The Instigator
mas22
Pro (for)
Losing
26 Points
The Contender
Crazy4Steelers07
Con (against)
Winning
32 Points

Kobe Bryant is the best active basketball player and second best in all of NBA.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/25/2009 Category: Sports
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,299 times Debate No: 9046
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (10)

 

mas22

Pro

Currently in the NBA, Kobe Bryant is the best player. No one can match up to him in skill and basketball IQ. The only player better than Kobe overall is Michael Jordan. But, in a few years, once Kobe wins more championships and doesn't get snubbed from winning the MVP (Kobe averages 35.4 pts but NASh wins MVP). Kobe can truly be called the best NBA player ever. Also, if any one wants any proof or stats, I will be more than ready to present the stats to them.
Crazy4Steelers07

Con

First off let me thank my opponent for this interesting debate.

Let me start by saying if I prove one part of the resolution wrong, the resolution is false and you must vote con.

Kobe Bryant, is good, i'll give him that but he is not better than a great like Wilt Chamberlain (http://en.wikipedia.org...). Besides scoring 100 points in a single game, and averaging 50+ points for an entire season, Chamberlain established a domiance and legacy like none other than maybe Micheal Jordan. My opponent has already conceded that MJ was indead better than, well look to SLAM magazines top 75 NBA players of all time, MJ's number one, and Chamberlain's number 2. Kobe Bryant is not better than Wilt ever, end of discussion. Let him score 100 in a single game and then we can talk about it.

Also, Bryant isn't even the best player in the league, with player like Steve Nash, Dirk Novinske, and Lebron James getting MVP's in resent years to contend with Byrant as best player. Also, what about the man behind Kobe's first rings: Shaq? I think many people would think he's better, and Dwight Howard of Orlando is pretty good to. Basically, there is no way Kobe's the best in the league and the 2nd best ever. He's good, but not that good.
Debate Round No. 1
mas22

Pro

I agree with you when you say Wilt Chamberlain is a good player. But, I don't believe scoring more points in one game makes one player better than another. If it is that way, then Kobe is better than MJ because MJ has never scored more than 81 pts. You see it doesn't work like that. We have to see their achievements.
Kobe
4� NBA Champion
NBA Finals MVP
NBA Most Valuable Player
11� NBA All-Star
2� NBA Scoring Champion
7� All-NBA First Team
2� All-NBA Second Team
2� All-NBA Third Team
7� All-Defensive First Team
2� All-Defensive Second Team
NBA All-Rookie Second Team
3� NBA All-Star Game MVP
NBA Slam Dunk Champion
Naismith Prep Player of the Year

Wilt
2� NBA champion (1967, 1972)
4� NBA MVP (1960, 1966-1968)
13� NBA All-Star (1960-1969, 1971-1973)
1� NBA Finals MVP (1972)
7� All-NBA First Team Selection (1960-1962, 1964, 1966-1968)
3� All-NBA Second Team Selection (1963, 1965, 1972)
2� NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1972-1973)
1960 NBA Rookie of the Year
1� NBA All-Star Game MVP (1960)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team

Wilt is more of an offensive minded player while Kobe is an overall player. Kobe is an 11 time all star, Wilt is a 13 time. Clearly Kobe is going to break that. Both of them are 7 time all NBA first team. Kobe is a 7 time all NBA defensive first team while Wilt is only 2 time. Kobe won the all star MVP 3 times, Wilt won it once. You can take a look at the stats for yourself and you will see that Kobe leads in most of the areas. Wilt only leads in a few areas because Kobe's career is not over.

Those are players that you mentioned are good but not good enough. Nash is more of a passer than scorer so you can't compare him to Kobe. Nowitzki can be inconsistent at times with his shot and he is not versatile like Kobe. Only LeBron can match with Kobe, somewhat, but he still hasn't won a Finals and needs to work on his jump shot. Also, I believe that Shaq, cannot win a Finals without the talent like the one Kobe possess. Shaq won 3 titles with Kobe but one without him. But, Shaq had another player with him who was like Kobe, Dwayne Wade. Shaq needed someone else who could also do the scoring with him. Why do you think he didn't win one in Phoenix. There was no other high scoring player. Plus, no one can say that Kobe cannot win a title without Shaq because he just did. Kobe Bryant is the type of player that attracts attention to him. That is why he was able to set up his teammates perfectly in the Finals. Everyone was so focused on him that they forgot the others. That is why Fisher hit the huge 3 in game 4 and also why Ariza was able to score 13 points in the 3rd quarter of that same game. Kobe averaged nearly 6 assists in that series because no one was paying attention to his teammates. Kobe Bryant is the best player in the league and is definitely the second best all time. He's good, and good enough.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...
Crazy4Steelers07

