The Instigator
jonpistone2
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
lastrequest691
Con (against)
Winning
11 Points

Kobe Bryant is better than LeBron James.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
lastrequest691
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/12/2010 Category: Sports
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,409 times Debate No: 11717
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (4)

 

jonpistone2

Pro

Since Michael Jordan left the game of basketball, the league has tried to fill his place with the 'next Jordan'. The two most likely candidates to date have been Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. The debate is altered as seasons pass and more stats are accumulated, though this debate will take place in the April 2010, not the future.

To date, I propose that Kobe Bryant is the player next in line to take Jordan's crown until someone else supersedes him.

While LeBron may have better rankings in some statistical categories, one cannot ignore one of the most important categories; championship rings. I submit, until LeBron has had a chance to earn at least one ring, this debate is nothing more than a way for Cleveland fans to cheer for their 'king' rather than truly find the player to take the place of the great Michael Jordan.
lastrequest691

Con

I do not agree with you. Kobe Bryant is the best NBA player right now but I don't think he can emulate Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan was a team player and his presence was an inspiration to his team. This man changed the way his team played when he stepped his foot on the court.
Kobe on the other hand plays for himself only and he likes it when people depend on him that is why he became a "buzzer specialist." When Kobe is in the game- he lurks around the paint to score before the buzzer. I bet you have seen it many times this season.

Lebron James is not the next Michael Jordan but he is Lebron James. He is in the league of his own and just like you cannot compare aircrafts like F-15e Strike Eagle and B-2 Spirit- its the same way with Lebron and Jordan. They are specialists in their own territory. (Did I spelled it correctly ?)

I am coming back to the point now. I cannot understand how easily you have typed those words, "Kobe Bryant is better than Lebron James." If you are judging these two player's performance on the basis of how many rings they have won then Kobe clearly wins the argument but it's not about the past glory but the present that matters. And I believe that King Lebron will surpass Kobe Bryant someday. Let's admit it that Kobe is the old resident male lion who has been ruling the basketball court for many years but there is a young nomadic lion named Lebron James who is out to get him.

It's just a matter of time when old Kobe has to give way for King James= "The choice of the new generation."
Debate Round No. 1
jonpistone2

Pro

You talked 'emulating' Michael Jordan in the last round. Anyone who watches basketball knows Kobe plays the game and surely shoots the ball in a way which emulates Jordan like no other. Jordan was known for his 'buzzer beater' shots for his team win basketball games and I agree, Kobe is known for the same thing. Jordan wins championship rings and so does Kobe.
It is almost as though you are making my case for me in this last post, talking about all the great points that relate Kobe so well to Jordan.
One point you make which I cannot agree with is the 'team player' comment. Teammates and surely leaders of teams do not act as LeBron has in the past. In 2006 against Atlanta, LeBron actually walked off the court before the final buzzer sounded. And then more recently, in the 2009 playoffs vs Orlando, LeBron just put his head down and walked directly to the locker room without shaking hands with the Orlando Magic.
I agree, LeBron is is own player; a player who is not a leader in a way that Jordan and Kobe are. A person who tried passing the ball with seconds left on the clock rather than taking a game winning shot as a team leader should do (both Jordan and Kobe do this).
LeBron is a much more flashy player, he can dunk the ball a lot stronger and surely he can play the game to fill the stat sheet a ton. But LeBron is not a leader, he is not a champion and he is not yet on Kobe's level...let alone Jordan's.
Unless you have a crystal ball, Kobe, as you admit, is the best player in the NBA, and you cannot simply 'guess' about the future and somehow make that a valid point to prove James is better. As Joe Friday would request of you, "just the facts" please.
lastrequest691

Con

THE SUN RISES FROM THE EAST

People can compare Kobe Bryant with Michael Jordan because Kobe is comparable but King James is incomparable. A player's personality has nothing to do with the Basketball and that is where King James shines- Let the ball do the talking.
King James did not shake hands with the Magic players because he is still immature. King James has a lot to learn and I would like to see King James vs. Kobe somewhere in the future. Remember Kobe was jealous of Officer Shaq after they did a 3peat.

Comparing Jordan and Kobe- Michael Jordan would have won the NBA championship with any team because he is the kind of player who can change everyone around him. I have talked about the "power of his presence" earlier. I do not mean to say that Jordan was not a team player but if you could trade Michael Jordan into Phoenix Suns in 1992 season then Suns would have surely won the championship. That is the kind of player Jordan is.

