The Instigator
Ghosty15
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
roadrider13
Con (against)
Losing
7 Points

Kneeling in the NFL

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Ghosty15
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2017 Category: People
Updated: 7 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 857 times Debate No: 105471
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (13)
Votes (3)

 

Ghosty15

Pro

I believe that NFL players should not be condemned when they kneel during the National Anthem. First round will ONLY BE FOR ACCEPTANCE. Con will oppose my belief. We start in the second round.
Thanks.
roadrider13

Con

I believe kneeling is wrong
Debate Round No. 1
Ghosty15

Pro

I would like to thank the Con for accepting the debate. Please do not back out of the debate by forfeit. Let's try to finish...
So, let's start.
Kneeling in the NFL is not disrespectful.

I strongly believe that nothing is truly disrespectful if you aren't purposely trying to be disrespectful.
Imagine that you have met an alien. You wave hello, but the alien thinks this is disrespectful because in the alien's planet, waving might mean "let's fight." But I think we can all agree that this isn't disrespectful. You weren't trying to upset the alien.
Same case when you insult a friend. You might call them ugly as a joke because you are friends. However, you friend is insulted and thinks you are being disrespectful. All these things mean the same thing. Unless you are purposely trying to be disrespectful, it's just all a misunderstanding.

Now the NFL players aren't trying to be disrespectful on purpose. They love their country. But at the same time, the NFL players are trying to send a message. They want to be treated equally, especially the black NFL players. They think that they aren't treated fairly. There's nothing wrong with this is there?

America is a country with freedom of speech. That's one of the things that make democracy so special and unique. We all have a right to express our opinions.
And that is why you, Con, have the right to disagree with me. I await your reply. Please read what I have written and make rebuttals. Thanks.
roadrider13

Con

I would say your opinion on it not being disrespectful is false. Think of it, men/women sacrificed their own lives for this country. The National Anthem is to respect the fellow man-kind that protect us. I know why they kneel, but if their going to protest, that's fine with me but they shouldn't do it during The National Anthem. It makes men that fought in wars and died look at us from the afterlife and scratch their heads thinking,"Why the f### did others and I sacrifice our self when this is the way we will be treated afterwards."
Debate Round No. 2
Ghosty15

Pro

All right, so you're going to the topic of patriotism.
Well, I think that NFL players are patriotic, no matter if they kneel or not. Look, they are risking life long injuries for football. They are cases of NFL players having severe brain injuries from multiple concussions. The NFL players know all this. But they still play. The players' jobs are to entertain football fans by playing as best as they can. They are playing football, the legendary American game, for the American football fans. Why on earth would that be unpatriotic? They're not trying to be disrespectful. The National Anthem? The American law is just as important as the anthem, probably more. And if the American law is not fully letting people have freedom of speech and equal rights, then does the American Anthem really provoke patriotism in all citizens? If the law doesn't work, the country won't work. Like I said earlier, the NFL players aren't trying to be disrespectful. Some people just think it's disrespectful because they think they are purposely trying to be disrespectful. It's a misunderstanding. Everyone has to find out a way to make everyone happy, but that won't happen until people understand one another. It's just that most of us aren't trying to do that.
roadrider13

Con

I know that they aren't doing it to be rude, but still... The National Anthem is to honor people doing stuff for other people. Like the sports players[like football :-)], soldiers and vets(mentioned in first argument), doctors, lawyers, industrial workers ,the president (not trump), and many other people do stuff to make people enjoy life and be safe.
Debate Round No. 3
Ghosty15

Pro

Yes, I agree with you. The National Anthem means so much to the people of America. And I admit, as I thought about it, my belief in disrespect was partly incorrect. So let's wrap things up, shall we?

The National Anthem is important. But I think we can agree that the law is just as important as the Anthem. And if kneeling in the NFL gets you fired (as Donald Trump recommended people to do), well, that makes kneeling illegal, doesn't it? And that means the law isn't fully functioning. Freedom of Speech. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's important. It's one of the things that makes democracy so unique. You are perfectly allowed to dislike kneeling during the Anthem. But they have a right to kneel.

The NFL players can voice their opinions. They are sending a (somewhat) peaceful message that they are being treated unfairly compared to others. There's nothing wrong with that. Yes, people can see this as disrespecting the flag. But why? They aren't trying to disrespect the flag. That's not their purpose to kneel. I'm sure NFl players love their country.

Yes, the Anthem is there to honor people that have fought for the country. But the law is there to keep it together. And if the president, the leader of the country, is condemning NFL players for kneeling, that's not good. It's like he is saying that law doesn't apply in this kind of situation. Since when does the law not apply in a situation where the PRESIDENT is involved?