Con

My opponent considers a player has to 'win titles' to be the best. Clearly they don't understand that it is a 'team' sport. And without a team around someone, 1 vs. 5 the best will fall. Wilt, as I mentioned, but up 50.2 points as a SEASON (not just one game) scoring average. If Kobe can beat that I'll eat my hat. Chamberlin was incredible, and you want to talk about Kobe winning all those titles? That has nothing to do with him. He won the first 3 'cause of Shaq (you know the same guy D-Wade used to win a title and the person Lebron is going to try and use this year). It took Kobe and LA almost 10 years to build a team to get back to the finals, and guess what? They only started winning when they wheren't solely relient on Kobe. They had Gasaol and Bindum and a bunch of other guys that where really good. Lebron, with almost zero help from his team, almost beat the Magic. And the Magic where a lay-up and free throw away from beating the Lakers in the Finals. Kobe is no 'god on wood'. He's a decient player, an all-star but nothing more. He is not Micheal Jordan, or Wilt Chamberlien. He may not ever be the best player of his generasion. Also, if you look at all the stats you posted about Wilt and Kobe, wilt won almost every stat. And seriously, do u even need to play defense if u, individually are putting up 50 a night?????
Debate Round No. 2
mas22

Pro

I never considered that one has to win a title to be the best. Nash, Lebron, Nowitzki, Iverson, and the Minnesota KG had not won a title but were still considered to be top players. Wilt only averaged 50.2 points a game because he didn't have any other high scoring player on his team. The Lakers still rely on Kobe. Kobe is the sheer force that drives his team. Like I said earlier, Kobe attracted so much attention that he was able to set up his team mates perfectly. Gasol played a good game but he was averaging a little bit below his normal scoring. Bynum played horrible. He quickly got into foul trouble and wasn't effective offensively. Fisher only hit that 3 because everyone was expecting Kobe to take it. Also the Magic were not lay-up and free-throw away from winning the finals. The would only have tied the Lakers. It is true that Wilt is leading in a couple of the stats that I posted but that is only because Kobe's career is not finished yet. He still has a good 5 maybe 6 years left in him. You said that a player doesn't have to play defense just because he is averaging 50 points a game. Basketball has 2 sides to it. Offense and Defensive. Players have to play both. There is no excuse to lack of from one side just because you are doing good on the other side. Many players get drilled when they are not playing good defense. Look at Kobe, when he led the league in scoring 35.4 pts. a game, he didn't give up on defense. He played it. He played it so well that he got elected defensive 1st team. No matter how many points a person scores never gives them an excuse to take a breather during defense. Defensive is just as important as offensive. For Jordan, Kobe, Kareem, Bird, KG, Dr. J, Magic, West, Russell, and Lebron. It is also important for Wilt.

I believe that I indicated exactly why Kobe is considered the best of his generation. I was able to answer back every sentence that he said going against Kobe so please vote PRO.

I had a great time debating with you on this subject. I would like to thank you for accepting this debate and may the best debater win.
Crazy4Steelers07