Now, lets look at Kobe. If he was traded to a team like lets say Jazz then he would not have won all those championships. Kobe needs Lakers and it's not the other way round.

Coming back to the point
If you compared the Lakers squad and Cavaliers squad - You will find a huge difference.
Lakers have superstars in their starting line up. Gasol & Artest are no ordinary players.
Cavaliers have only 2 recognised stars in their lineup – King James & Shaq.

I am not saying that Cavs don't have world class players but other players are average. Cavs still dominates the Eastern Conference and don't think that the Eastern Conference is weak. They have the greatest team in the NBA History- the Mighty Boston Celtics . If another Michael Jordan is to come then look to East not West.

The bottomline- Kobe needs Lakers more than Lakers need him.
Debate Round No. 2
jonpistone2

Pro

I find it comical that you started to use the term 'king james' in this last post because this is not a nick name that he has earned. Rather, it is a nick name that he gave himself in high school and since ESPN published it on their cover, the public uses it as if it was an earned name. Not the case.

You also continue to bring up points that are your personal opinions. When talking about Jordan playing for the Suns or Kobe playing for the Jazz, you make ridiculous assumptions without any proof or fact behind them and that has no place in this debate. We are talking about the best player in the game. We are not talking about players being traded to different teams or who we think will be the best in 2017. I must respectfully request that you limit your opinions and stick to the facts; Kobe and Jordan win championships while James has yet to accomplish such a feat.

You continue to use opinion as you now relate players from both teams on their current rosters. Not to mention that you conveniently left out the 2nd best player on Cleveland, Mo Williams. Other strong players they have include Antwan Jamison and Delonte West. But this isn't the 'name game' its about being the best. And the best player is not immature. You, yourself, have admitted to this immaturity of James and I agree with you. A player cannot be a leader of a team if he is immature. Even though James has now been in the league 6 years, he still does not act line a leader and has not yet taken his team to the championship level.

Kobe had won 3 rings by the time he finished his 6th year and no one was talking about his immaturity for walking off the court before the game ended or by not shaking hands with other players. That may be acceptable to LeBron fans, but look closer and you will see it's simply an excuse for those who are hoping he changes. Kobe is not one to make excuses, he broke his finger and rather than have surgery and miss the season, he had it taped in a way he would not further injure himself. He then had to develop a new way to shoot the basketball since two of his fingers were acting as one, and he was very successful with his new, but altered shot.

Statistics, I agree, are misleading at times. A player averaging two more assists, one more point or a few more triple-doubles does not make him a 'better' player. Many factors, including coaching systems, need to be taken into account when comparing such close statistics.. A few statistics which cannot be ignored though, are those which define greatness. James has made 1 NBA Finals appearance with 0 rings to show for it. Kobe has made 6 appearances to the NBA Finals and has 4 rings to show for it. Kobe plays both sides of the ball (winning 6 All-Defensive team awards in his first 12 seasons) while LeBron is playing 'for offensive stats only' and has yet to win a single defensive award.

We are talking about the best player. We are not talking about who's the younger player, I agree with you, it is LeBron. We are not taking personal guesses as to assume future teams and situations, because we have no way of knowing how those events will play out. We are talking about present day. We are talking about Kobe winning 4 rinks and James winning zero. We are talking a player who, when needed, isn't afraid to put his team on his shoulders as he takes the game winning shot...and usually makes it. A player who is more focused on winning than 'cool' pre-game dance routines.

In the end, LeBron plays basketball to entertain. He dunks with amazing force (even if he does take 4 steps to get to the rim), he has long dance routines before the games with his buddies. He is very amusing on the sidelines and almost becomes a fan of the game he watches. These are all great characteristics for an entertainer and he does it better than almost anyone.

Kobe is the player who plays basketball to win. He is more focused on winning championships and in the end, succeeds. Kobe has scored the 2nd most points in NBA history. In 2002, Kobe scored 81 points and became the only player after 1978 to score more than 70 points. While Kobe is amazing offensively, it cannot be stressed enough that he plays hard on both ends of the court. Like Jordan, Kobe has won NBA Defensive awards as well. Most players in the NBA, including LeBron, use their time on defense to rest and recharge their battery so they can produce a more entertaining offensive statistical display for the fans. This is not the case with Kobe. He is there to win championships and as we all know, defense wins championships.
lastrequest691

Con

You called Kobe the best player in the world- A name he never deserves. Kobe Bryant did not make himself but the Lakers made him the player he is. He has won NBA titles for the Lakers but that does not make him the best player in the NBA history. Even Duncan led Spurs to 4 NBA Championships but he did not get compared to greats like Michael Jordan- It is because he played for Spurs and not Lakers. You will agree with me that Duncan is more of a team player than Kobe.The media make the Lakers and the Lakers made Kobe.