The players have a right to kneel. They have a right to say what they want. In the Anthem, it says "O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave." FREE. It just says that in the Anthem. America is a land where people are free to do as they wish, as long as there are laws and consequences. Is kneeling during an Anthem illegal? No!
Home of the brave. Those NFL players are brave, definitely brave. They are shrugging off insults not only from people, but from the leader of the country (president Trump). I don't think many people would be brave enough to do that.

So, I think that kneeling during the anthem is fine. Open your minds people. Try to understand what those NFL players are going through. Freedom of speech. Never forget that. You don't have to like people kneeling during the anthem. But you can't insult them for practicing a right as an American citizen.
Be proud that you are in such a country. Be free and be brave. Try to listen and understand before shutting off your mind to other ideas.

I thank the Con for joining and participating in the debate. I wait for your final reply.
roadrider13

Con

Your right about Trump saying to fire people that kneel, that's why they should protest in another way. Trump is stupid to do something like that but he's the president, we can't really fight. Thought, to summarize, kneeling is rude.
Debate Round No. 4
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ghosty15 7 months ago
Ghosty15
I believe BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 's vote has no reasonable explanation...
But it's just a debate, so it's okay.
:)
Posted by SupaDudz 7 months ago
SupaDudz
@roadrider

you should never surrender when votes aren't going your way

i have had 5 judges in a real life debate once and i was down 2 votes to 0, i then went on a won 3-2. That is my life lesson so never count yourself out.
Posted by SupaDudz 7 months ago
SupaDudz
@roadrider

you should never surrender when votes aren't going your way

i have had 5 judges in a real life debate once and i was down 2 votes to 0, i then went on a won 3-2. That is my life lesson so never count yourself out.
Posted by SupaDudz 7 months ago
SupaDudz
@roadrider

you should never surrender when votes aren't going your way

i have had 5 judges in a real life debate once and i was down 2 votes to 0, i then went on a won 3-2. That is my life lesson so never count yourself out.
Posted by roadrider13 7 months ago
roadrider13
listen bro, you won fair and square
Posted by whiteflame 7 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: breakingamber// Mod action: Removed<

5 points to Con (Conduct, S&G, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Pro had better conduct, spelling, and grammar. While this may be a dumb reason for deciding, Con used a (censored) swear word as part of Round 2, and Pro thanked his opponent after every round. Pro used more convincing arguments because he wrote longer arguments, and acknowledged his opponent during every argument. However, none of the debaters used sources, so neither of them get the point there.

[*Reason for removal*] (1) The voter is required to do some specific assessment in their RFD. For S&G, that requires explaining how the spelling and grammar of a given debater made their argument hard to read. (2) For arguments, the voter is required to specifically assess arguments made by both debaters. Merely stating that there were aspects (such as length and acknowledgements) that the voter liked from one side"s arguments is not sufficient. (3) Conduct is insufficiently explained. The voter is required to do more than simply point to a swear presented by one side and the other side offering thanks is not sufficient reason to award this point. Unless one of the debaters is actively insulting, forfeits a round or violates the rules, this point may not be awarded.
************************************************************************
Posted by SupaDudz 7 months ago
SupaDudz
Reported Vote @ breakingamber

reason: the voter did not explain his convincing arguments enough
Posted by nobleislandbag 7 months ago
nobleislandbag
Alright here's what I think:
Kneeling is not right. However, it was not Trump's job to say that NFL players who kneel should get fired. That's out of his line of power and they reserve their right to freedom of speech.
The kneeling was more of a leftist response to Trump's remarks on Kaepernick's kneeling than a fight against police brutality. Actually, Kaepernick didn't kneel - he sat on his littlebutt throughout the anthem. If the players really wanted to combat police brutality they would be doing something productive. Let's not pollute the atmosphere of the game. Keep politics out of football.
Posted by Ghosty15 7 months ago
Ghosty15
I agree.
:)
Posted by roadrider13 7 months ago
roadrider13
This is a really good debate, we should do another topic when were finished
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 7 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
Ghosty15roadrider13Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con by default!
Vote Placed by SupaDudz 7 months ago
SupaDudz
Ghosty15roadrider13Tied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO gets win in conduct. Dropping F bombs should not be done during a formal debate. Spelling and grammar goes PRO because I saw some mistakes in CON speech that distracted me. PRO wins on arguments. The CON does not answer any of the PRO's claims in Round 4 which is a very crucial part in the debate. Since the answers are left unanswered by the CON, all of the PRO's arguments are valid. Since that is a lot of the PRO's big arguments that are dropped, they are outweighed. Also just saying kneeling is rude will not win you the entire debate overall. You had no evidence of this and no examples.
Vote Placed by Nd2400 7 months ago
Nd2400
Ghosty15roadrider13Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: The reason, i'm going with Pro in this debate. Because he had better arguments, and he made better quick points. As for Con he keep saying kneeling was rude. Sorry that just not good enough to make a convincing agreement. No one had source, so no points were given there. The other reason why i pick pro in this one, is he answer or give better explanation to his arguments...