Con

They're is no denying that Kobe Bryant is a good player, however he is not the second best player of all time. They're is no way you can vote him better then Wilt Chamberlain. Also you have to look at all the other players in NBA history which are so good, like Lebron JAMES. If you want to look at what players may do with the future of there careers. Lebrons Future is more promising than Kobe.
Look at the 50 best players in NBA history, (http://www.nba.com...), how can you put Kobe Bryant 2nd on a list like that?
http://bleacherreport.com...
The Bleacherreport has Bryant as the 9th best player of all time. Behind the likes of Chamberlien, Jordan, Erven 'Magic' Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and Larry Bird.
You have to vote Con, because Bryant is obviously not the 2nd best player of all time.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by lakeshoww 5 years ago
lakeshoww
kobe is 2nd all time. wilt was dominant because the game of basketball back then was not all the big men. so thats why russel and wilt were just plain dominant so thats an easy time for them. take a look at current defenses, theyre much tougher yet kobe still manages to get shots in the hoop. he is very skillfull like MJ. they are the 2 best to play
Posted by stubsmagee 5 years ago
stubsmagee
http://nickandmikeradio.blogspot.com... will tell you alot about the nba
Posted by ddrmadness 6 years ago
ddrmadness
It took Kobe and LA almost 10 years to get back to the finals? Let's see...Kobe and Shaq's last final was in 2004, and then Kobe made it back against the Celtics in 2008. Hmm...2008 - 2004 = 4...in what universe is 4 years almost 10? Even if you look at the distance between finals they won (2002 and 2009) that's still only 7 years, which is a bit of a stretch to call it almost 10.
Posted by LBJMVP6 6 years ago
LBJMVP6
Wilt may be the most dominant player ever to play, and YES that is partially because of the era he played in. He was a 7' 2" Center in the '60's and early '70's. Most starting Centers weren't taller than 6' 10" and the height just dropped off even more from that. Wilt was the best offensive Center at the time and no team really had the option of double teaming him. Therefore his numbers were inflated just because of having no size competition. The 100 points in a game is a joke as the warriors fouled the other team to get the ball back quicker, and the pace of the game back then was faster. I would say Jordan's 69 was more impressive than Wilt's 100. Wilt averaged 50 points in a season and no matter who else was on the team 50 points A NIGHT is an amazing thing. He also brought down 22 rebounds a night as a career average. Wilt was the most dominant player ever for the era he played in. All of that said, Bill Russel. 11 Championships, 5 MVP's, he never got any Finals MVP trophies but maybe that is because the title is named after him, and he still gathered 5 rebounding titles while playing against The Stilt (he averaged only .4 rebounds a night less than the other Center in the league who was over 4 inches taller), and there was A reason why Wilt Chamberlain; the single most dominant player of his ere ever; only holds 2 NBA titles. Michael Jordan is widely known as the greatest player ever, but he did not play against anyone of his own caliber, and did not do anything until he had help. I am not saying Bill Russel didn't have help, because he did. But there were SO many levels between him and his teammates, far more than between Jordan and Pippen. And it was Pippen who came in and elevated the Bulls. It was Russel who had others brought in and elevated them to the next level. Maybe Jordan could have won 8 straight, had he not quit, but he didn't win them, and Russel did. Who is this Kobe Bryant guy?
Posted by chw42 8 years ago
chw42
There is no way on earth you could compare Chamberlain and Kobe. They played in way different eras. The entire argument was bad to begin with. If anything, it should be something along the lines of Kobe vs. LeBron.
Posted by snelld7 8 years ago
snelld7
Mr. Victorious: Such comments as the one you just posted, shouldn't even be allowed topost. The post button should disappear when things like what you just said,pop up.

For one, you most likely can't dunk. For two, if you could, you couldn't like they can. For three, Kobe has the record for most 3's in a game. For four, that was wilts fav. move! Dunking and hooking is ALL he did (and was only able because nobody could compete with him back then.) If he was alive today, he might not even be the 2nd best center in the league.

Hunton711: IDK, it would be a good game.

The Instigator: I'd challenge you on the premise of Kobe not being better than Lebron, would you accept?
Posted by Hunton711 8 years ago
Hunton711
lebron would get pwned by k-man
Posted by Mr.victorious 8 years ago
Mr.victorious
ya but now the game takes 1/2 as much skill. It takes no talent to cram a ball through a freaking hoop. Larry bird, and wilt chamberlain could both wreck kobe in any game, any court, ant time. And you know what else? Lebron James is just as good.
Posted by Alex 8 years ago
Alex
I agree with Pro completely.

Crazy4steelers07-Your argument about Wilt Chamberlain is simply false, Wilt played back when the league was not nearly as fast paced and not nearly as competitive as the today league that Kobe dominates.

Thus far i have not seen a good argument by Con.
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by knucklepuk 6 years ago
knucklepuk
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