KH alike. Down to the point, the worlds of Kingdom Hearts 3 are likely to be incredibly moving and provide hours of gameplay to the player, which is normal for a FF game but will delight and move a KH player to tears as he moves from world to world and create the ultimate gaming experience.

KH3 also has great potential. This may seem a strange point to make considering that I have already talked about gameplay and worlds, however KH3 is so much more to the fans than just a simple hack and slash, it is a game of dreams. Because this is the first time KH3 has been announced and FFXV is in production by the same development team, it is unlikely that KH3 will come out soon. This means that KH3 has the potential to grow into a game which will incorporate all the best aspects of games, taking into account data from a range of consoles including those of the XBOX game series and the PS series of games. By releasing the game KH3 on both consoles, the development team has the potential to make Kingdom Hearts 3 the greatest game of the series, and one that surpasses FFXV by far. Of course, it is fine to simply state fictional theory, but several reasons as to why Kingdom Hearts 3's potential is so much greater than Final Fantasy XV's potential is because it is coming out at least a couple of years after Final Fantasy XV. This means that the development team working on KH3 will have access to all the pros and cons of the (very similar in gameplay) Final Fantasy XV and improve them when adding the final touches to KH3. It is also a fact that whereas FFXV has the potential to become a great game, Kingdom Hearts 3 incorporates a storyline that has spanned 7 games. The conclusion of these 7 games in the 8th game is unlikely to ever be underestimated by even the simplest of game developers. The importance to story in Kingdom Hearts far outweighs even the importance of the latest graphics to the FF series of games. With 6 years under its belt and several more to come before KH3 is released, KH3 has the potential to absolutely wow and amaze the fans with its plot, which has been in the making since Kingdom Hearts 1, long before the long development of FFXV. It is for this reason that a believe that KH3 has an edge over the game FFXV

Kingdom Hearts is a series that has spanned 2 main titles and 5 side games, all connecting to the main story arc. This means that Kingdom Hearts fans (which spans in the millions much like final fantasy) have built an immense 6 years of expense towards this final game. It is fair to say that where everyone knows that Final Fantasy XV will be much like the other FF's in its improved graphics, new characters and original storyline, it will not surpass the KH3 in its impact on the players. Everyone expects a story centred on the characters for FF games, it is inevitable, however in Kingdom Hearts, the hopes and dreams of the characters are lived out, and have been lived out throughout several games already, they have accumulated and become imbedded in the hearts of Kingdom Hearts fans all over the world. These emotions have created a reaction, a pent up ball of expectations is about to be unleashed it is simply waiting for a trigger, and that trigger is Kingdom Hearts 3, the end of and era. It is fair to say that these expectations, dreams and hopes for the new games, will increase the gaming experience severalfold for players. To put it simply, we do not have enough time to become too attached to FFXV's characters, they may be new and emotion filled, however the characters of Kingdom Hearts have spanned across a generation to be where they are, and this has gathered a following of a million + fans that all have been waiting for this game for several years, they have become fond of the Kingdom Hearts characters in ways that FFXV will never experience, and it is these emotions which will enrich the gaming experience of KH3 in ways that FFXV cannot beat with simply new graphics and new gameplay.
Korashk

Con

Before I get into arguments I'd like to illustrate to the audience what Square Enix has claimed that Final Fantasy XV (FFXV) will be in terms of story and content.

~~ Story ~~
There is one major aspect that need to be addressed that I personally think is very important. FFXV seems to take a lot of inspiration from Shakespeare's Hamlet. A quote from the work is featured prominently in the trailer and that same trailer also exhibits many aspects of the work such as the likely murder of the main character, Noctis's, father and his subsequent desire for revenge. In addition to this other people have noticed more likely similarities between the two works including how the heroine Stella parallels Ophelia; it is speculated that the bearded man in a suit represents Hamlet's uncle Claudius; and that the three companions Noctis travels with likely represent Rosencrantz, Guildenstern and Horatio [1]. Unfortunately a lot of this is speculation, but it is supported by an official statement by Square claiming that the game shares many similarities with the Shakespeare work. This first factor is significant because Shakespeare is widely considered to be one of, if not the, greatest and most influential writer to ever live. His works are nigh universally beloved and works based on his stories often find success of their own.

In FFVX's case, the story happens in a fantasy world where one country lives in a technological utopia far beyond that of the rest of the world. Noctis is heir to the throne of this kingdom, but one day a rival country invades and steals the crystal power and presumably ruins Noctis's life in doing so and the game will encompass his quest to retrieve the crystal. On the surface it is a very simple story.