Tim Duncan has won 4 NBA titles and it is equal with Kobe so why is Kobe hyped so much. You see people have this mindset, Lakers are great and they sometimes forget that some of the greatest players who have played in the history of NBA history have not played for the LA Lakers.

Talking about Cleveland Cavaliers, I admit to have missed out Williams, Jamison and West probably due to ignorance of this game. (I am joking) Some players are not born leaders and they have to learn things slowly. James is learning but that has not affected his style of play. James is the only player that comes at par with Kobe Bryant and who is that other player named Anthony well he will retire winning nothing if he does not leave the Nuggets. Hahaha

I agree that Kobe has had more successful career than James but is NBA all about the past or the present. Kobe has matured over this years. Kobe Bryant does not look for excuses after loosing- I agree with that but it is not about the off- field drama but what goes on inside the court. Lebron James is better at dunking than Kobe, I think you will agree with that. In some departments Lebron James is better than Kobe while Kobe seems to excel in other departments.

James is a very good defensive player but he focuses on offense more. Same can be said for Kobe who likes to score everything by himself than let his team mates score. It is not that Kobe is selfish but he does not trust his team mates around him and if someone has to score it has to be him. That is what made him the "buzzer specialist."

Does winning the NBA Championship make any difference ?
I don't think so. Look at players like Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Dirk Nowitzki and Chris Paul. They have never won the NBA Championship but that does not make them ordinary players. Coming back to the point players like Lebron James are still young and they have time. I believe Lebron James will win the NBA title someday in the future but the question is when.

I am going to end my argument using your own words against you.
NBA is like a High School, where Kobe is a nerd and James is a guy who likes to party hard but they are equally good in studies. I leave everything in the hands of the people to see who the best player is "in their opinion." But as for me I believe that James is the better player than Kobe. The same goes out for you.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by zGodMode 4 years ago
zGodMode
I find this debate humorous now, because LeBron had to ditch attempting to earn his own championship by joining Wade and Bosh. Bryant > LBJ
Posted by jonpistone2 4 years ago
jonpistone2
Prince James is one one of the best teams ever formed in the nba says many people in and around the league....they had the best record in all of the NBA....and when he faced boston, he simply did NOT get it done day in and day out.

anyone who wants to switch their vote to Kobe is more than welcome to do so haha jk

but it is worth noting that james is STILL without a ring and only made it to the finals once!!
Posted by Lovebotlass17 4 years ago
Lovebotlass17
Congrats to Lastrequest691. I completely agree with you!!
Posted by lastrequest691 4 years ago
lastrequest691
Thanks you jonpistone2 for giving me this opportunity to debate against you. I enjoyed it.
I would like to thank all those people who voted for me.

Thank You All
Posted by jonpistone2 4 years ago
jonpistone2
CONGRATS LASTREQUEST691
I had lots of fun with the debate....hope we can do another one soon!!
Posted by jonpistone2 4 years ago
jonpistone2
just curious abard....how does kobe entertain more than lebron...have you watched the way lebron (copied off jordan and mainly off KG) throws the chalk in the air to start a game...and how he pretends to take pictures of himself and teammembers before and sometimes during a game...etc...

care to start a second debate? ;) haha
Posted by abard124 4 years ago
abard124
I really don't care between the Lakers and the Cavs, but LeBron is certainly a better player than Kobe. And I disagree that LeBron plays to entertain; at least, not nearly to the scope that Kobe does.
Posted by XimenBao 4 years ago
XimenBao
I wish there had been more arguments about what standard to use for judging, without that I found it really hard to take a stand on "most like Jordan" which somehow morphed into "best."

In the end it seemed like Con conceded a lot of ground in the last round which made me feel comfortable voting Pro.
Posted by jonpistone2 4 years ago
jonpistone2
how so?
Posted by comoncents 4 years ago
comoncents
"To date, I propose that Kobe Bryant is the player next in line to take Jordan's crown until someone else supersedes him."

makes a difference in my eyes.
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Vote Placed by abard124 4 years ago
abard124
jonpistone2lastrequest691Tied
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Vote Placed by sidobagga 4 years ago
sidobagga
jonpistone2lastrequest691Tied
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Vote Placed by comoncents 4 years ago
comoncents
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Vote Placed by XimenBao 4 years ago
XimenBao
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