~~ Narrative Comparison ~~
One of the major aspects of the Final Fantasy franchise is that while all of the stories are related thematically, none of the major titles are actually connected to one another. I mention this because such is not the case with the Kingdom Hearts (KH) franchise. I present to you readers a video; this video explains the entire time line of KH and is almost an hour long [2]. This video is full of spoilers and once watching it you realize that to understand the story of KH in its entirety you really do need to play every game spanning the PS2, GBA, Nintendo DS, Nintendo 3DS, PSP, and soon the PS4. That is a lot of content to cover and that content has been consistently released for the past 11 years. Needless to say things have gotten complicated. Characters from one game are getting new backgrounds, and world shaking revelations about events in the series happen on a regular basis. Here it is my contention that since KH is a single narrative, it has become overcomplicated. Is overcomplication a bad thing de facto? No, however it does detract from how much a casual consumer can really enjoy something. Let's say I only had a PS2 and therefore could only play KH, KH 2 and KH Re: Chain of Memories. This would leave me woefully ignorant about many important aspects of the game such as the significance of Ventus, Terra, and Aqua; Xehanort's full history and motivations; and what's currently happening with Organization XIII. All of these things are extremely important to the narrative of KH. This kind of confusion simply doesn't happen with Final Fantasy because most of its stories are self-contained, and many of them rank amongst the 100 most well regarded tales in video game history [3], whereas KH didn't make the cut. Before you start blasting that source, I'll explain that it's an aggregate list that compiles its own list based on the lists make by prestigious video game media outlets.

~~ Rebuttals ~~
"The inclusion of flowmotion is something which is unattainable for the Final Fantasy series due to Kingdom Hearts being a hack and slash at heart and Final Fantasy being a turn based game...(due to its inherent characteristics of turned base fights, teams of 3-5 people and the fact that final fantasy is unlikely to become hack and slash)."

My opponent's main contention is how the gameplay of KH' action-based gameplay differs from that of Final Fantasy's which is traditional turn-based or a variation of the same such as the Active Time Battle system. Unfortunately it seems that my opponent did not get the memo. FFXV will, in fact, be an action hack-and-slash game that quite possibly could include the flowmotion system [4][5]. In fact, if you watch the gameplay video I provided you'll notice that the character movies in a way that seems similar to the way that flowmotion works in Dream Drop Distance.
~

"...the worlds of Kingdom Hearts 3 are likely to be incredibly moving and provide hours of gameplay to the player, which is normal for a FF game..."

Here my opponent goes on about the worlds of KH and how they're so great and everything. Then he concludes this paragraph by saying that the Final Fantasy games do the exact same thing. Which is true. In any given Final Fantasy game you can spend hours upon hours just exploring the worlds that the creative team has designed for your pleasure. Just because the worlds of KH have the factor of Disney nostalgia doesn't make them better than the original worlds of Final Fantasy.
~

"Of course, it is fine to simply state fictional theory, but several reasons as to why Kingdom Hearts 3's potential is so much greater than Final Fantasy XV's potential is because it is coming out at least a couple of years after Final Fantasy XV."

With this my opponent brings up a good point. Since KH 3 is being released after FFXV the development team will get to look at FFXV to correct potential problems in KH 3. However I don't give this point much credit due to the fact that both games are currently in development. FFXV's development definitely began before KH 3's own development, but they are both still unfinished games being developed at this point in time. This fact means that even though KH 3 may come out later, the same basic technology is being used in their development and it is doubtful that the team at Square would be able to change much about KH 3 based on the critical reception of FFXV without seriously setting back its developmental progress.
~
"This means that Kingdom Hearts fans (which spans in the millions much like final fantasy) have built an immense 6 years of expense towards this final game."

Yes, the franchises are similar in that they have millions of fans. However, the comparison is disingenuous because one can hardly compare the popularity of a Millennial series to one of the franchises that basically made role-playing games what they are today and has stood the test of time for 26 years. Final Fantasy as a franchise is immensely more popular than KH even with regards to the fact that Final Fantasy is much older [6]. KH is generating more hype because of a vocal minority, but the latest Final Fantasy title is always amongst the most anticipated games of the year.

~~ Conclusion ~~
My opponent's criticisms are either void, or ill-thought. He puts KH on a pedestal without regards for that fact that without Final Fantasy's massive success KH wouldn't exist. He claims that the characters can't generate the same kind of feelings in the player because there's only one game about them. To that I say he must have forgot about Cecil in Final Fantasy IV, Terra in Final Fantasy 6, Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith in Final Fantasy VII, Titus and Yuna in Final Fantasy X and arguably Lightning in Final Fantasy XIII. All of these characters are as beloved, if not more beloved than any of the original characters in KH.

[1] http://tinyurl.com...
[2] Video 1
[3] http://tinyurl.com...
[4] Video 2
[5] http://tinyurl.com...
[6] http://tinyurl.com...
Debate Round No. 2
SevenWarriors1

Pro

SevenWarriors1 forfeited this round.
Korashk

Con

I extend all of my arguments and await my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 3
SevenWarriors1

Pro

SevenWarriors1 forfeited this round.
Korashk

Con

Vote for me then. No reason not to. I thought this could be my first debate in a while, but apparently not.
Debate Round No. 4
No comments have been posted on this debate.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
SevenWarriors1KorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, lame.
Vote Placed by johnlubba 3 years ago
johnlubba
SevenWarriors1KorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Ut- Oh PRO.
Vote Placed by Sargon 3 years ago
Sargon
SevenWarriors1KorashkTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.